AMD delays the delay -Kaveri- is its last competitive market gone?

Haserath · 11-07-2012, 12:30 AM

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/06/a...gain-2014-now/

If so, that would be it for AMD. Haswell wins in everything. Nothing in the low power market. Servers are way behind.

GPU is barely hanging on as well, and will go down with the CPU division.

AMD is laying in the coffin. Without some magical reversal of performance, there is no way they will compete in a competitive way to Intel, or even Nvidia at this point(CUDA market, not consumer market).

What's left for them? Where will they go?

Eeqmcsq · 11-07-2012, 01:23 AM

It's time to find another hobby, like SSDs or something. It'll be all Intel for the foreseeable future. Sigh.

blastingcap · 11-07-2012, 01:24 AM

ARM. But ARM is lower-margin and crowded. I hope they can spin off ATI before it's too late.

grimpr · 11-07-2012, 01:29 AM

Another AMD doom & glood thread, always returns back like a zombie.

MarkLuvsCS · 11-07-2012, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimpr

Another AMD doom & glood thread, always returns back like a zombie.

And like most zombies, the risen dead lack the meat on the bones to make them whole

.

boxleitnerb · 11-07-2012, 01:51 AM

Well they can shrink Trinity to 28nm and make some small improvements maybe. 28nm is bulk, so that wouldn't be too good for frequency/power, would it?

-Slacker- · 11-07-2012, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haserath

What's left for them? Where will they go?

These look more like rhetorical questions designed to get a certain reaction out of readers, rather than honest questions. I actually don't see the point of your thread, in any capacity, unless ... you know ... it's meant to extract a certain reaction.

Also semiaccurate/10.

BD231 · 11-07-2012, 02:00 AM

Why now is it not within AMD's reach to produce results similar to the k7 at its induction with a different arch?

NTMBK · 11-07-2012, 02:39 AM

The only possible benefit I can see coming from this is if they ditch FM2. They need more memory bandwidth for their APUs desperately- a DDR4 socket FM3 would let them really push the size of their on-die graphics. (Preferably backwards compatible with socket FM2, like they did with AM3, so that Vishera users don't get abandoned.)

Haserath · 11-07-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingcap

ARM. But ARM is lower-margin and crowded. I hope they can spin off ATI before it's too late.

I thought that, but with other companies creating custom designed cores, AMD would have to compete with that and Intel with Atom.

They don't have the money or time to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BD231

Why now is it not within AMD's reach to produce results similar to the k7 at its induction with a different arch?

That's a big if. Plus, wasn't the k7 mostly an architectural revamp to allow higher clocks? I don't think any AMD generational jump has been big enough to make AMD equivalent to Intel at this moment, but, of course, they would only need to be close enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxleitnerb

Well they can shrink Trinity to 28nm and make some small improvements maybe. 28nm is bulk, so that wouldn't be too good for frequency/power, would it?

Hard to say. I don't think they'd be able to change Trinity much even with the extra space, and I don't know what bulk will do to their arch after they've been on SOI for so long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTMBK

The only possible benefit I can see coming from this is if they ditch FM2. They need more memory bandwidth for their APUs desperately- a DDR4 socket FM3 would let them really push the size of their on-die graphics. (Preferably backwards compatible with socket FM2, like they did with AM3, so that Vishera users don't get abandoned.)

Seems like a long time to wait though... They really need steamroller/GCN out ASAP on their APU.

Backwards compatibility would also require DDR3/4 controllers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slacker-

These look more like rhetorical questions designed to get a certain reaction out of readers, rather than honest questions. I actually don't see the point of your thread, in any capacity, unless ... you know ... it's meant to extract a certain reaction.

Also semiaccurate/10.

If you weren't attached to the company, you wouldn't 'react'. It's easier to tell logical answers from emotional ones if you throw in a little bait.

They are somewhat rhetorical. Sort of to get people thinking about it without necessitating an answer, but I do like to speculate.

Charlie has been Pro-AMD for years, but even he seems to have given up hope. Whether this is true or not, only SA knows(edit: and AMD :p), but if true, this puts AMD in a worse position than I thought.

AtenRa · 11-07-2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haserath

If so, that would be it for AMD. Haswell wins in everything.

I don't expect even Haswells GT3 iGPU to overcome Trinitys iGPU performance.

Haserath · 11-07-2012, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtenRa

I don't expect even Haswells GT3 iGPU to overcome Trinitys iGPU performance.

Depends on the market you look at.

Mobile has them closer to each other than desktop, where iGPU performance is more important.

Haswell will be more enegy efficient and competent enough to compete with Trinity. Kaveri would've been enough to be sure AMD had the lead, but it's hard to say now.

Kaveri was also supposed to be the beginning of HSA and it's fully combined memory space.

I wonder if console developement has something to do with this...

AtenRa · 11-07-2012, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haserath

Depends on the market you look at.

Mobile has them closer to each other than desktop, where iGPU performance is more important.

I will have to disagree, in Mobile, at the same Wattage the performance difference is large in favor of Trinity. GT3 iGPU will not have less power consumption than HD4000 GT2.

also,

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/i...rchitecture/12

Quote:

Overall performance gains should be about 2x for GT3 (presumably with eDRAM) over HD 4000 in a high TDP part. In Ultrabooks those gains will be limited to around 30% max given the strict power limits.

30% max for the low power models, thats not enough to overcome Trinity(perhaps in the 17W arena)

nemesismk2 · 11-07-2012, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimpr

Another AMD doom & glood thread, always returns back like a zombie.

I agree 100% because all these doom anandtech users are getting boring now

Olikan · 11-07-2012, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingcap

I hope they can spin off ATI before it's too late.

+1

jones377 · 11-07-2012, 04:35 AM

Me thinks Charlie's article is a reaction to getting outscooped by donanimhaber.com, of course he would never admit that himself. I've noticed he does that alot. Some other site delivers a scoop, and the next day Charlie posts an article that says "Of course I knew that all along but couldn't publish it bla bla"

Denithor · 11-07-2012, 06:41 AM

Consoles? Maybe?

As long as it's not too little too late the consoles could give AMD a much-needed shot in the arm.

Unfortunately I hate to think about what's going to happen to PC gaming when all the devs are shooting for is A10-ish performance...

ShintaiDK · 11-07-2012, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denithor

Consoles? Maybe?

As long as it's not too little too late the consoles could give AMD a much-needed shot in the arm.

Unfortunately I hate to think about what's going to happen to PC gaming when all the devs are shooting for is A10-ish performance...

There are essentially no money for the suppliers to consoles. Its razorthin margins. Having Xbox360 and Wii didnt exactly shower AMD in gold.

ShintaiDK · 11-07-2012, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTMBK

The only possible benefit I can see coming from this is if they ditch FM2. They need more memory bandwidth for their APUs desperately- a DDR4 socket FM3 would let them really push the size of their on-die graphics. (Preferably backwards compatible with socket FM2, like they did with AM3, so that Vishera users don't get abandoned.)

DDR4 aint gonna be mainstream affordable until 2015.

Yuriman · 11-07-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denithor

Consoles? Maybe?

As long as it's not too little too late the consoles could give AMD a much-needed shot in the arm.

Unfortunately I hate to think about what's going to happen to PC gaming when all the devs are shooting for is A10-ish performance...

On the bright side, my 5 year old HD4870 should be good until the next console generation.

Yuriman · 11-07-2012, 07:32 AM

If AMD goes under and gets parted out or sold, will Intel be able to keep producing x86-64 CPUs?

ShintaiDK · 11-07-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriman

If AMD goes under and gets parted out or sold, will Intel be able to keep producing x86-64 CPUs?

Yes.

aaksheytalwar · 11-07-2012, 07:39 AM

Why can't amd focus on video cards and mobile dev?

Yuriman · 11-07-2012, 07:42 AM

I was thinking along these lines: if AMD gets bought out, the cross licencing agreement is broken. The company that buys AMD will not be able to produce x86 CPUs. Is not the same true of Intel? They would need to renegotiate with AMD's new owner as I'm sure all of their modern CPUs use some AMD IP. What am I missing?

nehalem256 · 11-07-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriman

I was thinking along these lines: if AMD gets bought out, the cross licencing agreement is broken. The company that buys AMD will not be able to produce x86 CPUs. Is not the same true of Intel? They would need to renegotiate with AMD's new owner as I'm sure all of their modern CPUs use some AMD IP. What am I missing?

Do you really think Intel would not have been smart enough to protect itself in the licensing agreement for the potential of AMD going bankrupt?