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Old 11-06-2012, 12:14 AM   #26
Jaskalas
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Question is. Has any one here ever changed there position or mind due to another's post or is this all just good reading material.
Yes. This forum is particularly geared at showing you the failings of the Republicans, though I find it is weaker at attacking the Democrats.

There has been enough information to help me decide that Neocon did not mean Conservative. This was a big leap for me, because back in 2004 I would take it to mean Republican, Conservative... me. I personalized the term Neocon as a direct attack on my beliefs.

Yet the more I came to understand it, and the more I watched Bush abandon our soldiers to play policeman on the streets of Muslim countries... the more I realized Neocon was my enemy. Those were not my beliefs. This revelation festered in 2006.

It became worse when they showed me how Bush grew government, how he spent and sent us further into debt. How he championed stimulus spending, and then pre-socialized the economy as it contracted in 2008. This forum helped me realize that Bush was no conservative. Through him Neocon was defined, the modern GOP became clear - they are my enemy.

This was proven time and again by the nominations of McCain and Romney. Two very moderate folks who are just like Bush. I no longer identify myself as Republican. They have for too long betrayed my values. Later today I will oppose them for a second time.

My journey to become Libertarian may not have occurred without the knowledge in P&N, however difficult it was to transverse in hostile waters. There are still useful nuggets to find here.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:26 AM   #27
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Now, it's mostly the Trayvon case which has pushed me in this direction, seeing how vile and hypocritical the left can be.
Vile and hypocritical?

A stoner just wanted to go home with his Skittles and iced tea, when a vigilante judged him based on racial stereotypes, stalked him, started an altercation with him, and then shot him when he found he was losing. How does this call for no investigation? What is hypocritical about liberals having a problem with the apparent fact that the cops accepted the narrative of a violent, unprovoked assault because Trayvon was a black male youth? No real investigation, just open and shut -- "The black guy did it, he's dead, so we can all go home now."
If Trayvon had been white and Zimmerman black, Zimmerman would've been charged with murder on the spot with the cops focused solely on proving his guilt. Equal justice is what we're asking for.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:39 AM   #28
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I won't get into the Trayvon thing here too deeply but I encourage you to come post in the Trayvon thread. Hope you do.

All I'll say here is I think your understanding of what took place is far off from the facts and that he was arrested and a thorough investigation was done initially.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:48 AM   #29
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All I'll say here is I think your understanding of what took place is far off from the facts and that he was arrested and a thorough investigation was done initially.
He was detained for 5 hours and then released -- released before they even had a name for the victim. Sure sounds like a "thorough investigation" to me, given that Zimmerman's 911 call and the fact that he admitted to killing Trayvon are enough to support probable cause for murder.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:20 AM   #30
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He was detained for 5 hours and then released -- released before they even had a name for the victim. Sure sounds like a "thorough investigation" to me, given that Zimmerman's 911 call and the fact that he admitted to killing Trayvon are enough to support probable cause for murder.
I'm going to respond to this post in the Trayvon thread, just giving you a heads up here.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:28 AM   #31
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Formulating your own opinions in words, and having them challenged is a crucible of thought for an honest man.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:17 AM   #32
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Not a bad question. I think in most cases peoples opinions become more entrenched when they post in an environment like we have here at ATP&N where instead of debate or discussion you get troll attacks and ridicule. There are posters on both sides that provide links and information and can be relied on to make pretty decent arguments for their point of view, but they're dreadfully outnumbered.
Personally I've changed my mind about several minor issues and learned some great stuff posting here.

(BTW, I don't include myself as one of the reasonable posters)
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:14 AM   #33
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I've had many opinions change over the years being here. Mostly going from a more liberal stance to a more fiscally conservative stance. But sadly there really isnt a party for a socially liberal person and a fiscally conservative that also believes in regulations, person such as myself.

To me if youve been here long enough and ACTUALLY have an open mind youre bound to change a stance on something.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:29 AM   #34
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Formulating your own opinions in words, and having them challenged is a crucible of thought for an honest man.
The conservatards here can't challenge anything.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:51 AM   #35
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I would say that I have adjusted some of my opinions do to what others have posted. I also learn some things, since sometimes I don't know the right question to ask to get the answer I want.

However, asking the wrong question can sometimes get someone to point out the right question.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:20 AM   #36
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I'm a lifelong liberal democrat until this year. I'm certainly not a republican now, but discussions I've had here and elsewhere have pushed me much further toward the conservative end of the spectrum.

Even now I don't know how I'm voting tomorrow, I don't particularly care. I will vote though. I think most likely I'll vote for Gary Johnson, if Ron Paul were still in I'd definitely vote for him. I may go with Romney... Obama, is a less and less likely possibility. But, I haven't ruled out voting for him again.

Now, it's mostly the Trayvon case which has pushed me in this direction, seeing how vile and hypocritical the left can be. Still, I just wanted to say that some peoples' opinions are swayed by online discussions. It's rare, admittedly.

Good night, off to play Halo 4 a bunch.
No offense, but you don't sound like much of a "lifelong liberal democrat" to me.

Both sides have issues that you will not like. If you can't admit that, you are a fanboi. Personally, I don't like democrats views on guns. I don't like the idea of handouts. In an alternate universe I am sure I would also lean to the more fiscally conservative viewpoint.

However, shouldn't we all be voting on the candidate we think will best lead our country? (its up to you to decide on what values you think are the most important, and maybe the handling of Treyvon M case is that value) but it sounds to me like you are nitpicking straws on something that means very little in the grand scheme of things.

What are your feelings on Bush sending troops into harms way in Iraq? What about Obama sending troops into Pakistan without their consent?

Really? Your determining factor on who will best lead our country is decided on other peoples viewpoints on a situation that NOBODY has any concrete proof of what actually conspired? You sound like a woman picking a car based on cupholders. That makes about as much sense.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:27 AM   #37
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Yes, it's a shit forum. We have a core of conservatards whose stupidity is unbounded, and they do nothing but post a continuous stream of unsupported assertions. Without moderator support to hold people to facts and logic, there's no point in trying to actually argue as they will just overwhelm you with stupidity.

You may want to correct yourself, but more people that post on this forum are more democratic than republican.

By a decent margin too.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:31 AM   #38
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Question is. Has any one here ever changed there position or mind due to another's post or is this all just good reading material.
It's not even good reading material. These sites come under the heading of entertainment/wasting time. I'm retired and hate most TV, so I entertain myself by posting on these sites. It's fun.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:33 AM   #39
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You may want to correct yourself, but more people that post on this forum are more democratic than republican.

By a decent margin too.
"...more democratic..."

No way. I think what you meant to say is there are more Democrats than Republicans. Today's Democrats are far from being "more democratic".
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #40
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Absolutely, there are quite a few in here think they're changing the world one thread/post at a time.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:35 AM   #41
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I don't come here with the intent on changing the opinion of others. I use this forum to flesh out my own ideas and strengthen my own opinion.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:43 AM   #42
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"...more democratic..."

No way. I think what you meant to say is there are more Democrats than Republicans. Today's Democrats are far from being "more democratic".
Yes, my bad.

There are more democrats on this forum, then republicans. That can be seen on many threads if you count who backs who in a very hardcore biased stance.

Look at the meme thread. Or there was one a romney/obama or repub/demo thread in which it literally was close to 2.5:1 democrat: Republican on here.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:44 AM   #43
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Absolutely, there are quite a few in here think they're changing the world one thread/post at a time.

Well If I make a person laugh. brighten their day, they go and do something a little extra because of the better mood, and ripples to big changes.

Totally possible.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #44
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Yes, my bad.

There are more democrats on this forum, then republicans. That can be seen on many threads if you count who backs who in a very hardcore biased stance.

Look at the meme thread. Or there was one a romney/obama or repub/demo thread in which it literally was close to 2.5:1 democrat: Republican on here.
Well it is a tech forum first and foremost so most here are fairly smart and/or educated. Thus Democrat
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:58 AM   #45
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I'm going to respond to this post in the Trayvon thread, just giving you a heads up here.
There is no point in discussing anything with DS. His mind is absolutely closed to any idea that he doesn't agree with, and his idea of debate is insults and name calling. In short, he's an intellectual zero trying to promote himself with bravado rather than facts.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #46
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I mostly read here, post occasionally.
I think this forum is an amplification of the thoughts and beliefs of the country.

I think our politics and government is systemically corrupt. There are a few here that agree and are not bat shit crazy.

I find it both highly entertaining and somewhat sad that the majority of people bicker endlessly on issues that pale in importance to the fact lobby and money dictate nearly everything.

I find this forum a byproduct of propaganda and a great example of successful division and diversion.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:47 AM   #47
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No.
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