Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > Video Cards and Graphics

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-05-2012, 01:49 PM   #226
VulgarDisplay
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,835
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobisuruncle54 View Post
With regards to APU memory bandwidth, couldn't MS use GDDR5 for an APU instead of DDR3 if that's the case?

I'm also curious as to whether or not it will have turbo clocks, which could be quite an interesting feature in a console.
I doubt they would have turbo clocks because they will not want performance to be that unpredictable. Someone who has a hot house will get worse performance? Highly doubt that.
VulgarDisplay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #227
nonameo
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,917
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferzerp View Post
The only console ever to use x86 was the original xbox (and that wasn't chosen due to technical or cost merits either, but more due to time to market convenience).
The FM Towns Marty used an AMD 386 CPU
nonameo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:48 PM   #228
Haserath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 729
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay View Post
Yeah, I would imagine they would have some type of RAM on the CPU die to give the GPU's the bandwidth they need. Honestly, I could care less if the new consoles are weak because I could see it driving developers back to the PC in droves.
Weaker consoles=Cheaper consoles=More sales=More developers
Haserath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 03:42 PM   #229
Bobisuruncle54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay View Post
I doubt they would have turbo clocks because they will not want performance to be that unpredictable. Someone who has a hot house will get worse performance? Highly doubt that.
That's a good point, but with 28nm chips and a decent cooling solution it could easily be done to a useful but not potentially hardware damaging degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haserath View Post
Weaker consoles=Cheaper consoles=More sales=More developers
Consoles are already being used for TV and films more than they are for games, so a console without a significant leap in fidelity and capability while costing more than the current generation will only make consumers shrug and stick to what they have.

The difference between the current gen and the next has to have that "wow" factor, otherwise consumers simply will not buy. IMO the reveal of the Samaritan Demo, Star Wars 1313 and Watch Dogs have all been tests to gauge consumer reaction.

Last edited by Bobisuruncle54; 11-05-2012 at 03:45 PM.
Bobisuruncle54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:09 PM   #230
NTMBK
Diamond Member
 
NTMBK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobisuruncle54 View Post
With regards to APU memory bandwidth, couldn't MS use GDDR5 for an APU instead of DDR3 if that's the case?

I'm also curious as to whether or not it will have turbo clocks, which could be quite an interesting feature in a console.
Potentially, or maybe DDR4. It's going to be the next big standard on the PC side, so prices will only drop over the console cycle.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
I like my VRMs how I like my hookers, hot and Taiwanese.
NTMBK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 05:26 PM   #231
BenSkywalker
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,955
Default

Quote:
Of course they benefit from having a similar development environment, it is not a direct benefit mind but it is there. Some games are very poor on PS3, take GTA4 and Red Dead Redemption as an example, that sort of difference can affect sales and perception of the console. If the hardware and development environment is similar then 3rd party games are going to perform roughly equally on both consoles.
Not seeing any benefit whatsoever. Go on to any console neutral forum, they will agree that the PS3 is the more powerful hardware despite some ports not being ideal. In any realistic sense the differences you brought up are fairly minor, I have GTA4 and RDR on the PS3, my son has them for the 360, not a very big difference between them.

Quote:
My thinking is that a semi custom APU could probably blow most people here away in terms of power.
I would wager very heavily against that. If anyone launches next gen with an APU they are dead out of the gate. There is no reason to upgrade from a PS3 at least without a major increase in graphics power. We can do all the other media tasks already(a 360 with a BRD would have a comparable situation).
BenSkywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 05:54 PM   #232
Bobisuruncle54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post
Not seeing any benefit whatsoever. Go on to any console neutral forum, they will agree that the PS3 is the more powerful hardware despite some ports not being ideal. In any realistic sense the differences you brought up are fairly minor, I have GTA4 and RDR on the PS3, my son has them for the 360, not a very big difference between them.
More powerful in terms of its theoretical peak output, but in reality most games perform better on the 360. That is a fact that has now been observed many times and it is a trend that can be seen across developers. Crysis 2, GTA 4, Sleeping Dogs are just three examples that immediately come to mind.

How powerful the PS3 is becomes irrelevant if it cannot be tapped practically.
Bobisuruncle54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 08:22 AM   #233
NTMBK
Diamond Member
 
NTMBK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,422
Default

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6770/s...ardware-inside

8 Jaguar cores and 7850 level graphics, all on one die, with GDDR5 memory. Looks like I wasn't far wrong!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
I like my VRMs how I like my hookers, hot and Taiwanese.
NTMBK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 09:17 AM   #234
PrincessFrosty
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,417
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesku View Post
If true then it should help ensure good default performance in PC game titles during that generation of consoles, especially so in direct ports.
Having said that, the more compatible the systems the more locked together they are, in the short run that might give benefits to the PC users, but long run it's going to be another disaster...in 3-4 years time when PC hardware is approaching an order of magnitude faster we'll still be seeing games written for old console hardware.

The low frequency of updates for the consoles is going to kill the high frequency of the PC platform which generates so much of the innovation and progress made in gaming.

PC gamers are proving to be frustratingly short sighted about this, another round of "consolized" games is probably going to end gaming for me as serious hobby, and take away with it all of the cash I would normally dump into PC hardware.
__________________
Intel 2600k @ 4.9Ghz || ThermalRight TRUE Spirit 140
16Gb PC3-12800 || 2x MSI GTX580 Twin Frozr II in SLI
Dell 3007 WFP-HC 30" || BenQ XL2420T 24" 120hz

Last edited by PrincessFrosty; 02-21-2013 at 09:59 AM.
PrincessFrosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:54 AM   #235
Midwayman
Platinum Member
 
Midwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessFrosty View Post
PC gamers are proving to be frustratingly short sighted about this, another round of "consolized" games is probably going to end gaming for me as serious hobby, and take away with it all of the cash I would normally dump into PC hardware.
Its not the gamers. Its the game devs. It doesn't make financial sense to develop exclusively for PC since there simply aren't enough people compared to consoles. While they can add higher detail to PC versions there are unfortunately going to be compromises in UI designed for a joystick.

If you don't want any more consolized game titles you might as well pack up your toys now.
__________________
If you disagree, hit alt+f4 to reply.
Midwayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #236
f1sherman
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,863
Default

PS4 Killzone: Shadow Fall







http://www.gamersyde.com/news_ps4_ki...-13810_en.html
f1sherman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #237
Lonbjerg
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4,426
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1sherman View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
Lonbjerg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:46 AM   #238
The Alias
Senior Member
 
The Alias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
looks effing amazing for a console game and how do you know what fps rate it's running at ?
The Alias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #239
Nintendesert
Diamond Member
 
Nintendesert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LOLorado.
Posts: 7,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM


Based off a YouTube video. I'm laughing right now.
__________________
TFP4Life!
Nintendesert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:04 PM   #240
csbin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 264
Default

Video compression



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
csbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:05 PM   #241
Ajay
Platinum Member
 
Ajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
Yes, except I think they are using some AA (2x?). I assume this video is from late alpha/early beta . The Devs and artists are playing with a new toy, so I'm not surprised at the lower quality and lack of detail. FPS will be optimized, there's probably a bunch of debug code in the version we saw. If they get it right, could be a nice looking game. 8 GB of GDDR5 is pretty good, IMO, assuming it's at 5 GHz+ and has a wide bus (256b ?). Consoles are pretty lean, so there's allot more performance that can be uncorked than from the same hardware in a PC.

This game: http://youtu.be/EzAyvqWwGCs (Drive Club) looks very interesting conceptually. Looks like a winner, if the execution is right. Not a bad start for PS4.
__________________
Asus P6T V2 Deluxe Ci7 970 @ 4.2GHz w/HT, Corsair H100i, 2x240GB SanDisk Extreme RAID0, 2x WD VR 300GB RAID0, MSI GTX 680 PE @ 1110MHz, 12GB G.Skill Riojaws DDR3 1600, Corair 850HX, Corsair 800D case. Win7 x64 Ultimate. Dell U2412M.
Heatware

Last edited by Ajay; 02-22-2013 at 12:25 PM. Reason: added drive club
Ajay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #242
Phynaz
Diamond Member
 
Phynaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendesert View Post
Based off a YouTube video. I'm laughing right now.
Two of us
Phynaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:31 PM   #243
RussianSensation
Elite Member
 
RussianSensation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 14,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShintaiDK View Post
We havent exactly seen any Xbox360 game run better on AMD GPUs than nVidia. Or the other way around with PS3.

Plus I doubt that statement got anything to do with PS4 or Xbox720. Those consoles are also still too far out in the future.
Those consoles are launching by end of this year. The CPU inside PS4 is a custom APU with ~ HD7850 and 8 Jaguar cores. He is obviously talking about the consoles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
That's the first number of games. Wait until 4-5 years into PS4's life before you judge the console's potential. Let's see a $500 PC produce the level of graphics of PS4 in 2-3 years from now. Heck I bet any $ that a $500 PC will not be able to play games like Witcher 3 and beyond at the same visuals as the PS4. $500 PC automatically means a weak i3 (useless for games like Crysis 3) or a low-end FX4300 and some weak GPU like HD7870. On the PC that won't last 2 years once next gen console games arrive.
__________________
i5 2500k | Asus P8P67 Rev.3 | Sapphire Dual-X HD7970 1150/1800 1.174V CFX | G.Skill Sniper 8GB DDR3-1600 1.5V
SeaSonic Platinum 1000W | OCZ Vertex 3 120GB + HITACHI 7K1000.B 1TB | Windows 7
Westinghouse 37" 1080P | X-Fi Platinum | Logitech Z5300E 5.1

Last edited by RussianSensation; 02-22-2013 at 12:34 PM.
RussianSensation is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:44 PM   #244
Olikan
Golden Member
 
Olikan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,825
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendesert View Post
Based off a YouTube video. I'm laughing right now.
3

btw... youtube runs at 30 fps
__________________
Quote:
I must be dyslexic, because every time I look at your name I see OilKan!
Olikan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #245
kami
Lifer
 
kami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 17,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
Not sure if serious...


Quote:
That's the first number of games. Wait until 4-5 years into PS4's life before you judge the console's potential. Let's see a $500 PC produce the level of graphics of PS4 in 2-3 years from now. Heck I bet any $ that a $500 PC will not be able to play games like Witcher 3 and beyond at the same visuals as the PS4. $500 PC automatically means a weak i3 (useless for games like Crysis 3) or a low-end FX4300 and some weak GPU like HD7870. On the PC that won't last 2 years once next gen console games arrive.
$500 PC? More like a $1000+ PC. I think launch games on PS4 will look as good as a current mid-range gaming PC. We can't look at the GPU in the PS4 and think that it equals the same GPU in a PC. I know that you know this, but its something a lot of PC gamers get confused with. They don't realize that PC games don't have "direct access to the GPU metal" as they call it and have other overheads that consoles don't.

It would be like trying to run Uncharted 3 on a Windows PC featuring a Geforce 7800 with 256MB VRAM and 256MB system ram from back in 2005/2006 (comparable GPU power to the PS3). Good luck with that.
__________________
3770k @ 4.4GHz, Asus P8Z68 Pro Gen3, 16GB DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Windforce OC GTX 780, Crossover 27QD 27" (2560x1440 IPS), Asus Xonar STX, 500GB Samsung 840 SSD, 12TB in storage drives, Corsair C70 case
kami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:54 PM   #246
cplusplus
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kami View Post
Not sure if serious...




$500 PC? More like a $1000+ PC. I think launch games on PS4 will look as good as a current mid-range gaming PC. We can't look at the GPU in the PS4 and think that it equals the same GPU in a PC. I know that you know this, but its something a lot of PC gamers get confused with. They don't realize that PC games don't have "direct access to the GPU metal" as they call it and have other overheads that consoles don't.

It would be like trying to run Uncharted 3 on a Windows PC featuring a Geforce 7800 with 256MB VRAM and 256MB system ram from back in 2005/2006 (comparable GPU power to the PS3). Good luck with that.
It seems like, from everything I've read, the difference between using DirectX on Windows and the "to the metal" coding of things like libgcm on Playstation (and the Xbox equivalent) is similar to the difference between writing code to do the same thing in Assembly and Java. Sure, they'll both end up with the same result, it's just that one is going to get there a lot faster and more efficiently than the other.

Last edited by cplusplus; 02-22-2013 at 02:20 PM.
cplusplus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 02:06 PM   #247
DrBoss
Senior Member
 
DrBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Low FPS, low textures, blurry, in need of AA and AF....and a lot of other things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TptSxiFRAM
If you are going to shit on the game, at least link to the 1080p asset.

I was pretty impressed myself.

__________________
.
.
Intel i7-2600k @4.4ghz (1.27V, offest -.05) |
Thermalright Archon | Shin-Etsu X23-7783D | ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3 | MSI GTX 670 Twin Frozr IV Power Edition | 8gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 | Corsair 850HX | Intel X25-M 160GB | WD Caviar Black 500gb | 2x WD Caviar Black 640gb | Pioneer BDR-206 | HT Omega eClaro 7.1 | Eizo SX2761w | Fractal Design Define XL

Onkyo TX-SR705 | 2x Klipsch RB-81 | 2x Klipsch RB-51 | Klipsch XL-23 | Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX

Last edited by DrBoss; 02-22-2013 at 02:10 PM.
DrBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 03:59 PM   #248
alexruiz
Platinum Member
 
alexruiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SE Michigan, USA // EdoMex, MEXICO
Posts: 2,250
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianSensation View Post
Let's see a $500 PC produce the level of graphics of PS4 in 2-3 years from now... $500 PC automatically means a weak i3 (useless for games like Crysis 3) or a low-end FX4300 and some weak GPU like HD7870. On the PC that won't last 2 years once next gen console games arrive.
I think you mean HD7770
alexruiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:41 PM   #249
Dark Shroud
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,575
Default

I'm just glad Sony went with 8GB of ram, GDR5 no less. I was praying they would and constantly had people telling me it wasn't going to happen.

This is good for AMD, Sony, & the gaming industry in general.

New engines coded properly to make use CPU multi-threading and more than 4GB of ram.
__________________
Core i7 2600K / Noctua NH-U12P SE2
Sapphire AMD HD 6970 2GB / Dell SP2309w @ 2048x1152
Samsung 830 128GB & WD Black HDs
LiteOn BD-ROM, Plextor DVD-RW with Light Scribe
Gigabyte P67A-UD3-B3 / Corsair Vengence (2 x 4GB) 1600 (8-8-8-24)
Cooler Master HAF 932 / Corsair HX1000 watts
Killer 2100
Dark Shroud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.