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Old 11-01-2012, 09:05 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
So you managed to provide support for all his points while insulting him at the same time. You should be banned until you learn some manners. The 7850/7870 is still the better buy, which is exactly what RS argued.
Sorry but absolutely disagree.ATF is not a school and banning a member for just expressing a different opinion is stupid.Now considering the allegation I consider RS neither a shill nor a stupid fan-boy.I believe Ben is wrong regarding that.But personal attacks is nothing new at atf.I see it all the time from both the camps.I believe we should have a thumbs up/down system to rate a post,if it's rating is low it will be hidden.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
So you managed to provide support for all his points while insulting him at the same time. You should be banned until you learn some manners. The 7850/7870 is still the better buy, which is exactly what RS argued.
If people were banned for manners, the only person left posting here would be Tweakboy.



Can you imagine that? Of course, no offense Tweakboy, damn now I'm a get banned too
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:28 PM   #103
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100%
138%

$140
$170

~$1.40 Pirce/performance
~$1.23 Price/performance

But saying 60% is reasonable? Really? We are talking about a 14% price/performance edge. Anyone pointing that out has a reasonable and well founded point. 60%? Nothing reasonable or logical about it.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:13 AM   #104
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I'll say it again, read the review you posted. That 32% overclock only nets 20% performance increase. It's 50% more performance for 21% more money.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:52 PM   #105
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50% more performance for 21% more money which is more than pretty good I must say.
Overclocked 7870 fails to quite make it to 50%, but hey, as long as AMD throws money at people, lies are OK.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...orce_gtx650ti/

(45.71% for an overclocked 7870 vs 650Ti)

$230 for a 7870, $140 for a 650Ti- 64% more money for 46% more performance. Honest person- the 7870 is clearly worse then the 650Ti from a price/performance perspective.

60% for the 7850? Yeah, still waiting on that.

Last edited by BenSkywalker; 11-04-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:07 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by AnandThenMan View Post
This will become the best selling Kepler card. Most Nvidia users don't care about performance they care about the name.
Thats a big broom you are using to insult everyone with a Nvidia GPU.....

Are you looking for a bite?
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:51 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by badb0y View Post
Waiting on Radeon 8xxx/GTX 7xx .

At this rate I'll be waiting for a long time. In other news I just ordered 2 2007FPs to go with my 3007WFP for some PLP Eyefinity action .
I didnt think PLP was possible in either Surround or Eyefinity?...Is that sorted now?
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:00 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post
Overclocked 7870 fails to quite make it to 50%, but hey, as long as AMD throws money at people, lies are OK.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...orce_gtx650ti/

(45.71% for an overclocked 7870 vs 650Ti)

$230 for a 7870, $140 for a 650Ti- 64% more money for 46% more performance. Honest person- the 7870 is clearly worse then the 650Ti from a price/performance perspective.

60% for the 7850? Yeah, still waiting on that.
To be fair you also chose the review with the very best 650Ti overclocking results by a decent margin. Of the 6-7 other reviews I looked at the average was more like 1150Mhz rather than the 1228Mhz achieved by OCC.




According to TPU, a 7850 is 34% faster than a 650Ti at stock.






In TPU's Zotac review, an overclocked 650Ti (925/1350 -> 1100/1870) was worth 25% more performance. The overclocked 7850 (860/1200 -> 1190/1295) was worth 27% more performance. Both in BF3.

So the 7850 is closer to 40% faster rather than 60%. With the cheapest 650Ti at ~$147 and the cheapest 7850 at ~$168 AR, price/performance still easily goes to the 7850. 14% higher price for 36% more performance.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:46 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post
We will accept that as fact(ignoring your cherry picking, but you have a job to do, we understand).

And the 650Ti can't overclock at all, oh wait, that is an ignorant bald faced lie if someone said that now isn't it?

So we have a ~38% performance difference for 21% more money. Cheerleading that like it is the second coming is *exactly* what Rollo would do, actually, he would also try and use the overclocked numbers for one board and ignore overclocking on the other, oh wait....

Is the 650Ti a POS card? Yep. The 7850 is a little bit better then a POS, but that's all it is.

GTX 650 Ti runs at 925 Mhz. HD 7850 runs at 860 Mhz. At stock HD 7850 is close to 40% faster. With a full 256 bit memory system and 32 ROPs the HD 7850 performance scales better than GTX 650 Ti with overclocking. These are facts. Let me provide data below to prove it. Also once you go for very high settings in demanding games with 4X MSAA the GTX 650 Ti with its crippled 128 bit memory bus just cannot come close to the HD 7850 scaling.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...review,16.html

BF3 1920 X 1200 4X MSAA

GTX 650 Ti - 22
HD 7850 - 32

This is before the 12.11b drivers. With the 12.11b drivers the gap widens . With overclocking even more . It gets quite ugly. For all you know a HD 7850 (1.25 Ghz) will thrash the GTX 650 Ti (1.25 Ghz) by more than 50% in the most demanding games with MSAA

HD 7850 (1.2 Ghz) matches the last gen flagship card GTX 580 which cost 500 bucks. thats a phenomenal amount of performance for a 200 dollar card.

In fact a HD 7850 (1.2 Ghz) matches a GTX 660 (1.2 Ghz) .

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...review,21.html

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...review,27.html

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...erence,21.html

GTX 650 Ti - 30
GTX 650 Ti OC - 33
HD 7850 - 42
HD 7850 (1 Ghz) - 45
GTX 660 - 47
HD 7850 (1120 Mhz) - 49
GTX 660 (1241 Mhz ) - 50

You clearly see the gap between GTX 650 Ti and HD 7850 widen from 40% to 50% with overclocking.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/...ocking_review/

The GTX 660 scaling is badly affected by Nvidia power target restrictions. the reduced ROPs affect performance scaling at clocks beyond 1 Ghz.

Nvidia's GTX 650 Ti would be a good card at 130. It would be an excellent card at 120 bucks. But at 150 bucks its horrible. HD 7850 on the other hand is excellent at 200 bucks.

Last edited by raghu78; 11-05-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:46 AM   #110
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To be fair you also chose the review with the very best 650Ti overclocking results by a decent margin.
Typed in 650Ti overclocking, it was the first result in Google <shrug>

Quote:
So the 7850 is closer to 40% faster rather than 60%.
That is reasonable, doesn't seem to quite hit 40% average but it is close, although not a big fan of AR pricing in general you could save a few bucks on the 650Ti you have listed if you were actually going to use the rebate(different 650Ti on NE).

Still waiting to see the 60% from team red's Rollo

Quote:
You clearly see the gap between GTX 650 Ti and HD 7850 widen from 40% to 50% with overclocking.
No, I don't across any set of benches. I linked OC 7870 to 650Ti numbers and they didn't hit 50% on average. There are some benches where the 7870 is close to 70%, others where it is close to 15%. On average, the 7870 overclocked failed to hit 50%.

Last edited by BenSkywalker; 11-05-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:11 AM   #111
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No, I don't across any set of benches. I linked OC 7870 to 650Ti numbers and they didn't hit 50% on average. There are some benches where the 7870 is close to 70%, others where it is close to 15%. On average, the 7870 overclocked failed to hit 50%.
Thats horribly incorrect.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...rmance/23.html

1920 x 1200 perf summary

GTX 650 Ti - 50
HD 7870 (12.11) - 81

With 12.11b HD 7870 is keeping up with the more expensive GTX 660 Ti.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphic.../Battlefield-3

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphic.../Battlefield-3

BF3 1920 X 1080 Ultra 4X MSAA

GTX 660 Ti - 57.1
HD 7870 - 55.8
GTX 650 Ti - 28.4

In the most demanding games and settings HD 7870 is close to 2x the perf of GTX 650 Ti . Its not even funny.

Last edited by raghu78; 11-05-2012 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:07 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post

Still waiting to see the 60% from team red's Rollo

Calling someone ''Rollo'' is an insult of the highest kind even if you put a smiley next to it.

Anyhow this card is for any one who wants the Nvidia specific features like CUDA and PhysX in that price range.

Or as a dedicated physX card on it's own.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post
Typed in 650Ti overclocking, it was the first result in Google <shrug>



That is reasonable, doesn't seem to quite hit 40% average but it is close, although not a big fan of AR pricing in general you could save a few bucks on the 650Ti you have listed if you were actually going to use the rebate(different 650Ti on NE).

Still waiting to see the 60% from team red's Rollo



No, I don't across any set of benches. I linked OC 7870 to 650Ti numbers and they didn't hit 50% on average. There are some benches where the 7870 is close to 70%, others where it is close to 15%. On average, the 7870 overclocked failed to hit 50%.
How you manage to get away with your disgusting insults day in and day out are a mystery; and you calling someone else Rollo is hysterical. You come off like the biggest Green fanboy that I've seen in years. Lets face it, the 650 is weak compared to the 7850. If anything a 660 is a for better purchase for any gamer.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:29 PM   #114
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You come off like the biggest Green fanboy that I've seen in years.
nVidia has totally screwed up this generation, none of their parts are remotely close to viable replacements to their prior generation when looking at a full node drop and they are clearly overcharging for mid tier parts putting them against high end AMD offerings and charging us as much as if they were selling us a monolithic die.

I have stated this *repeatedly* on this forum. The difference? The AMD paid shills will argue against reality, the nVidia paid shills won't.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:53 PM   #115
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How you manage to get away with your disgusting insults day in and day out are a mystery; and you calling someone else Rollo is hysterical. You come off like the biggest Green fanboy that I've seen in years. Lets face it, the 650 is weak compared to the 7850. If anything a 660 is a for better purchase for any gamer.
Like I said, guy should be banned until he learns some manners. Any other forum he would have been long gone.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:31 PM   #116
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Like I said, guy should be banned until he learns some manners.
If people spread ignorance, I will confront it in a manner that ignorance deserves. What am I supposed to do? Apologize that the paid viral marketers have to work harder? Not likely. I had no problem calling Rollo out when he was here either, he just had the sense not to argue with me

BTW- Still waiting on those 60% numbers.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:14 AM   #117
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Imho,

60 percent may represent a best case example -- a golden 7850 core OC compared to a poor GTX 650 ti OC. Can see around 40-50 percent at times.

As long as one is consistent - for example: Very pro price/performance and flexibility for over-clocking, tools, scaling and over-all OC prowess -- don't feel one is a shill and very unfair.

Russian was very adamant about price/performance being poor on a substantial and significant node and arch at the start -- and now is bullish on AMD's price/performance and over-clocking strengths. Russian is consistent and has strong convictions.

May disagree with him at times but admire his passion, consistency, strong convictions and his posts are a testament of this. So he feels nVidia's sku's are priced too high? He makes a great case but the key is the market, over-all, decides and one can't blame a company for trying to maximize revenue.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:54 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
So you managed to provide support for all his points while insulting him at the same time. You should be banned until you learn some manners. The 7850/7870 is still the better buy, which is exactly what RS argued.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
Like I said, guy should be banned until he learns some manners. Any other forum he would have been long gone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post
If people spread ignorance, I will confront it in a manner that ignorance deserves. What am I supposed to do? Apologize that the paid viral marketers have to work harder? Not likely. I had no problem calling Rollo out when he was here either, he just had the sense not to argue with me


BenSkywalker actually said bad things about Nvidia and their GTX 6xx generation - especially GTX 650 Ti being overpriced for those who don't plan on buying AC3. Let's leave it at that, guys. I agree with him 100% on this one (which all of you guys probably also agree upon):
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenSkywalker View Post
nVidia has totally screwed up this generation, none of their parts are remotely close to viable replacements to their prior generation when looking at a full node drop and they are clearly overcharging for mid tier parts putting them against high end AMD offerings and charging us as much as if they were selling us a monolithic die.

I have stated this *repeatedly* on this forum. The difference? The AMD paid shills will argue against reality
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