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Old 11-03-2012, 11:05 PM   #51
Roland00Address
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Originally Posted by Phokus View Post
It's really unconscionable that apple could put such inferior crap at such a high price out there and people will buy it because they're too non-technical to understand that the screen is inferior to what's available out there.
It is the software people pay more for the software for it is an apple
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:07 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by stlc8tr View Post
I'm willing to bet that Google's margin on the Nexus 10 is considerably lower than Apple's iPad margins.

Anyway, the original premise under debate was whether or not Apple could sell a retina iPad Mini for $329 while maintaining their margins. If they could actually do this today, why in the world wouldn't they?
Same reason the mini has 512 mb memory the iPhone 5 has a lower res screen yet has 1 GB of memory
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:18 PM   #53
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How am I trolling
I believe that would be this remark...

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Originally Posted by grkM3 View Post
The screen in the mini ipad is JUNK
Have you seen it? Have you used it? Are you just parroting what you've seen other people say?

I've actually used the iPad Mini, and the screen looks fine. Although, I'm rather used to the iPad 2, but I'm also fairly used to my old iPhone 4S and current iPhone 5 -- both "retina" devices. In addition, the people standing on the other side of the table at the Apple Store couldn't stop raving about how good it looked. I've only seen one opinion from a person in the thread that actually owns one, and it appears that no one else that has spewed such vitriol has actually even used it.

What use is a technical sub-forum when the post content is too trashy to be worthy of P&N?
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Roland00Address View Post
Same reason the mini has 512 mb memory the iPhone 5 has a lower res screen yet has 1 GB of memory
This reason seems to have something to do with maintaining margins.
Cheapest, fastest, lightest, sharpest etc. can't all happen in one product. Additionally, software is a bigger driving force than even hardware in determining a products value. Intelligent people will pay $500 for a Surface or Vivio Tab RT because Windows RT is awesome. Other people will pay $330 for an iPad mini because they want an iPad mini. Crap resolution is just one tiny trade-off that is part of the overall package.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:36 AM   #55
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Obviously I don't truly know the answer to this, but if they have the software algorithm in rMBP using OSX to downscale a higher resolution image to a slightly lower resolution screen, it is likely possible to apply the same (or similar) algorithm in iOS to make this work the same way or in a slightly different way to fit an intermediate screen with the same 4:3 aspect ratio, since adjusting for aspect ratio would no longer be an issue.
To my knowledge they have to stick to 1024x768 or pixel doubled on the ipad for consistency of the UI elements (touch buttons, etc). It's a design decision they did with iOS. That's also the reason why the PPI on the Iphone 5 is the exact same as the 4s and 4 - they had to create a new resolution (requiring an update in all apps) for the longest screen (1136x640), so they chose the path of least resistance: adding pixels to the height of the Iphone but keeping the width exactly the same.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:53 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Aikouka View Post
I believe that would be this remark...



Have you seen it? Have you used it? Are you just parroting what you've seen other people say?

I've actually used the iPad Mini, and the screen looks fine. Although, I'm rather used to the iPad 2, but I'm also fairly used to my old iPhone 4S and current iPhone 5 -- both "retina" devices. In addition, the people standing on the other side of the table at the Apple Store couldn't stop raving about how good it looked. I've only seen one opinion from a person in the thread that actually owns one, and it appears that no one else that has spewed such vitriol has actually even used it.

What use is a technical sub-forum when the post content is too trashy to be worthy of P&N?
Yes I have seen it and used it,it is not sharp and at all looks like youre looking at a big iphone 3gs,its dull and not sharp at all.

There are tablets on ebay for under 300 that have a better screen
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:15 AM   #57
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This reason seems to have something to do with maintaining margins.
Cheapest, fastest, lightest, sharpest etc. can't all happen in one product. Additionally, software is a bigger driving force than even hardware in determining a products value. Intelligent people will pay $500 for a Surface or Vivio Tab RT because Windows RT is awesome. Other people will pay $330 for an iPad mini because they want an iPad mini. Crap resolution is just one tiny trade-off that is part of the overall package.
I agree (about the software and the culture of apple that causes people to buy apple) but they could have had the price $10 dollars higher to have 1 gb of ram and keep similar margins. The reason it has 512mb of memory is planned obsolescence. People that bought the ipad mini now are going to buy the next version 18/24 months from now instead of 36 months from now due to the size of ram making the ipad feel slower due to what ever super app we are using 18/24 months from now.

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Old 11-04-2012, 07:29 AM   #58
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I would also pay the same $500 for the same spec as the newest iPad.
I like the smaller form factor much much more.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:58 AM   #59
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I would also pay the same $500 for the same spec as the newest iPad.
I like the smaller form factor much much more.
Same here. I've found the current 7" tablets to be just a tad too small. The 7.85" form factor would have been perfect for me if it did have higher specs.
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:32 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by jiffylube1024 View Post
To my knowledge they have to stick to 1024x768 or pixel doubled on the ipad for consistency of the UI elements (touch buttons, etc). It's a design decision they did with iOS. That's also the reason why the PPI on the Iphone 5 is the exact same as the 4s and 4 - they had to create a new resolution (requiring an update in all apps) for the longest screen (1136x640), so they chose the path of least resistance: adding pixels to the height of the Iphone but keeping the width exactly the same.
It can still be rendered at 2048x1536, same as the retina ipad, in order to fit a final output of e.g. 1600x1200 via existing downscaling method available in rMBP, if they can incorporate it into ios with minimal penalty on power or performance.


Since I'm pretty confident that apple will eventually come up with a retina iPad mini, they will have to solve this one way or another, either by fitting a 2048x1536 screen onto the iPad mini or figure out how to effectively address the scaling issue in ios to allow an intermediate resolution with the same aspect ratio
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:24 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by brian0831 View Post
It can still be rendered at 2048x1536, same as the retina ipad, in order to fit a final output of e.g. 1600x1200 via existing downscaling method available in rMBP, if they can incorporate it into ios with minimal penalty on power or performance.


Since I'm pretty confident that apple will eventually come up with a retina iPad mini, they will have to solve this one way or another, either by fitting a 2048x1536 screen onto the iPad mini or figure out how to effectively address the scaling issue in ios to allow an intermediate resolution with the same aspect ratio
That requires a whole hell of a lot of GPU power to do all that scaling, so at that point, just put in a 20*15 display. The iPad Mini is using larger cuts of the same panel process as the phones. It has the same PPI as the iPhone 3GS, and when they bump it to Retina, they'll just cut out larger, 7.85" panels from the same sheets that they get their iPhone displays from.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:52 AM   #62
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That requires a whole hell of a lot of GPU power to do all that scaling, so at that point, just put in a 20*15 display. The iPad Mini is using larger cuts of the same panel process as the phones. It has the same PPI as the iPhone 3GS, and when they bump it to Retina, they'll just cut out larger, 7.85" panels from the same sheets that they get their iPhone displays from.
It looked like a fairly high quality screen to me. Do you have any source for this? Maybe it is the optical layers on top of the LCD but my 3GS looks pretty low quality even ignoring the pixel density.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:45 AM   #63
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It looked like a fairly high quality screen to me. Do you have any source for this? Maybe it is the optical layers on top of the LCD but my 3GS looks pretty low quality even ignoring the pixel density.
They've probably improved the manufacturing process for the screens, but it's not a big stretch to imagine that they're simply cutting larger screens given that they're the same PPI as was used by older iPhones. So while they might have incorporated a few new tricks to get the display to look better in general, it's still using the same underlying screen as was used in iPhone's prior to the 4.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #64
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They've probably improved the manufacturing process for the screens, but it's not a big stretch to imagine that they're simply cutting larger screens given that they're the same PPI as was used by older iPhones. So while they might have incorporated a few new tricks to get the display to look better in general, it's still using the same underlying screen as was used in iPhone's prior to the 4.
^This.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:39 PM   #65
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They've probably improved the manufacturing process for the screens, but it's not a big stretch to imagine that they're simply cutting larger screens given that they're the same PPI as was used by older iPhones. So while they might have incorporated a few new tricks to get the display to look better in general, it's still using the same underlying screen as was used in iPhone's prior to the 4.
That would make a lot of sense (not really) if LG didn't manufacture the 3GS screen while Samsung manufactures the Mini's screen.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:51 PM   #66
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It's really unconscionable that apple could put such inferior crap at such a high price out there and people will buy it because they're too non-technical to understand that the screen is inferior to what's available out there.
Screen's not great, but iOS's software & accessory ecosystem is about 5 times better than Android. In the end while the screen's important, but when have a screen that's not terrible, just not as good. If the apps + accessories are that much superior, I'm going with the apps. Who cares about the best screen ever if the apps suck and look like they were designed by a 12 year old in an intro to C++ class. As for the high price, the app support makes the price reasonable imho. I'd spend $400 on a device with amazing apps, over one that was $99 and even had better hardware if it lacked the apps. I've used a few Android tablets, and the app selection was so piss poor that at any price point I'd find them overpriced.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #67
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The Nook HD is 1,440x900 while iPad retina is 2048x1536.

If Apple could sell an iPad Mini with retina display for $329 and maintain the same margin, why wouldn't they do so? What possible reason would they have to hold back such an important upgrade?
Out of ideas for what to do next, possibly. The next mini will be a small iPad 3, and the one after that will be a small iPad 4. Minis will be one generation behind their larger counterparts.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #68
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People seem to think that the decision was only down to putting a retina screen or not...

The reality is, that in order to put a retina screen in there, even if possible, would mean a hell of a lot more compromises.. The screen would have consumed a lot more power, it would have needed a lot more gpu power, drawing more heat, and needing even more power, which would have lead apple to increase the battery capacity, making it thicker... And keep in ming that they need to be able to produce something like 15 million units before christsmas...

I would love to see if people would have been able to accept such compromises.. I certainly wouldn't.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:22 PM   #69
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Well, I have spent some time with it and I like the form factor a lot. Many times when I would play games on my iPad 3 I would have to stretch my fingers to press buttons but with the iPad mini it's much easier to press those buttons on a smaller screen. An example is Dead Space, I just downloaded the game to test out the performance but I ended playing a lot longer because it was so much easier to handle than the iPad 3 lol.

Battery life is iPad-like, I can go days without charging this sucker. I have gotten more used to the screen but my monitor is 2560x1600 and my phone has a retina display so every time I use my other devices and go back the iPad mini the screen pixel density still bothers me. Overall with the robust ecosystem, the build quality, the battery life, and the form factor I am very happy with the iPad mini. If it had a better screen I would say it was the best 7 inch tablet in my opinion but I can't give it that title knowing the type of tablets Amazon and Nook are putting out.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #70
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That would make a lot of sense (not really) if LG didn't manufacture the 3GS screen while Samsung manufactures the Mini's screen.
Also, the only thing the 3GS and iPad Mini have in common is PPI. The screen technology is completely different, one is IPS, the other isn't, and the screen on the iPad Mini is FAR thinner. Cutting screens from the same raw materials into different sizes plays no part in this.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:52 PM   #71
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I think the overall device itself is great, but I'm totally willing to wait another year for an A6-based version and hopefully by then they'll have something worked out with the backlighting so it doesn't take so much juice to light up a 2048 display.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:40 PM   #72
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Same here. I've found the current 7" tablets to be just a tad too small. The 7.85" form factor would have been perfect for me if it did have higher specs.
I have to applaud you. While I don't doubt your opinion, it just seems a little too convenient. Oh 7" tablets, I am only about 90% satisfied with your size. If only .... oh thank you Tim Cook! 7.85" is the perfect size.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #73
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I have to applaud you. While I don't doubt your opinion, it just seems a little too convenient. Oh 7" tablets, I am only about 90% satisfied with your size. If only .... oh thank you Tim Cook! 7.85" is the perfect size.
I think it has more to do with the aspect ratio.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #74
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I have to applaud you. While I don't doubt your opinion, it just seems a little too convenient. Oh 7" tablets, I am only about 90% satisfied with your size. If only .... oh thank you Tim Cook! 7.85" is the perfect size.
Yea kinda like those guys exaggerating about the difference between 4" and 4.65" lol.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #75
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I think it has more to do with the aspect ratio.
Yes and no. All you need to do is take a look at the comparisons between the iPad mini and the Nexus 7 in landscape mode to see that one can see a lot more of a website in a little bit larger print making it easier for me to view with less need to zoom or scroll.
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