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Old 11-03-2012, 12:38 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
oh well... http://translate.google.com/translat...-241127-8.html

Micro stutter STILL sucks on AMD crossfire solutions so even with higher FPS the game does not feel as smooth.
Yes AMD 7xxx crossfire solutions is not as smooth without help from a 3rd party program which does not change the original point, we could then run on to power, heat, noise and the amount of slots it takes up, which still does not change the original point and how much it sucks is a matter of opinion to the individual.
So it seems that no one has rebuttaled my point and have decided to move on other points, so that concludes my part.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by wand3r3r View Post
If you read a couple pages further the Radeon Pro tool seems to reduce that.

http://translate.google.com/translat...-241127-8.html

Regardless, isn't this enough of the OT stuff? I have a feeling most of the people whining about the 690 and 7990 don't have them and never will. It's a topic for another thread though.
I think this is RIGHT on topic. What better place to talk about improvements in microstutter for Nvidia cards than an Nvidia driver thread?
The talk of the 690 belongs here as this was featured to utilize frame metering. The 7970x2 (aftermarket) was mentioned because it is a multi-gpu solution that has yet to offer a smoothness akin to Nvidia's in gaming, so the comparison was being offered.
So, if you're quite finished policing the content of this thread, I'd like to get on with the discussion. Thanks.
By the way, that article translates so poorly that it isn't very certain exactly what the reviewers "context" or "message" is. At least for me.

However, this portion was quite clear to me indeed. It was on the page you linked to:

"We see very clearly that the GTX 690 SLI solution even without adaptive VSync still works better and delivers above all, a more homogeneous than the Crossfire systems vemögen to offer. The much greater differences in the individual render times per frame resulting optically a visible unrunderen course to perceptible stuttering and frame drops. We even see that the SLI solution reaches quite to the quality of a single-card solution, but without achieving quite."
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:43 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Keysplayr View Post
I think this is RIGHT on topic. What better place to talk about improvements in microstutter for Nvidia cards than an Nvidia driver thread?
The talk of the 690 belongs here as this was featured to utilize frame metering. The 7970x2 (aftermarket) was mentioned because it is a multi-gpu solution that has yet to offer a smoothness akin to Nvidia's in gaming, so the comparison was being offered.
So, if you're quite finished policing the content of this thread, I'd like to get on with the discussion. Thanks.
Aye aye sir. (Salutes)

The topic was is the 7990 a real card, someone claimed it isn't as it's a custom card. That is not the scope of an nvidia card thread. Personally I don't care much but arguing about something like that is a waste of space.

Did this driver even reduce microstutter? I didn't notice that point, not that I looked for it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:48 PM   #204
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Aye aye sir. (Salutes)

The topic was is the 7990 a real card, someone claimed it isn't as it's a custom card. That is not the scope of an nvidia card thread. Personally I don't care much but arguing about something like that is a waste of space.

Did this driver even reduce microstutter? I didn't notice that point, not that I looked for it.
Doesn't matter if it reduced microstutter or made it worse. Point is there isn't any reason we can't discuss this.
And if you feel this thread is a waste of time, then ignore it and move onto something that interests you. IMHO.
Thanks for understanding though.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:48 PM   #205
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I think this is RIGHT on topic. What better place to talk about improvements in microstutter for Nvidia cards than an Nvidia driver thread?
The talk of the 690 belongs here as this was featured to utilize frame metering. The 7970x2 (aftermarket) was mentioned because it is a multi-gpu solution that has yet to offer a smoothness akin to Nvidia's in gaming, so the comparison was being offered.
So, if you're quite finished policing the content of this thread, I'd like to get on with the discussion. Thanks.
By the way, that article translates so poorly that it isn't very certain exactly what the reviewers "context" or "message" is. At least for me.

However, this portion was quite clear to me indeed. It was on the page you linked to:

"We see very clearly that the GTX 690 SLI solution even without adaptive VSync still works better and delivers above all, a more homogeneous than the Crossfire systems vemögen to offer. The much greater differences in the individual render times per frame resulting optically a visible unrunderen course to perceptible stuttering and frame drops. We even see that the SLI solution reaches quite to the quality of a single-card solution, but without achieving quite."
From [H] http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/...3gb_sli_review
"We've beaten this topic into the ground in the past, but it has been a while since we brought it up. There is a smoothness to SLI we just can't put in words. We know for a fact that NVIDIA uses an algorithm that smoothes "frametime" in SLI. We don't know what it’s called, or even how it works, but we know it exists, and we know NVIDIA employs some special sauce when it comes to SLI. It is something that can only be felt, as you play a game, it is not something that shows up in a framerate over time graph. So what you see is AMD CFX winning in framerate, but not winning in frametime or overall game smoothness. When you sit down, and play games on SLI, the gaming experience just feels smoother and more responsive at lower framerates compared to AMD CrossFireX. With AMD CrossFireX we find that the faster the framerate, the smoother it feels, and we often need higher framerates with AMD CFX for it to feel the same smoothness that NVIDIA SLI feels. So, in all our testing in this article this is why we say that technically AMD 7950 CFX is faster in framerate, but in terms of the actual experience, SLI wins hands down. Gaming with SLI, especially at NV Surround resolutions, just feels better, period. While this is subjective, we are fairly sure that most of our readers would easily identify this in a "Pepsi Challenge" scenario. We are still looking for ways to illustrate this frametime advantage to you in a proper "scientific" way. As it stands now, all fully reliable avenues to us in this regard are simply too resource intensive to simply "add on" to our reviews. It is also worth expressing that some data collection methods you have seen developed elsewhere are simply not "correct," and we want to be as accurate as possible before exposing data on this topic. NVIDIA has promised upcoming tools for illustrating this, but we have yet to see anything develop. Till then, our subjective impressions are all we have to offer, but as stated above, some of these are more black and white than shades of gray when you experience these first hand."
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:19 PM   #206
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NVIDIA has promised upcoming tools for illustrating this, but we have yet to see anything develop.
Curious! Wonder when they officially desire to discuss hardware frame metering is when these tools will be ready to illustrate the differences.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:27 PM   #207
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Curious! Wonder when they officially desire to discuss hardware frame metering is when these tools will be ready to illustrate the differences.
Pauly its already there for Fermi called "PerfHUD", for Kepler they migrated to "Nsight". These are not for consumers though.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:39 PM   #208
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Curious! Wonder when they officially desire to discuss hardware frame metering is when these tools will be ready to illustrate the differences.
These tools have been promised months ago. I wouldn't hold my breath. And btw who of the Red Faction would believe the results anyway when they come from Team Green?
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:22 PM   #209
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My point was that fps is not all there is to it. You can have a 100fps stutterfest or a 80fps smooth as polished glass experience. I would take the lower fps in favor of a better experience. This is relevant to me and many others as at 2560x1440 and up, single gpu solutions do not always cut it for every game in existance.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:36 PM   #210
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Couldn't agree more.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #211
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My point was that fps is not all there is to it. You can have a 100fps stutterfest or a 80fps smooth as polished glass experience. I would take the lower fps in favor of a better experience. This is relevant to me and many others as at 2560x1440 and up, single gpu solutions do not always cut it for every game in existance.
That's right but again that is not the point, if the point is about the fastest then its about the fastest a different point is which is the smoothest.

There is no question about which is faster but when it comes to smoothness it more down to the individual to what matter most and what settings they like to play under and most of reviews state under 60fps is when it becomes noticeable and as the article says there is a 3rd party app to help with that.

You can keep trying to claim that when you keep coming second that the trophy should of gone to you for being the fastest when you keep coming second place because your ride was smoother than the faster car when the prize is for the fastest not the smoothest..
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:32 PM   #212
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Stop being silly, your constant hair-splitting nitpicking does not change anything except making things tiresome, even the Devil 13 is beating the 690 now.
I'm a bit busy now to search for it - do you have a source I could look up quickly that supports your argument?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:34 PM   #213
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I'm a bit busy now to search for it - do you have a source I could look up quickly that supports your argument?
Its in the same review we are talking about which i have already linked here.
http://translate.google.com/translat...241127-19.html
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:37 PM   #214
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No i never said fastest anything. It can be faster but WORSE to play on. Forget that. I want smooth.


Your argument is that because you get 20 fps more that stutter is ok. It is NOT ok. Never will be. Keep living in your silly world.

Numbers mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. The gaming experience does.
All you want is bragging rights. You think a few numbers on a bar graph make you better. Face it, that is not how it works.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:39 PM   #215
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Its in the same review we are talking about which i have already linked here.
http://translate.google.com/translat...-241127-8.html
Oh, that one.. yes, I see it winning in 3 games, and losing in 2. Damn, if there could only be FEWER games for a sweeping conclusion, like always!
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:41 PM   #216
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The prize or trophy is dynamic and ever changing but the commitment to smooth frame-rates is top-to-bottom.

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Old 11-03-2012, 04:45 PM   #217
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No i never said fastest anything. It can be faster but WORSE to play on. Forget that. I want smooth.


Your argument is that because you get 20 fps more that stutter is ok. It is NOT ok. Never will be. Keep living in your silly world.

Numbers mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. The gaming experience does.
All you want is bragging rights. You think a few numbers on a bar graph make you better. Face it, that is not how it works.
Nope i never said anything of the sort, i said the HIS is the faster card, nothing more and nothing less, so stop trying to put words in my mouth.
Opinions to which is smoother is another matter.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:46 PM   #218
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Then why are you arguing against smooth framerate as if stutter is non existant?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:47 PM   #219
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Oh, that one.. yes, I see it winning in 3 games, and losing in 2. Damn, if there could only be FEWER games for a sweeping conclusion, like always!
You better take that up with TOM then.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:49 PM   #220
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You better take that up with TOM then.
Why? To each their own. I take mine up with other things too - especially the better stuff.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:52 PM   #221
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Then why are you arguing against smooth framerate as if stutter is non existant?
I'm not arguing against them at all my point of which is the faster card.
And gain your putting words into my mouth as not once have i implied that stutter is non existent or denied that the 690 is smoother, it seems you have trouble reading.

Quote:
Yes AMD 7xxx crossfire solutions is not as smooth without help from a 3rd party program which does not change the original point, we could then run on to power, heat, noise and the amount of slots it takes up, which still does not change the original point and how much it sucks is a matter of opinion to the individual.
So it seems that no one has rebuttaled my point and have decided to move on other points, so that concludes my part.
As i have said the HIS is the faster card and you have not been able to dispute that fact so you divert.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:55 PM   #222
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Why? To each their own. I take mine up with other things too - especially the better stuff.
If you say so LOL, looking at the site your promoting clearly not.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #223
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If you say so LOL, looking at the site your promoting clearly not.
Why not? 25-game reviews with fps scores that have NEVER been disputed and disproven by anybody ever??!? Why is Toms with its 6-game review better than a 25-game review, I ask?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:59 PM   #224
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Why not? 25-game reviews with fps scores that have NEVER been disputed and disproven by anybody ever??!? Why the personal insult, I ask?
Ask TOM.
Its no more of an insult than yours.
And now i have better things to do like playing BF3.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:04 PM   #225
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Ask TOM.
Its no more of an insult than yours.
No, I'm asking you, if you had the audacity to say "clearly not".

Toms is not the best reviewer, IMHO.

Some of the better review sites are:
CB.de, HW.fr, Xbit, AT, ABT, HWC, PCGH

It's what most serious GPU enthusiasts would tell you.
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