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Old 11-03-2012, 05:29 AM   #26
Veliko
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I am talking about being forced to pay the employees minimal wage always instead of how it currently works.

Making that extra cost to pay higher wages is when it could force increased prices or using the tips to offset it if people demand the wages are higher.

You can either have cheaper prices and tip or higher prices and no tip.
Higher prices and no tip would mean less exploitation of waiting staff, whereby they aren't fretting over every little thing that happens during their shift.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:35 AM   #27
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Higher prices and no tip would mean less exploitation of waiting staff, whereby they aren't fretting over every little thing that happens during their shift.
I prefer they get tips as that generally means better service.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:37 AM   #28
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Then you are going to rubbish restaurants.

Tipping does nothing to ensure you get good service in a restaurant. There are countries that don't do tipping at all, where you'll get service that is as good as, if not better, than the service you can get in the US.

In Europe/Asia, you'll get poorer service in the lower end restaurants. In the better establishments, you'll get better service.

In the US, you'll get poorer service in the lower end restaurants. In the better establishments, you'll get better service.

That's all there it to it, and that's how it works in other industries as well. There is nothing magical about the restaurant industry whereby pixy dust gets sprinkled over every bar, cafe, and restaurant meaning that the only way to get good service is with tips.
I agree, it depends entirely on the restaurant although the lower end/"better" rule isn't always true. Some cheap restaurants have great service and food and there are certainly expensive ones that don't.

The system of tipping seems unfair to me, since many other factors than the quality of the service provided will affect if/how much people tip.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:38 AM   #29
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I prefer they get tips as that generally means better service.
/facepalm

You are ignoring the elephant in the room. As I posted earlier:

Tipping does nothing to ensure you get good service in a restaurant. There are countries that don't do tipping at all, where you'll get service that is as good as, if not better, than the service you can get in the US.

In Europe/Asia, you'll get poorer service in the lower end restaurants. In the better establishments, you'll get better service.

In the US, you'll get poorer service in the lower end restaurants. In the better establishments, you'll get better service.

That's all there it to it, and that's how it works in other industries as well. There is nothing magical about the restaurant industry whereby pixy dust gets sprinkled over every bar, cafe, and restaurant meaning that the only way to get good service is with tips.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:44 AM   #30
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Then you are going to rubbish restaurants.

Tipping does nothing to ensure you get good service in a restaurant.

In the US, you'll get poorer service in the lower end restaurants. In the better establishments, you'll get better service.
The problem is with tipping you are going to get better service in lower end restaurants more often then without so your statement doesn't work.

As for elsewhere that's because they get paid more per hour but don't get the tips so of course the lower end ones will be worse while there will be more competition for the higher end ones just like in places that do tipping and pay more per hour.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:45 AM   #31
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/facepalm

You are ignoring the elephant in the room. As I posted earlier:
We are ignoring it because you are wrong in most cases and tipping does work in most cases.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:47 AM   #32
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We are ignoring it because you are wrong in most cases and tipping does work in most cases.
we don't tip around here, yet I still get good service
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:49 AM   #33
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The problem is with tipping you are going to get better service in lower end restaurants more often then without so your statement doesn't work.

As for elsewhere that's because they get paid more per hour but don't get the tips so of course the lower end ones will be worse while there will be more competition for the higher end ones just like in places that do tipping and pay more per hour.
Sorry, you've lost me.

I've given you examples of how tipping makes no difference, yet here you are still trying to claim that tipping does make a difference.

Industries other than restaurants survive fine without tipping.
Restaurants in countries that don't do tipping manage to survive fine.

What supernatural pixie dust is being used, that suddenly stops restaurants in the US working if they don't implement the tip system?
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:49 AM   #34
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we don't tip around here, yet I still get good service
Well yea you live in Bel Air.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:50 AM   #35
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We are ignoring it because you are wrong in most cases and tipping does work in most cases.
Who is the 'we'? I've already had someone else agree with me in this thread, and there are some in the other tipping thread as well.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:53 AM   #36
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Sorry, you've lost me.

I've given you examples of how tipping makes no difference, yet here you are still trying to claim that tipping does make a difference.

Industries other than restaurants survive fine without tipping.
Restaurants in countries that don't do tipping manage to survive fine.

What supernatural pixie dust is being used, that suddenly stops restaurants in the US working if they don't implement the tip system?
If you don't think tipping works then you never ate at lower / mid level places that the staff works better for it.

High end places are completely different for obvious reasons.

Saying it over and over might make it true eventually but keep repeating it.

As for saying other industries in other places don't use them it's common place for bribes in many Asian cultures but they don't call them that.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:54 AM   #37
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Who is the 'we'? I've already had someone else agree with me in this thread, and there are some in the other tipping thread as well.
I will let you look for yourself in the thread and many other threads.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:56 AM   #38
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I will let you look for yourself in the thread and many other threads.
Broheim and JimmiG on this page alone have echoed what I said.

So again, who is this 'we' you speak of?
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:59 AM   #39
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If you don't think tipping works then you never ate at lower / mid level places that the staff works better for it.

High end places are completely different for obvious reasons.
What obvious reasons are you talking about?

Tipping either works, or it doesn't. There is no magic pixie dust that makes it work in one place, but not another.

Quote:
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Saying it over and over might make it true eventually but keep repeating it.

As for saying other industries in other places don't use them it's common place for bribes in many Asian cultures but they don't call them that.
What does this even mean?

If tipping is so integral to good service in restaurants, how do you explain the fact that the service is good in countries that don't have tips?
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:03 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Veliko View Post
Broheim and JimmiG on this page alone have echoed what I said.

So again, who is this 'we' you speak of?
Look at any tipping thread and you will see many talking about it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:05 AM   #41
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What obvious reasons are you talking about?

Tipping either works, or it doesn't. There is no magic pixie dust that makes it work in one place, but not another.



What does this even mean?

If tipping is so integral to good service in restaurants, how do you explain the fact that the service is good in countries that don't have tips?
I have said the reasons for everything above so read them and stop asking the same thing over and over.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:09 AM   #42
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I have said the reasons for everything above so read them and stop asking the same thing over and over.
You haven't even attempted to answer this point:

Quote:
If tipping is so integral to good service in restaurants, how do you explain the fact that the service is good in countries that don't have tips?
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:09 AM   #43
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I'm not going to dispute whether or not other countries that don't tip have good service...

But the bottom line is, at least in the U.S., is that the reason people work as waiters is that it is an opportunity to make good money if you work hard. If serving were minimum wage, no one would want to do it. Why would you want to deal with the public on that level for minimum wage.

Furthermore, once the server is on his/her shift, its common sense that they have to be on the ball and provide good service to each table to try to get good tips. Flat hourly wage=no incentive to go above and beyond.

Hence, tipping plays a part in getting good service in a restaurant. Probably the biggest part.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:14 AM   #44
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If tipping is so integral to good service in restaurants, how do you explain the fact that the service is good in countries that don't have tips?
I'll venture a guess...

Higher hourly wage
Different overall cost structure in the restaurant
Different customs in that locale
Different culture of the staff there
Different cost of living
Perhaps different lifestyles- for example, living with parents and extended family, hence completely different affordability

Just a guess, may be off base here. I don't know what places you are talking about.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:14 AM   #45
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I'm not going to dispute whether or not other countries that don't tip have good service...

But the bottom line is, at least in the U.S., is that the reason people work as waiters is that it is an opportunity to make good money if you work hard. If serving were minimum wage, no one would want to do it. Why would you want to deal with the public on that level for minimum wage.

Furthermore, once the server is on his/her shift, its common sense that they have to be on the ball and provide good service to each table to try to get good tips. Flat hourly wage=no incentive to go above and beyond.

Hence, tipping plays a part in getting good service in a restaurant. Probably the biggest part.
See, we're back to talking about magic pixie dust again.

The rest of the world survives perfectly fine without the tip system that the US uses.

So please explain what mysterious force is at work in the US, whereby no person in the entire 310 million population would want to work as a waiter, if that tip system was abolished.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:16 AM   #46
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You haven't even attempted to answer this point:
Then you fail at reading.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:17 AM   #47
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I'll venture a guess...

Higher hourly wage
Different overall cost structure in the restaurant
Different customs in that locale
Different culture of the staff there
Different cost of living
Perhaps different lifestyles- for example, living with parents and extended family, hence completely different affordability

Just a guess, may be off base here. I don't know what places you are talking about.
You are completely offbase.

Costs wouldn't influence a worker's work ethic.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:17 AM   #48
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Then you fail at reading.
You said something about bribes in Asia.

That is not an answer.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:18 AM   #49
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See, we're back to talking about magic pixie dust again.
Magic pixie dust is where it's at.




Last edited by Newbian; 11-03-2012 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:18 AM   #50
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You said something about bribes in Asia.

That is not an answer.
Don't make me start posting /facepalm pictures.
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