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Old 11-02-2012, 08:02 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by 2is View Post
My point is, so does 7 and 8 isn't faster in any significant way. It's "under the hood" improvements are minor, the UI change isn't, and sadly it didn't change for the better. I essentially have the option of Windows 3.11 on steroids or Windows 7 Safe Mode look. Since the IU is what I'm interacting with most, it's more important to me than saving a second or two on boot up.

It's a mobile OS ported to desktops. And just as console ports aren't as good on PCs as a game designed from the ground up with PC in mind, neither are operating systems. Even Apple with a 13% market share is smart enough to give their users a proper desktop OS with OSX while maintaining a mobile OS in iOS. Microsoft could have at the very least, not butcher the desktop mode, but that would have made too much sense I suppose.
Sure its faster,I already posted a link to prove it since you doubt all the Win8 users that say so ,don't know what you want .


Quote:
Using the Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB HDD we saw OS boot up times reduced by 33%. Going from 27 seconds with Windows 7 to just 18 seconds with Windows 8 is obviously a significant improvement and it means SSD users will be able to load Windows 8 in a matter of a few seconds.

A similar improvement is seen when measuring shutdown time. Windows 8 took 8 seconds versus the 12 seconds it took an identically configured Windows 7 system.

From a performance standpoint Windows 8 appears to offer a solid foundation from the get-go. Although there are only a few select areas where it is faster than Windows 7, we are pleased that it's able to match it everywhere else.

Looking beyond benchmarks, Windows 8 appears more polished than Windows 7, even if you plan to live on the desktop and aren't too fond of the Start screen, general usage is smoother and appears to be faster on Windows 8, which I found most noticeable on our somewhat underpowered Athlon II X4 system. If anything, it's a great start, now the Metro/Modern style will have to prove itself as a cross-platform OS that marries desktop, laptop and tablet PCs.



http://www.techspot.com/review/561-w...ws7/page5.html

You can argue Win7 is a fast as Win8 in certain situations,however there is no doubt Win8 does have a few performance advantages,lets see how well it does down the road with more mature drivers and updates from Microsoft etc...after all Win7 has had three years advantage.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:59 AM   #277
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I am a Windows 8 user also, I'm saying its not faster in any significant way. Insignificant enough that i can't tell the difference in startup/shut down times with apparently is the biggest speed improvement. What I want is a better OS.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:29 AM   #278
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I want metro gone as a laptop user and aero and start menu back. Other then that I like win 8 it's quick, clean, and runs smooth on an upgrade from win 7.

I was thinking about doing a clean install, but I completely deleted all the old windows 7 files and see no need to do a clean install since I'm having zero issues with programs or functionality.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #279
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Used windows 7 64 bit made new installations, then loaded up windows 8 64 bit without any previous testing, took a few to get used to metro, once that logic was explored, I just enjoy windows 8.
Its faster than windows 7, its easier to use and even though I dont spend much time in Metro going there is fast and having a visual view of all the programs installed and what one I want pinned to use in desktop mode is a good one.

New features for social interacting, skydrive and other options is good also but its faster by far to use for me. No delay and just works.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by 2is View Post
I am a Windows 8 user also, I'm saying its not faster in any significant way. Insignificant enough that i can't tell the difference in startup/shut down times with apparently is the biggest speed improvement. What I want is a better OS.
This...

Plus any startup time discrepancy is likely attributed to UEFI vs BIOS. Windows 7 can be installed using UEFI as well.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:26 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by 2is View Post
I am a Windows 8 user also, I'm saying its not faster in any significant way. Insignificant enough that i can't tell the difference in startup/shut down times with apparently is the biggest speed improvement. What I want is a better OS.
So you get increase bootup and shut down speed, improved battery life on Tablets/Notebooks etc..Microsoft Store with 1000s of software including free stuff like games etc..,Windows Live sync,,XBOX intergration,new multi monitor features,IE10 (I don't use its but its new for Win8)Integrated Cloud Storage / Sync,improved Task Manager ,you also get improved security ie ,

Quote:
A new secure-boot process, enabled by default on all new Windows 8 PCs, will prevent unauthorized operating systems and malware from loading on your machine. The system uses cryptographic signatures to verify that the operating system is authorized to load and that it hasn't been tampered with.
I could list more but it has NEW features,another link to prove it http://www.digitaltrends.com/computi...-in-windows-8/

Quote:
Conclusion

Windows 8 is a major departure, but it’s not all about the new interface. Many of the features here are major improvements over Windows 7. We’re particularly happy about the inclusion of Hyper-V, the anti-virus built in to Windows Defender and the new File History backup solution. All of these are significant improvements with no downside. We only wish the same could be said of the new interface.
I could throw in DX11.1 on Win8 which is a minor DX update,however here is the info ,

Quote:
Direct3D 11.1 as a common foundation

While adding new features like Direct2D Effects is a great way to help developers deliver new experiences, we also looked at ways to make it easier to use existing DirectX features.

Over years of development, we've added various different features to DirectX. Hardware acceleration of video decoding came alongside programmable shaders in Direct3D 9. In Windows 7, we added Direct2D and built it on top of Direct3D 10. At that time, we also created DirectCompute, a new system for high-performance computation on the GPU that became part of Direct3D 11. One result of all these updates is that DirectX has a very comprehensive set of features around graphics and GPU computation, but as a side effect, it has also become increasingly difficult to create an app that uses video, 2D graphics, 3D graphics, text, and DirectCompute together.

In Windows 8, the new Direct3D 11.1 API is the foundation for hardware acceleration of 2D graphics and text, image processing, 3D graphics and computation, and video. The new API makes it much simpler to mix different types of content in a single scene because that single API now manages all of the GPU resources associated with rendering. This also reduces memory usage by eliminating the redundancy involved in creating multiple graphics device-management objects in app code. In addition, Direct3D 11.1 provides a uniform way for apps to access the various capabilities of different graphics hardware. It provides mechanisms for the app to determine what features are available, and then only uses those capabilities. This enables apps to make maximum use of the GPU’s capabilities, whether the GPU was designed for long battery life on a tablet, or high-end gaming on a desktop PC.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:57 AM   #282
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from your quoted text..

"We only wish the same could be said of the new interface."

All the UI changes would be fine as additions to the W7 UI, but not as replacements.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:02 PM   #283
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from your quoted text..

"We only wish the same could be said of the new interface."

All the UI changes would be fine as additions to the W7 UI, but not as replacements.
No OS is perfect you will always get those that like dislike the layout etc,happens on every OS,however still holds true Win8 has quite a few new features.


Full review below,

Quote:
But touchscreen or mouse, Windows 8 undeniably shines. The final desktop look makes the transition between the Modern UI and desktop less obvious. You can still stay substantially in the desktop if you want to and enjoy a faster, more secure version of Windows with a better browser that has longer battery life.

But as more useful Modern UI apps come along, you'll find you split your time between the two experiences more, and gestures could be critical to making that a natural combination.

Keep an open mind, spend some time getting used to the charm bar and the Start screen. Once you do, we defy you not to be impressed by Windows 8.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-...articleContent
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:50 PM   #284
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So you get increase bootup and shut down speed, improved battery life on Tablets/Notebooks etc..Microsoft Store with 1000s of software including free stuff like games etc..,Windows Live sync,,XBOX intergration,new multi monitor features,IE10 (I don't use its but its new for Win8)Integrated Cloud Storage / Sync,improved Task Manager ,you also get improved security ie
You can keep saying it boots up faster and I can keep saying the speed difference is marginal enought that I don't notice it, and neither one of us will convince the other. IE 10 will be available for Windows 7, i don't own an xbox. I already have access to thousands of free games on my iphone and ipad, I play exactly 0 of them. I'll concern my self with DX 11.1 when games actually use it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #285
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You can keep saying it boots up faster and I can keep saying the speed difference is marginal enought that I don't notice it, and neither one of us will convince the other. IE 10 will be available for Windows 7, i don't own an xbox. I already have access to thousands of free games on my iphone and ipad, I play exactly 0 of them. I'll concern my self with DX 11.1 when games actually use it.

Funny thing is a lot of Win8 users from all over the web including many different forums say it boots faster,I've notice it too,even official website benchmarks that I linked,also other websites prove it,don't know what more you want


Most users upgraded for a reason, forget about boot speed,all the features I listed earlier including native USB 3.0 support and pricing is worth it alone IMHO.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #286
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Funny thing is a lot of Win8 users from all over the web including many different forums say it boots faster,I've notice it too,even official website benchmarks that I linked,also other websites prove it,don't know what more you want


Most users upgraded for a reason, forget about boot speed,all the features I listed earlier including native USB 3.0 support and pricing is worth it alone IMHO.
I want a desktop UI that doesn't suck. That was pretty clear from my very first post in the thread. Most users upgraded becuase they could. I suppose that's a reason. The features you list are either available in Windows 7, going to be available in windows 7 or are meaningless... Like "native" support for USB 3... As opposed to what? Installing a driver?
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:53 PM   #287
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I want a desktop UI that doesn't suck. That was pretty clear from my very first post in the thread. Most users upgraded becuase they could. I suppose that's a reason. The features you list are either available in Windows 7, going to be available in windows 7 or are meaningless... Like "native" support for USB 3... As opposed to what? Installing a driver?
Those features are unique to Win8,as to desktop UI,funny got mine (desktop UI)working great,I don't even need Metro for 99% of my usage,end of the day nobody is forcing you to buy or use Win8,making pointless post is not helping.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:57 PM   #288
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Yes, a crappy desktop UI is unique to Windows 8. I agree. Mine works as intended too, and that's the problem. No where did I claim I'm being forced to buy windows 8. I'm talking about how I think it's a poor implementation of a desktop OS, not how I'm being forced to buy it. Anything else you're confused about? If you think my posts are pointless, then stop replying to them. I'm certainly not going to stop posting becuase you think I should.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:50 PM   #289
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Those features are unique to Win8,as to desktop UI,funny got mine (desktop UI)working great,I don't even need Metro for 99% of my usage,end of the day nobody is forcing you to buy or use Win8,making pointless post is not helping.
pointlessness is in the eye of the beholder.

I, and others, keep saying there's no reason that the new ui features needed to replace the W7 UI..and you and others keep responding that W8 is wonderful.

That isn't the point. The point is, there's no reason for W8 not to still have the W7 features that have been removed.

Same thing with Aero. No reason to get rid of it, except someone at MS decided flat big rectangles in primary colors are the greatest thing since the wheel and they are going to MAKE everyone conform to their vision.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:12 PM   #290
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Yes, a crappy desktop UI is unique to Windows 8. I agree. Mine works as intended too, and that's the problem. No where did I claim I'm being forced to buy windows 8. I'm talking about how I think it's a poor implementation of a desktop OS, not how I'm being forced to buy it. Anything else you're confused about? If you think my posts are pointless, then stop replying to them. I'm certainly not going to stop posting becuase you think I should.
Try being bit more constructive rather then another Win8 sucks post,how many do we need?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:15 PM   #291
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This morning on the local computer radio talk show, Windows Hate was discussed. It was proposed that MS is speeding up the turn around between OS releases (eg, they are probably not going to let Win 7 hang around for ten years like XP anymore) and thus pressure is on to reduce costs limiting how many separate OSes will be supported in the field. So I think that is part of what is being observed.

From all the adds Im now receiving, sure looks like Win Hate is being shoved down consumer throats as the computers advertised by the big houses and hardware manufacturers screens are sporting "it".
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:15 PM   #292
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pointlessness is in the eye of the beholder.

I, and others, keep saying there's no reason that the new ui features needed to replace the W7 UI..and you and others keep responding that W8 is wonderful.

That isn't the point. The point is, there's no reason for W8 not to still have the W7 features that have been removed.

Same thing with Aero. No reason to get rid of it, except someone at MS decided flat big rectangles in primary colors are the greatest thing since the wheel and they are going to MAKE everyone conform to their vision.
Aero is just eye candy it does nothing more then that,consumes more battery power on laptops etc...Win8 can be made to look like Win7 desktop,however I will say Microsoft should of left an OPTION to keep Aero/Start button for desktop users, that would of made more them happy IMHO.

Btw I got my desktop like Win7 and that's without any mods on Win8.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:16 PM   #293
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It seems like some people just want to complain so they make threads on a forum. I suppose thats ok but when you have people making counterpoints and the op goes back to the same complaints that aren't pointing out anything we didn't know about for a while, it gets old.

How many times can we hear "metro ui sucks" before nbody really cares because they are using desktop mode?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:18 PM   #294
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Try being bit more constructive rather then another Win8 sucks post,how many do we need?
About as many as there are posts that say it's better becuase it boots marginally faster.

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Originally Posted by Mem View Post
Aero is just eye candy it does nothing more then that,consumes more battery power on laptops etc...Win8 can be made to look like Win7 desktop,however I will say Microsoft should of left an OPTION to keep Aero/Start button for desktop users, that would of made more them happy IMHO.

Btw I got my desktop like Win7 and that's without any mods on Win8.
I don't have to worry about my battery life on my desktop. I have my profiles on my laptop so that aero is enabled when plugged in and disabled on battery. I can have my cake and eat it too in Windows 7.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:29 PM   #295
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How about, let it run it's course?

I can recall multiple articles in the past that took Microsoft to task for 'not leading' and simply giving people what they wanted. Two specific cases being the UI and X86/X64.

I can recall old articled admonishing them for not pushing hard enough for 64 bit computing. The first argument was they took to long, and when the did XP they didn't push it enough and no one really cared until Vista and 7. 64bit is the clear way to go, yet there's still a 32bit Win8.

Another one is the UI. This article was during the XP tenure, but it basically got after them about not doing anything about the UI since '95 and that it was time to move the UI forward. You can make the arguement that the UI experience didn't really change between 1995 and 2012 until Win8 came out.

It's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. I know people get accustomed to things, but things never move forward if you don't try. Love it or hate it, touch is in. It's not to say the kb and mouse are out, but touch is definitely in. Getting into that game is reason enough for Win8 from a business POV (if you're MS that is). Is the traditional desktop going away? No, but a lot of desktops WILL be obsoleted due to tablets. How many people out there now use their tablet for email and internet instead of a desktop? I'm sure it's a considerable number.

On thing metro in Win8 does is it puts the OS in front of everyone - for better or for worse. The plus side is you don't have to spend any time in it if you don't want to - other than the 2.5 seconds it takes to load the start screen and click the desktop tile.

Did metro NEED to replace the start button? That's a fair question. However, those who think that answer is an emphatic no, need to accept the fact there are others that think like the change and others who may not like the start screen as it is, but feel something WAS needed to replace the all programs list in the start menu. Me, i fall into the last camp. I don't think necessarily metro is the answer, but I don't think the old version was either. I always found all programs clunky and no overly organized and it frequently made it a PITA to find things. I can find things easier in the Start Screen, but i'm not sold on it at this point. I am interested, though, to see what can/will be done with it in the hands of developers.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:34 PM   #296
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About as many as there are posts that say it's better becuase it boots marginally faster.



I don't have to worry about my battery life on my desktop. I have my profiles on my laptop so that aero is enabled when plugged in and disabled on battery. I can have my cake and eat it too in Windows 7.
You forget we are talking about Win8 which is designed for Tablet/Notebooks as well as Desktop users, Win7 is primary a desktop OS,anyway you can read more info here on why Aero was dropped,http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/...-in-windows-8/ ,

Quote:
“Aero, with all its glassy, translucent goodness, is bad for battery life. Metro, meanwhile, which is flat, dull, not transparent, and only full screen, is very good for battery life. It’s predictable,” he writes.

And battery life matters much more to the on-the-go tablet or laptop user, not the always-plugged-in desktop user. According to Thurrot, Microsoft no longer cares about its traditional desktop user base and has ditched Aero in order to cater to a “mythical” tablet user.

Right I'm off to game on my Win8,got some Geth/Cannibals to kill in ME3 MP.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:38 PM   #297
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This morning on the local computer radio talk show, Windows Hate was discussed. It was proposed that MS is speeding up the turn around between OS releases (eg, they are probably not going to let Win 7 hang around for ten years like XP anymore) and thus pressure is on to reduce costs limiting how many separate OSes will be supported in the field. So I think that is part of what is being observed.

From all the adds Im now receiving, sure looks like Win Hate is being shoved down consumer throats as the computers advertised by the big houses and hardware manufacturers screens are sporting "it".
It's not in dispute. They said that themselves with the release of 7 (or possibly just after vista). Vista 2007, 7 2009, 8, 2012. Been roughly 2.5 years between each.

As far as limiting support, it's not a new practice amongst software companies at all. Autodesk, for example, puts out an entire new product line every year in march/april. For the last 8-10 years, their policy has been to only support 3 versions. This past march/april, their 2013 line came out. After that, they only supported 2013, 12, and 11 products. 2010 and prior are not.

XP may have gotten a Methusalethan (sp?) lifespan seeing as it's not due to hit EOL until 2014, but it doesn't mean they'll shorten 7 to force upgrades - especially if they find 80% of big business is still using it. And that's what got the EOL of XP extended - big business.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:40 PM   #298
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You forget we are talking about Win8 which is designed for Tablet/Notebooks as well as Desktop users, Win7 is primary a desktop OS,anyway you can read more info here on why Aero was dropped,http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/microsoft-drops-aero-glass-ui-in-windows-8/ ,




Right I'm off to game on my Win8,got some Geth/Cannibals to kill in ME3 MP.


I still don't think you understand my point even though I've said it multiple times...

I'm not forgetting what Windows 8 is designed for at all, that is, in-fact, my chief rub with Windows 8. The desktop-friendly UI has been neglected in favor of the touch-friendly UI. This is great for a touch screen (I actually liked Windows 8 when I played around with the surface for a while, much more so than any Windows 7 tablet even) but dislike it on my desktop where I use a keyboard and mouse, even in the classic mode because it simply looks stale compared to W7.

You also seemed to ignore what I said before and keep bringing up battery life, so I'll say it again. My desktop is plugged in, battery life is not a concern. My power profiles on my laptop are set such that Aero/transparency is enabled when plugged in and automatically disabled when running on battery. If you want to stop having these circular arguments, I suggest you actually read my counter points to the points you're trying to make.

Right I'm off to game on my Win7. I have some Templar's to assassinate.

See what I did there?
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Last edited by 2is; 11-03-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:26 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2is View Post
I still don't think you understand my point even though I've said it multiple times...

I'm not forgetting what Windows 8 is designed for at all, that is, in-fact, my chief rub with Windows 8. The desktop-friendly UI has been neglected in favor of the touch-friendly UI. This is great for a touch screen (I actually liked Windows 8 when I played around with the surface for a while, much more so than any Windows 7 tablet even) but dislike it on my desktop where I use a keyboard and mouse, even in the classic mode because it simply looks stale compared to W7.

You also seemed to ignore what I said before and keep bringing up battery life, so I'll say it again. My desktop is plugged in, battery life is not a concern. My power profiles on my laptop are set such that Aero/transparency is enabled when plugged in and automatically disabled when running on battery. If you want to stop having these circular arguments, I suggest you actually read my counter points to the points you're trying to make.

Right I'm off to game on my Win7. I have some Templar's to assassinate.

See what I did there?
I did read what you said however Microsoft looked at the bigger picture on battery life, average tablet/notebook users don't go around keeping it plugged into the mains or setting up power features(yes I read your power saving feature you do with Aero)there was a compromise here,however I did say they should of left an option for desktops users in my previous post.

Do I miss Aero?.... not really, I don't have it on my Android Tablet or Ubuntu PC,sure its nice eye candy but it does not do anything that is useful if you see my point.


Win8 desktop as far as I'm concerned works similar to Win7 depending on how you use your PC so don't see the real problem there,sure they have changed a few things but they always do on every new OS they ever released,I only ever use keyboard and mouse btw on Win8 , however somethings I like on Vista that I did not like on Win7 ,same goes for Win8,probably same for Win9 etc...



End of the day I can use Win8 well as a desktop/gamer user,its fast ,stable with new features and just works for me so yes I'm keeping it as a desktop OS,Metro I'm neutral on.

I probably upgrade to Win9 when it comes out too,I've always upgraded earlier since Dos 6.22 days and excepted there will always be changes and things I like and dislike etc...no OS is perfect.



GW2 awaits
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Last edited by Mem; 11-03-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:08 PM   #300
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You keep using the word compromise, I don't think it means what you think it means. You plug in, you get aero, you're on battery you don't and extend your battery life. That's not a compromise, it's the exact opposite, actually.
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