Valve Confirms Hardware Development

[Kalmah]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/...re-development

A job listing on Valve’s site confirms that the company will begin developing hardware. A listing for an industrial designer says “Valve is traditionally a software company. Open platforms like the PC and Mac are important to us, as they enable us and our partners to have a robust and direct relationship with customers. We’re frustrated by the lack of innovation in the computer hardware space though, so we’re jumping in.”

The post continues, adding that Valve is interested in creating new user experiences. “Even basic input, the keyboard and mouse, haven’t really changed in any meaningful way over the years,” it says. “There’s a real void in the marketplace, and opportunities to create compelling user experiences are being overlooked.”

The post specifies that the position will add “expertise in product design and manufacturing, ergonomics, usability, aesthetics, and surfacing.” Candidates are also expected to have “6+ years of professional experience shipping world-class, high-tech hardware products” and “a thorough understanding of product design principles.”



Speculation about Valve’s entry into the hardware market has been flying since March, when rumors suggested Valve was working on a Steam Box console. Valve later debunked the rumors, commenting that the world is “a long way from Valve shipping out any sort of hardware.” Later, a listing for an electronics engineer to work on "platform hardware" emerged, as well as a blog post discussing wearable computing.

We’ve reached out to Valve for comment about the job listing and will update with any additional information we receive.

Nothing specific here, but it shows that something new may be coming in the future.

EDIT: MODS, looks like somebody else and myself posted this at the same time. Feel free to delete.

[nurturedhate]

The part about “expertise in product design and manufacturing, ergonomics, usability, aesthetics, and surfacing.” makes it sound more like they are going to develop keyboard/mice and the like more than what most of us would consider "hardware".

[postmortemIA]

Originally Posted by nurturedhate

The part about “expertise in product design and manufacturing, ergonomics, usability, aesthetics, and surfacing.” makes it sound more like they are going to develop keyboard/mice and the like more than what most of us would consider "hardware".

I think they are developing 'PC Console' and looking at something that has all traits of kb/mouse combo, but none of weaknesses. In other words, they don't want to be just another console maker.

[IAteYourMother]

http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valve...ws-8-and-more/

Read the bottom of the article regarding wearing computers and the evolution of touch. I'm wondering if they're starting development of some hardware for a new UI.

[wuliheron]

Valve already patented an idea for a console style controller which is partly where all these Valve console rumors got started. Hardware guys have been taking ideas from video game programmers since the beginning and even AMD's new hardware acceleration for partially resident textures is an idea Carmack inspired. All it suggests to me is Valve thinks they have some good ideas for at least controllers and they need someone with the hardware expertise to help them out.

They were also pretty impressed with the new Oculus Rift and the interface possibilities specifically for VR are largely unexplored by the video game industry because it has never taken off and things like cheap motion sensors are only now becoming good enough to do it justice.

[Kalmah]

Originally Posted by nurturedhate

The part about “expertise in product design and manufacturing, ergonomics, usability, aesthetics, and surfacing.” makes it sound more like they are going to develop keyboard/mice and the like more than what most of us would consider "hardware".

Well, he says “Even basic input..." "Even" being the key word. As in being just an example of a small thing that could be improved upon. Therefore, I think their aim is more than just input devices.

I hope they are successful in whatever they are doing and hope that it is indeed something good. I'm not a Valve fanboy but they have proved in my opinion that they are in a 'for gamers' position rather than a 'for profit'. (obviously, just to clarify, they need profit, but they aren't throwing their consumers around and trying to tell us what we want like some publishers are) If for instance, all future Valve games were made for the use of an optional piece of hardware and it is fun I would go for it. If it were EA doing this I'd probably just tell them to suck it. The reason being that EA would probably support their new hardware for 1 or 2 games then support would vanish. Valve would most likely push through and make it not a waste of my money.

[destrekor]

Originally Posted by Kalmah

Well, he says “Even basic input..." "Even" being the key word. As in being just an example of a small thing that could be improved upon. Therefore, I think their aim is more than just input devices.

I hope they are successful in whatever they are doing and hope that it is indeed something good. I'm not a Valve fanboy but they have proved in my opinion that they are in a 'for gamers' position rather than a 'for profit'. (obviously, just to clarify, they need profit, but they aren't throwing their consumers around and trying to tell us what we want like some publishers are) If for instance, all future Valve games were made for the use of an optional piece of hardware and it is fun I would go for it. If it were EA doing this I'd probably just tell them to suck it. The reason being that EA would probably support their new hardware for 1 or 2 games then support would vanish. Valve would most likely push through and make it not a waste of my money.

Being Valve, I think the only console-like thing they'd develop is a more closed-package PC-based package.
NOT in the original Xbox flare, but in a mini-ITX rig equivalent to a middle-class laptop in a box. Some kind of purpose-built and HTPC-ish console made for both streaming, the main effort, a Steam-sourced digital delivery system, obviously meant to feel at home on a big-screen TV as well as perhaps capable of a KB/M desktop situation.

Games "created" for it would work just as well on a PC, because the coding would be the exact same. Any "Steam-console Originals" would be available on the PC, though it's likely their may be multiple versions with more textures and features on the desktop, and a more optimized version, without the ability to change video settings, on the "Steam-console" version.

That's my take, and the only route Valve should ever consider if they wish to make a move on the living room. Steam-console game versions would be easy to accomplish without changing basically anything but a few UI elements, basically setting a locked-in graphical configuration, removing access to config files and locking out that part of any Settings menus. And, as a good effort, a purchase (through Steam, obviously) of any version would include access to the other, and it would be "multi-platform multiplayer" out of the box. Unless any game designers wished to block different peripherals in multiplayer, as in, if they want to play with "PC" players online, they might need to use a KB/M. I've seen that as a reason (however valid it may or may not be) as to why some games don't have multi-platform MP while others do have such.


If they were to make such a move, and followed my line of logic, I think they'd have an opportunity for strong success.

And hell, I wouldn't mind seeing more entirely new ideas for input peripherals. No matter how radical a mouse or one-handed WASD keyboard looks, they are still mice and keyboards. Controllers may change the position of a few buttons or analog sticks, but aside from ergonomic differences, they are still very similar. If they have truly new ideas they might like to try out, I'm game.


Already that OcularVR headset sounds very much like something I'd be interested in trying, though, outside of viewpoints, it's not really an "input" device.

But the true resolution that will likely use, even with the addition of 3D, my SLI gaming system will power through much higher fidelity options with that than it can with my 5760x1080 surround setup. And it would be a TREAT to have that in a racing game... then again, it might be awkward not being able to see my actual wheel and shifter.

I digress...

What I'd really want to know though, if Valve does pursue a PC-based Steam console, would they be looking for profit margins at all? Or would they take a loss on the console, and go the "peripherals and game sales will save the day" route?
If they don't take a decent loss, I cannot imagine them challenging consoles in the graphics realm. And hell, will it be Windows x86-based? If not, then I might not imagine seeing a pure compatibility with game ports - or should I say, it would require actual porting versus minor config tweaks. Could they get the game to run with the Windows stack of kernel and APIs but severely strip down Windows itself or emulate it in such a way that they can avoid resource competition? That factor being removed is the only reason console games can look better than the hardware would suggest, if comparing it to PC hardware.
And if they don't go the proper console route, and can't work in some kind of resource-saving magic, and don't take a massive loss on the console, they won't be able to compete, graphically, with next-gen consoles without being, at minimum, a few hundred dollars more expensive than whatever they launch at.

If they make a proper console that requires game ports (unless it is absolutely minimal code altering, perhaps only changing up some API calls... I'm no coder, don't attack this part of my logic ), I can't see it really succeeding.
I cannot see the marketplace supporting FOUR consoles. "Xbox 720", PS4, WiiU, AND a Steam console? Developers aren't going to be happy with such an effort, and multi-console homes are likely the only reason the market will even support three and provide healthy margins for all.

[mmntech]

This would explain Gabe Newell wanting to port all Steam games to Linux. They could build a light weight distro specifically tuned for gaming. Then have it run as a backend for Steam. It's obvious Valve isn't too happy with Microsoft and it's easier than building a new OS from the ground up.

[VulgarDisplay]

Originally Posted by destrekor

Already that OcularVR headset sounds very much like something I'd be interested in trying, though, outside of viewpoints, it's not really an "input" device.

But the true resolution that will likely use, even with the addition of 3D, my SLI gaming system will power through much higher fidelity options with that than it can with my 5760x1080 surround setup. And it would be a TREAT to have that in a racing game... then again, it might be awkward not being able to see my actual wheel and shifter.

Now imagine that VR headset paired up with Kinect. You could look down and see your own hands and feet in game, and they could even track your pedals and steering/shifter with the Kinect. If you reach for it in the real world the Kinect mirrors that 1:1 in game. THAT would be amazing, and totally possible if you ask me.

[destrekor]

Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay

Now imagine that VR headset paired up with Kinect. You could look down and see your own hands and feet in game, and they could even track your pedals and steering/shifter with the Kinect. If you reach for it in the real world the Kinect mirrors that 1:1 in game. THAT would be amazing, and totally possible if you ask me.

I don't know if I have enough USB ports!

[I probably could handle that all, but connection/disconnection would be a pain in the ass.]

But that would indeed be pretty damn awesome - will take a little while for developers to really sink their teeth into this kinds of situations. Kinect development on the PC is still very slow (is much even really happening in that scene?)

All that translations and 1:1 mapping, if ultra-low-latency, is also going to be hard on a CPU - any CPU-heavy game (like hardcore racing simulations) and those kinds of issues stand out.

I used a PS Eye headtracking solution for awhile, mainly before getting three monitors but even then still used it for a little while, and I already saw a performance hit.

But still, the future is calling, and when it comes to technology, I am excited... the rest of the future looks bleak as hell from my eyes, but at least technology will be cool.

[destrekor]

Originally Posted by mmntech

This would explain Gabe Newell wanting to port all Steam games to Linux. They could build a light weight distro specifically tuned for gaming. Then have it run as a backend for Steam. It's obvious Valve isn't too happy with Microsoft and it's easier than building a new OS from the ground up.

Valve's only worry is the business sense. PC gaming is going nowhere, Windows 8 might make it even easier to get up and running from the users perspective.
The worry is a Microsoft-controlled store. Outside of Windows RT (tablets), Steam and whatnot will still be very much possible and alive... but I think studios, and mainly the distribution parties, are worried that they will see their bottom lines hit with more sales occurring through Microsoft-official channels, with their required cuts.
I think this remains to be seen. I'll likely continue using Steam (and Origin) as long as they are around. Valve could be the hardest hit, though other parties, like GOG and Impulse might hurt a bit too; most of their sales aren't exclusive to their distribution channel, and if it's super easy to go through the Microsoft Store, get the game at the same retail price... users will likely go that route. I think, just because I like Steam and ilk, I'll continue to use them mostly to help them.
These kinds of changes, while they help us and may benefit all users in the end, usually end up hurting other businesses who have been offering a solution in the meantime. That's why companies come and go quite often, because suddenly "they aren't needed."
I'd rather see more changes like this, honestly. And I won't go out of my way to "hurt Microsoft" if it comes to that, but... I do also like Steam in this case. Just like these internet stores have been hurting B&M stores, it all benefits us in the end, and the losers (companies) will fight tooth and nail until they can't afford it.


And I forgot about the Linux route. But that would suck imho - because that does require a fair bit of code porting, and that would indeed equal a potential four-console market. Valve might be biting off more than they chew if they indeed pursue that route.

But, they would do a major service to the Linux community in the meantime. And they could still offer the "buy for either desktop or console, get the other license as well" - but you'd have to have a Linux desktop.

What is the deal with Linux games, anyhow? They have to scrap DirectX entirely, right? Aside from Valve games, any major titles utilizing DirectX for PC and porting to OpenGL (or...?) for Linux? OpenGL work on MacOS too? [for that matter, what does Source utilize? Now that I am thinking, I don't think it's DirectX.]
I realize DirectX isn't the end all be all of APIs, and I reckon something better might come along if enough get frustrated, but I haven't seen anything from the OpenGL camp that really sells the idea of it offering a visually superior capability. As hardware progresses, imho, graphics should still do the same too - but yes we also need a better "game-focused" effort - that's for countless other Threads though.

[thejunglegod]

Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay

Now imagine that VR headset paired up with Kinect. You could look down and see your own hands and feet in game, and they could even track your pedals and steering/shifter with the Kinect. If you reach for it in the real world the Kinect mirrors that 1:1 in game. THAT would be amazing, and totally possible if you ask me.

That would indeed be next gen. Something i think the big players should be trying to dish out rather than a new console with better ram and quadcore processors.

Originally Posted by destrekor

I don't know if I have enough USB ports!

Hahahahaha. Good point there.

[Kalmah]

Originally Posted by destrekor

snip

They could leave this pseudo 'steam box' open to hardware upgrades perhaps. Graphics card manufacturers could brand their card as 'steam compatible' and provide a driver to Valve. Over time, you'd end up with different boxes with different motherboard (steam box v1, v2, v3..) to keep up with technology. That would likely be long down the road though.

At some point though I would be left with the decision of "upgrade pc or upgrade steam box"? It will depend on if I have to give up games to go all out steam box I guess.

Also, if they did take a loss on the sale of the box, it would be beneficial to me. Spend tons of money plus cost of games for pc or spend mediocre money plus cost of games for steam box. They'd probably make their money back easily and It would make it an easy choice in deciding where my upgrade path goes. They could possibly leave Microsoft in the dust with the pc gaming market and never look back.

EDIT: Some afterthoughts. If this is what it comes too it would be a very bold move by Valve. They would want to mop up as many people that they can get. This would mean advertising against the xbox, playstation, nintendo etc... Then you might have some of the younger and naive console fans complaining because the games are different than a typical console game. It would be an instant mix of cultures. Word of mouth can ruin reputation quickly I'd guess. If an endeavor like this were to fail it would be devastating. To clarify, every console gamer I know has told me that they thought Half Life 2 sucks. Basically, between the lines "It's not call of duty".

[wuliheron]

Originally Posted by destrekor

Already that OcularVR headset sounds very much like something I'd be interested in trying, though, outside of viewpoints, it's not really an "input" device.

But the true resolution that will likely use, even with the addition of 3D, my SLI gaming system will power through much higher fidelity options with that than it can with my 5760x1080 surround setup. And it would be a TREAT to have that in a racing game... then again, it might be awkward not being able to see my actual wheel and shifter.

The important thing to remember about the Oculus is that you no longer need a monitor or TV for a really great experience. The prototypes they've put out can be hooked up to a laptop in your backpack if you want and eventually models could even plug into anything from a smartphone on up. With the addition of a couple of small cheap cameras it can even provide an augmented reality system complete with vividly 3D monsters running around your own neighborhood.

Since it isn't a proprietary system owned by one of the console manufacturers it could be Valve's way of getting their foot in the door. They would need to produce a portable battery powered console system just for Steam that could be hooked up to a TV or monitor, but is optimized for the Oculus which requires very low latencies and 60fps. It's those requirements that are so different from what the current consoles are aimed at that would give them a real chance of leveraging so many steam games including older ones that don't require cutting edge technology to run fast.

[destrekor]

Originally Posted by wuliheron

The important thing to remember about the Oculus is that you no longer need a monitor or TV for a really great experience. The prototypes they've put out can be hooked up to a laptop in your backpack if you want and eventually models could even plug into anything from a smartphone on up. With the addition of a couple of small cheap cameras it can even provide an augmented reality system complete with vividly 3D monsters running around your own neighborhood.

?
I never claimed otherwise. Maybe you were confused about my mentioning of what I am currently working with?

Yes, it doesn't require screens, but it may cause issues for some gamers who need to every now and then seen the peripherals they are using for input?

[wuliheron]

Originally Posted by destrekor

?
I never claimed otherwise. Maybe you were confused about my mentioning of what I am currently working with?

Yes, it doesn't require screens, but it may cause issues for some gamers who need to every now and then seen the peripherals they are using for input?

Gabe specifically said things like the keyboard and mouse haven't really changed in forever.

I think of the situation as similar to the way Nintendo became a big player in the market overnight. They developed a cheap console that wasn't as powerful as the others, but they also developed the Wii remote that was a cheap controller the likes of which nobody had ever seen. Then they marketed games to people who had never played them before like exercise programs for mom.

The technology for motion and gesture controllers is already exploding and soon enough even PC gamers may finally have alternatives to the keyboard and mouse that they really like.

[Zenoth]

Cool, may their mices, controllers and keyboards shine for us gamers.

Now, give me Half-Life 3.

[Rakewell]

HL3?

[PrincessFrosty]

I remember seeing someone posting a patent application by valve for a control pad, I think it had modular controls, for example you could un-clip an analogue stick and replace it with a D-pad or something else, basically a customizable controller.

I think it's more likely they'll shoot for something like new input devices rather than an entire "console" style box, it will almost certainly be something related to getting steam on to TVs in the living room via a PC.

Maybe something like a wireless device allowing video output from your PC direct to TV and a wireless controller to make sofa style gaming on the PC really easy, currently it's do-able but fiddly, that all fits in well with steams big picture/screen mode.

[destrekor]

Originally Posted by wuliheron

Gabe specifically said things like the keyboard and mouse haven't really changed in forever.

I think of the situation as similar to the way Nintendo became a big player in the market overnight. They developed a cheap console that wasn't as powerful as the others, but they also developed the Wii remote that was a cheap controller the likes of which nobody had ever seen. Then they marketed games to people who had never played them before like exercise programs for mom.

The technology for motion and gesture controllers is already exploding and soon enough even PC gamers may finally have alternatives to the keyboard and mouse that they really like.

Sure, the future will bring some crazy shit our way... but racing sims are still going to require a wheel, pedals, and something to shift with.
Which was the topic of my conversation: the Oculus Rift will block sight of such peripherals, which may or may not cause problems.

You can pry a wheel and pedals out of my hands, only at such time that cars no longer feature such input methods. Arcade race games, sure I'll flap around with my hands and arms with some strange toys, but actual simulation racing? I'm sticking to semi-real-looking-peripherals.

[Red Storm]

My guess is a box (can be called a PC or console) running a custom Linux distro made for Steam.

[Texashiker]

We’re frustrated by the lack of innovation in the computer hardware space though, so we’re jumping in.”

But valve still uses dx9 in its games?

If anything, valve has not been keeping up with the times.

[IAteYourMother]

Originally Posted by Texashiker

But valve still uses dx9 in its games?

If anything, valve has not been keeping up with the times.

what does that have to do with hardware innovation?

[Texashiker]

Originally Posted by IAteYourMother

what does that have to do with hardware innovation?

Seems to me valve is using a contradiction of terms.

Valve says hardware developers lack innovation, but valve is not porting its games to use the latest hardware or software.

Why would vale want to develop hardware, when the company does not use advantages the current hardware offers?

[destrekor]

Originally Posted by Zenoth

Cool, may their mices, controllers and keyboards shine for us gamers.

Now, give me Half-Life 3.

Damn straight this should be there focus.

Between HL2 Episode Two, and today, Duke Nukem Forever was even released! DNF! What the hell Valve?! You got beat by vaporware!