League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[thejunglegod]

I was so psyched when i hit 30 around a couple days back so that i could jump into ranked. Pfffffffffffffffffff
16 chars??? i only own 7 and with 450 ip in the bank i've got ways to go before i can join in. FML. I think i may have to shell out some dough to speed things up further.

[Maleficus]

Originally Posted by thejunglegod

I was so psyched when i hit 30 around a couple days back so that i could jump into ranked. Pfffffffffffffffffff
16 chars??? i only own 7 and with 450 ip in the bank i've got ways to go before i can join in. FML. I think i may have to shell out some dough to speed things up further.

don't do it, it's a trap.

keep building chars, find ones you like, get gud, then get trolled in ranked like the rest of us. winning those placement matches is absolutely necessary.

[thejunglegod]

Originally Posted by Maleficus

don't do it, it's a trap. keep building chars, find ones you like, get gud, then get trolled in ranked like the rest of us. winning those placement matches is absolutely necessary.

Hmm thought as much. Damn, this is more farming than i had to in WOW. I don't even have enough ip to get runes for an alternate build for my main - AP Kog. Guessi'll have to keep playing more matches. Thanks.

[Mopetar]

Anyone here jungle Udyr at all? I recently picked him up and have been having an absolute blast with him. He clears fast, is pretty tanky, and with bear stance you can gank pretty easily. Does he have any real downsides beyond lack of built-in escape mechanism?

[krnmastersgt]

Originally Posted by Mopetar

Anyone here jungle Udyr at all? I recently picked him up and have been having an absolute blast with him. He clears fast, is pretty tanky, and with bear stance you can gank pretty easily. Does he have any real downsides beyond lack of built-in escape mechanism?

Lack of gapclose, has no ranged ability to poke or harass, skillset doesn't deliver much in terms of damage compared to many other junglers, once he falls behind he stays behind.

That being said if he can get off a few ganks before 5-6 then he should be rock solid for the entire game, got great mid-game damage output if he can get his HoG and Philo quickly so that he has Wit's End before 20 minutes.

[Fenixgoon]

Originally Posted by krnmastersgt

Lack of gapclose, has no ranged ability to poke or harass, skillset doesn't deliver much in terms of damage compared to many other junglers, once he falls behind he stays behind.

That being said if he can get off a few ganks before 5-6 then he should be rock solid for the entire game, got great mid-game damage output if he can get his HoG and Philo quickly so that he has Wit's End before 20 minutes.

that can be said of plenty of champs. udyr is a pretty solid jungle. and he can be downright scary sometimes since turtle stance can let him be super tanky.

can't remember if anyone played him at the NA regionals this weekend though.

[EDUSAN]

udyr is easy in jungle, but its hard to master when ganking... later on, if you built him tanky enough he can just do whatever he pleases and go wherever he pleases (like mundo) and cant be killed and cant be catched

but he is a pain to play with in the beginning.

So... i got 4 friends and we made a ranked team for a tournament that is being done in here. I got to play solo top, but i never really played any spot for a long time before so i have like a couple champs in each position...

What are the champions doing TOP effectively nowadays?
I only play Yorick, yesterday i played Olaf and was great. I play Riven too but i find her too squishy at the beginning against some matchups.

What champs are a MUST HAVE when doing TOP?

[crownjules]

Jax, Vlad, Rumble, Shen (if he's not banned) are some other common top picks.

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally Posted by EDUSAN

udyr is easy in jungle, but its hard to master when ganking... later on, if you built him tanky enough he can just do whatever he pleases and go wherever he pleases (like mundo) and cant be killed and cant be catched

but he is a pain to play with in the beginning.

So... i got 4 friends and we made a ranked team for a tournament that is being done in here. I got to play solo top, but i never really played any spot for a long time before so i have like a couple champs in each position...

What are the champions doing TOP effectively nowadays?
I only play Yorick, yesterday i played Olaf and was great. I play Riven too but i find her too squishy at the beginning against some matchups.

What champs are a MUST HAVE when doing TOP?

Riven is not a squishy top champion by any means. She can duel with almost any champion top and win, save for like 4 champions that are perfectly managable if you just farm.

[EDUSAN]

it was agaisnt an akali...we went even in trades the first levels....but i ended up losing since her cooldowns are shorter...

Jax is being played top? that is weird...isnt he pretty weak early game? i should try (and buy) rumble i guess

I have seen some jayce going top...its a nice alternative to have 2 ranged ad

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally Posted by EDUSAN

it was agaisnt an akali...we went even in trades the first levels....but i ended up losing since her cooldowns are shorter...

Jax is being played top? that is weird...isnt he pretty weak early game? i should try (and buy) rumble i guess

I have seen some jayce going top...its a nice alternative to have 2 ranged ad

Riven is a ridiculously strong hard counter to akali. An EXTREMELY hard counter. At level 6, you can kill her in one combo.

Jax is extremely strong throughout the game. He is a champion that deals tons of DPS and is very tanky with very few items.

Jayce is best as an top AD bruiser. not a ranged AD. His ranged attacks are only harass, during a fight, he should be in melee mode.

[imported_Computer MAn]

Originally Posted by Mopetar

Anyone here jungle Udyr at all? I recently picked him up and have been having an absolute blast with him. He clears fast, is pretty tanky, and with bear stance you can gank pretty easily. Does he have any real downsides beyond lack of built-in escape mechanism?

He doesn't really fit the support jungle style that has come into prevalence lately. There just isn't enough gold in the jungle to keep your damage viable so you mainly become a stun bot late game. You will notice a lot of the jungles that are popular today have strong initiates late game so that their damage doesn't need to be relevant. Udyr lacks the initiate of Malphite and Ammumu and doesn't have the utility of Nunu.

As it was posted in here as well Udyr lacks a gap closer which gives him a lot of problems with the popular champions. Orianna, Gragas, Jayce, Jax, Corki, Ezreal, Graves, Riven are all played extensively in solo queue, have reliable escapes, and Udyr has no real way to catch up to them.

[krnmastersgt]

Darius is a pretty solid top once you get used to him, has bad match-ups but he doesn't stay behind very long if you know what you're doing. Almost no one can fight you at level 6 and win a trade if you properly utilize the spin.

Jax is very strong if he can get an early lead, if you really want to use Jax top get your jungle to level 2-4 gank it more than once, once you've established a good lead it's almost impossible to lose the lane unless you don't ward for the opposing jungle.

Riven is a very VERY strong top, but you have to be aggressive with her otherwise most tops will just poke you and force you out of the lane. At level 3 you should have 1 rank in everything and be harassing the hell out of them: Q onto them, hit W, get an auto off, then E away.

Lee Sin is also one of my favorite tops, he can deal with most champs but you have to play him a lot to get used to top laning him well.

There's also the recently popular AP Nunu top, due to his kit he's almost impossible for every champ to lane against him. Unless you possess the ability to kill him from full hp in 1-2 rounds of burst he will likely just outharass you and then heal right back up again.

I would recommend against Jayce, he's got incredibly strong laning but unless he cements a HUGE lead he can't do much in teamfights compared to the other bruisers.

Irelia is also an excellent top laner, don't underestimate how much rank 3 W does at level 5 because it is quite a bit of true damage and healing.

[Firsttime]

Udyr is awesome. He's like Shyvanna, he's a clear jungler with slightly weak ganks against lanes with no cc. He is great at ganking lanes with a little bit of setup though. Bear stance is solid. He's a really good counter jungleler too. In organizedish play there are junglers who don't focus on lanes but on setting the other jungle behind or outscaling them. Udyr is one of those.

I'm in love with speedfarming Sunfire/Abyssal junglers right now. Amumu/Maphite being the best of those. I like killing things and massive combos. Also Nautalis. But he's more Frozen Heart/Abyssal.

I've been playing jungle almost exclusively for the past few months. It's a lot of fun. You get to focus on outplaying their whole team. It gets exponentially more fun the more people you have on vent and can coordinate things with.

[crownjules]

New pricing annoucements:

Garen is being reduced to 450IP and 260RP.
Caitlin and Maokai are both being reduced to 4800IP and 790RP.

Also, for the next six days they're doubling the bonus amount of RP you get when purchasing RP (ex. $10 will get you 1460 up from 1380). They are also adding in a new $100 RP purchase option which will get you 13K + 2K (17K total with the bonus).

[thejunglegod]

^^ Nice. Ideal time to spend some moolah i guess. I've been wanting a skin for my Kogmaw since a long time.

[HumblePie]

Hey guys, been playing again off and on. Took a hiatus to play Secret World and am still playing a bit of Guild Wars 2.

Ran across this interesting read.

http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a...leman-elo-hell

Which also links to 5hitcombo's post about no elo hell. The problem I find with their whole argument for no elo hell is they fail to take into consideration the two major components of WHY people have elo hell.

What is elo hell? being stuck at an elo level where as a player you are probably a lot better than. Both article make mention that some games, no matter how good you are as a player, are completely un-winnable and can not be carried. But their biggest argument for no elo hell is that as you increase your elo level, not only are your team mates better, but so are your opponents. Which is a very true statement to a degree.

They just fail to address the main concerns about WHY there is an elo hell. These are my argument points to elo hell.

1) Amount of games played.

A person with high elo is going to typically have tons of games played in ranked. Hundreds if not thousands. This also lends credence to that fact that these people play often enough to have a lot of practice. Which is true. However, the game mechanics are in themselves quiet simple for the vast majority of champs and team comps. A person does not really need 100 games per champion to master the game mechanics. Not at all. Even they mention that in the articles. The argument I have in regards to games is not everyone who is good CAN dedicate 10 hours of gaming to ranked games day in and day out. Why is that needed? The more games you play, the better your chance of having more wins over losses. Not to mention the match making system is a bit better in matching up your next game based off your most recent string as other similar players are currently also playing.

The problem comes in for elo hell where good players can only play 1 or 2 rank games every so often. The match making system tries to match you up with others of a similar elo as well as match people on winning streaks with people on losing streaks. A good player on a losing streak playing several games in a row will eventually be matched up with current players on winning streaks that are also recent. That does NOT happen as nicely when a person can only play every so often. The system may not match you up correctly because of that.

2) True solo versus duo/solo.

The casual good or even great player may only be able to do an actual SOLO ranked game here or there. While someone playing 10 hours is more likely to have a good friend to duo with. Duoing makes a HUGE impact on games won over a long stretch of time. 2 good players on a team every time stacks the odds on winning over 1 for sure good player.

3) Being on a team of like minded players actually trying to EARN elo.

This mindset is significantly different at higher versus lower elos. The higher you go, the more likely players on both teams are actually going to play for 20 minute games. Why? It's MUCH better to play for a 20 minute game than an hour long game win or lose. Players going for 20 minute games are going to play 3 games in that same space and are more likely to win 2 out 3 in that time frame. Playing shorter games and making those decisive is massive to gaining elo. Lower elo players just rarely get this concept. At the 20 minute mark your team is either winning decisively or surrender. Period. Once you are the lower end of the elo spectrum, most players would rather play out a losing game for an hour than just move on even if they know they will lose. Many do it to be spiteful. Again, I'm not saying that there can't be a comeback win. I'm just saying it's pointless. Why waste an hour or more on a comeback win, when you could just take 1 loss and have a higher chance of 2 or more wins in that same time frame the 1 come back win took? You'll earn far more elo over all with that mindset than the one of trying to play out every game to a prolonged conclusion.

4) Early elo makes a HUGE difference.

Those starting ranked for the first time are going to get massive elo gains. If you are a good player and starting ranked, you have a greater chance of winning a few games in a row to garner a very high elo level. 10 wins off the bat from scratch will put you over 1800+ elo. A player with 400 wins and 400 losses doing a 10 game win streak will still be at most 1300ish elo. Once you've gained a good amount of elo, a single loss here or there won't subtract as much.




And therein lies the biggest problems with elo hell. There are a few more minor nitpicks, like the match making system and what elo is all based off on that also contributes to elo hell, but not as much. Basically you could be one of the games best players, but if you got a really bad start with a large losing streak when starting rank due to un-winnable games you may be stuck permanently in elo hell. More so if that same great player can only play very casually and rarely are able to duo over solo.

[krnmastersgt]

Just to counter that argument Humble, a few pro tier players have actually intentionally thrown games on alts and such to drop to extremely low ELOs (<200 for Jaximus) and then shown its possible to solo your way back up into contention.

I also don't think there is an ELO hell, but there is a higher likelyhood of a leaver/troll popping up the lower in ELO you go, although I am only talking from 1200+ games as I've always been above that on my accounts.

I'm too busy playing GW2 lately to grind any ELO

[thejunglegod]

Originally Posted by krnmastersgt

a few pro tier players have actually intentionally thrown games on alts and such to drop to extremely low ELOs (<200 for Jaximus) and then shown its possible to solo your way back up into contention.

Aren't these trolls too if they're throwing away games?

And damn! I totall forgot about the GW2 release

[krnmastersgt]

Originally Posted by thejunglegod

Aren't these trolls too if they're throwing away games?

And damn! I totall forgot about the GW2 release

Yes it is, it sucked for the people that had them in the game.

[thejunglegod]

Originally Posted by krnmastersgt

Yes it is, it sucked for the people that had them in the game.

Those must be some seriously pissed off people. Throwing away ranked games :O

[Firsttime]

Back when you could que dodge and loose Elo they just did that. I wasn't aware people actually went to the effort now to loose games to get low elo.

But yeah. High rated players have shown time and time again that if there is an Elo hell it isn't very extreme. You may be able to keep up with 1400 players and be stuck in the 1300's. But there aren't any 2k players languishing in the 800's.

[ImpulsE69]

They also proved in doing that that 1 or 2 people CAN throw a game for everyone else, which is mostly "elo hell" is. It happens so often its rediculous.

Assume that the teams are evenly matched, statistically the team with 5 people playing vs 4 should win no matter what. Now consider that teams are rarely evenly matched and you are on the "low end" team and you are down 1 or 2 people. You stand very little chance to win. The character that is afk can make a big shift in this as well. Some won't matter as much as others and depending on who's fed or isn't. If you have no pusher, and they have a strong pusher or 2, etc etc.

Dragging out a game to an hour can make the difference because of the long death times. I've brought games back from nexus this way. It's slow and boring..but it does work. Not sure it's worth the effort though.

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by krnmastersgt

Just to counter that argument Humble, a few pro tier players have actually intentionally thrown games on alts and such to drop to extremely low ELOs (<200 for Jaximus) and then shown its possible to solo your way back up into contention.

I also don't think there is an ELO hell, but there is a higher likelyhood of a leaver/troll popping up the lower in ELO you go, although I am only talking from 1200+ games as I've always been above that on my accounts.

I'm too busy playing GW2 lately to grind any ELO

A couple of them did that with alt accounts. Yes. But even on those alt accounts they never got that high on their elo like their main. Higher than 1300 for sure though. But every single time I saw that, want to know how they did that?

1) Douing with someone else good. Not a single one of the ones I know or heard about got out of that low elo completely alone.

2) Playing a massive amount of games for extended stretches of time. Not a single one of them played a game or 2 a day and then stopped to wait to try the next day.

3) They played massively aggressive games to either win at the 20 minute mark or massively throw games. St Viscious was either dominating for example with 20+ kills or losing spectacularly with 20+ deaths when he did that. He would do it to get the games over with sooner.


Those are the main things which cause elo hell for good players. Those exact key points. A good player with another person they can duo with and plenty of time to play a ton of games will pull out of a low elo eventually is EXACTLY my argument.

[Kabob]

Originally Posted by crownjules

New pricing annoucements:

Garen is being reduced to 450IP and 260RP.
Caitlin and Maokai are both being reduced to 4800IP and 790RP.

Also, for the next six days they're doubling the bonus amount of RP you get when purchasing RP (ex. $10 will get you 1460 up from 1380). They are also adding in a new $100 RP purchase option which will get you 13K + 2K (17K total with the bonus).

Interesting that they're creating a new 790 RP price point, hopefully all the 4800 IP champs will drop there.

I saw someone mention a good idea a few weeks ago, considering how many champs there are and how slowly their prices drop Riot should permanently drop the price of one older champion every time they release a new one. Just go in the order they were released in or something but still charging 6300 IP for Vlad, Ezreal, and Kog'Maw is (IMHO) kinda silly considering how long they've been out. All of 'em have been out longer than Maokai.

I also don't like how when they first started discounting champions the drop was 6300 IP to 3150 and suddenly it was only down to 4800.