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Old 08-12-2012, 10:26 AM   #226
HeXen
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Linux is too fragmented and beyond that, you have too many in that community that believe completely in 100% open source, which makes it a pain for any proprietary drivers or software, some of which, many of us need to be default.
No itunes, No Netflix, some codecs like AAC are a pain to get functioning and converted properly and getting good Blu ray support among some other things isn't typically a click away or anything. Many apps are very generic or sometimes require i use 2 different apps to do something, not often updated and far less vigorous in creations of new apps than say Android is for mobile.

I'd hate to say how many command lines i had to google, copy n past into terminal just to get my machine doable. I could go on with many complaints about Linux. But overall, i like it, it even feels more secure and i can load and swap between apps with just my mouse far faster. It really just needs more commercial support and a less stubborn community. So it would be nice if Google stepped up to the desktop plate.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:54 AM   #227
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Interesting article over at TechRepublic about Corporate adoption of Windows 8 with both their cons and pros:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/tec...-a-glance/7911

Doesn't look good for the business world (although we already knew this).
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by DarkVision View Post
Linux is too fragmented and beyond that, you have too many in that community that believe completely in 100% open source, which makes it a pain for any proprietary drivers or software, some of which, many of us need to be default.
No itunes, No Netflix, some codecs like AAC are a pain to get functioning and converted properly and getting good Blu ray support among some other things isn't typically a click away or anything. Many apps are very generic or sometimes require i use 2 different apps to do something, not often updated and far less vigorous in creations of new apps than say Android is for mobile.

I'd hate to say how many command lines i had to google, copy n past into terminal just to get my machine doable. I could go on with many complaints about Linux. But overall, i like it, it even feels more secure and i can load and swap between apps with just my mouse far faster. It really just needs more commercial support and a less stubborn community. So it would be nice if Google stepped up to the desktop plate.
I agree. Those that think people will jump ship to linux after using Windows 8 are kidding themselves. There's even more of a learning curve with linux than there is Windows 8. I don't see that changing for the average non technical user any time soon.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #229
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I agree. Those that think people will jump ship to linux after using Windows 8 are kidding themselves. There's even more of a learning curve with linux than there is Windows 8. I don't see that changing for the average non technical user any time soon.
Yeah. I bet there will be a bump, but more of a single-digits bump. I do business support (mostly for lawyers, insurance offices, and medical sites). I am already seeing a fairly notable push in the lawyer world to Mac, even though it annoys me as many software suites just don't work on them, a bit less so with the medical due to very very proprietary software that often requires XP (!!) to run.

I bet Win8 will be more of a boon to Apple than to Linux, though I expect a little boost to each.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #230
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I bet Win8 will be more of a boon to Apple than to Linux, though I expect a little boost to each.
If Steam gets on GNU/Linux, I think there could be a noticeable bump from the enthusiast crowd. Gamers already tend to be tweakers, and technologically inclined. They're more willing to try new things, and work out minor problems. I don't think there'll be a bump from "normal" people, there there may be a slow creep of adoption if the gamers jump on board, and start recommending/supporting GNU/Linux systems.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #231
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If Steam gets on GNU/Linux, I think there could be a noticeable bump from the enthusiast crowd. Gamers already tend to be tweakers, and technologically inclined. They're more willing to try new things, and work out minor problems. I don't think there'll be a bump from "normal" people, there there may be a slow creep of adoption if the gamers jump on board, and start recommending/supporting GNU/Linux systems.
Steam support is one thing, actual porting of games to Linux is another. I just want to point out to people that Steam is a distribution platform, not a game engine. One only needs to take a look at the games available for the Mac to see why Linux support isn't the solution to this problem.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #232
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Steam support is one thing, actual porting of games to Linux is another. I just want to point out to people that Steam is a distribution platform, not a game engine. One only needs to take a look at the games available for the Mac to see why Linux support isn't the solution to this problem.
Sure. I assume everyone interprets "Steam on GNU/Linux" as meaning the delivery platform, as well as ported games. A delivery system with nothing to deliver is useless :^D
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:10 AM   #233
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...It's going to sell well like Windows always does...
I would argue that point. It's doesn't exactly "sell" per se. If a copy of Windows was "sold", it would involve a consumer performing a transaction to purchase Windows. Instead consumers are purchasing computers that come pre-installed with Windows, and they are not (in 99.9999% of all cases) given the option to choose an operating system, or to buy a laptop OS free. So, Windows is being "pushed" onto the market in an extremely anti-competitive manner.

You buy a new laptop from an OEM. It's going to be bundled with Windows, whether you like it or not (and whether you use it or not). Part of the price you pay for the laptop pays for a Windows license. I would argue that this is not a sale, it's more like corporate-force-feeding.
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:27 AM   #234
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Windows may well be sold in an anti competitive way, but OS X is more anti competitive. You can't buy hardware from anyone/build your own and get Mac OS X for it without breaking the law (and quite often stuff doesn't work). Linux is also only sold by a small number of vendors (Dell being the big one) but the problem there is again lack of hardware choice.

In the end what worries me more is that building laptops isn't really possible. You can't choose the hardware you want to combine and have a nice standards based build. That limits your hardware/software options considerably to what the market throws out, which means bundling definitely is a problem.

Its less of a problem in the desktop space where the option to buy and build remains and you can then choose whatever OS you want without having to use a bundled licence.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:58 PM   #235
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If Steam gets on GNU/Linux, I think there could be a noticeable bump from the enthusiast crowd. Gamers already tend to be tweakers, and technologically inclined. They're more willing to try new things, and work out minor problems. I don't think there'll be a bump from "normal" people, there there may be a slow creep of adoption if the gamers jump on board, and start recommending/supporting GNU/Linux systems.
I think the biggest headache we'd see from something like that is the lack on unification from Linux distro developers. Steam will eventually have to pick a single distribution (most likely to be Ubuntu) to develop for. Yes there will be other distros that could use it with some tweaking, but the scattered development schedules/patterns/styles of each different distro will make it extremely difficult to get the delivery platform, let alone the source engine, to work well on all of them.

Let's pretend they do jump on Ubuntu, and it becomes more popular. I think you'd see a bandwagon effect with third party developers. Everything will work out for ubuntu, but not for other distros. This includes touch capability, hardware support, etc.

If they're not careful, you'd have the same situation going on with Ubuntu as we do now with Windows, it's the primary OS for business/pleasure on multiple hardware platforms because everyone is already there.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:34 PM   #236
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I think the biggest headache we'd see from something like that is the lack on unification from Linux distro developers. Steam will eventually have to pick a single distribution (most likely to be Ubuntu) to develop for. Yes there will be other distros that could use it with some tweaking, but the scattered development schedules/patterns/styles of each different distro will make it extremely difficult to get the delivery platform, let alone the source engine, to work well on all of them.

Let's pretend they do jump on Ubuntu, and it becomes more popular. I think you'd see a bandwagon effect with third party developers. Everything will work out for ubuntu, but not for other distros. This includes touch capability, hardware support, etc.

If they're not careful, you'd have the same situation going on with Ubuntu as we do now with Windows, it's the primary OS for business/pleasure on multiple hardware platforms because everyone is already there.
Yeah I'm all for having more stuff support Linux but that's my fear as well. I don't want a distro like Ubuntu to end up being just another Windows. Heck, look at what Google has been doing lately, they've been starting to suck a lot. I really don't want to see Ubuntu or worse, Linux as a whole, go that route.

I think what is needed for Linux is a unified package system and devs need to stop using so many dependencies. Things should be as stand alone as possible even if it means duplicate libs, who cares, disk space is cheap. Any special libs and stuff should be part of the app, rather than the app depending on it already being on the system, and in often cases, in a very specific location. This is a big reason why something that works on one distro wont work in the other, that other distro may in fact have a certain dependancy but it's somewhere else or named differently.

For example in Debian Apache server is called apache2, while in RH it's called httpd. So a program that's looking for httpd wont install even though apache2 is installed.

In Windows there used to be DLL hell, well in Linux it's always been dependency hell.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:26 AM   #237
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What's funny to me is some people actually think that waving your hands all over a desktop monitor is the wave of the future...

I'd invite those that think so, to right now lift their arms up and poke around all over their desktop monitor. Great. Now do that for 8 hours straight. That's YOUR future maybe, not mine.

Moving your wrist a few millimeters to travel all over the screen is infinitely more efficient. And until human hands become invisible, you're not obstructing your own view.
Excellent points and I agree completely vs the mouse on a normal desktop computer.

At work all the machines are run by computers and before you can run any of the machines you must enter a few parameters and then you are good to go. The touchscreen works perfect for this type of thing. I can get the touchscreen machine going in about 4 seconds. The touchscreen is much faster and easier to use than the track-point equipped machines. Touch-pads are okay but the touchscreen is the best.

They don't use mice because they would not last in an industrial environment.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:28 AM   #238
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Excellent points and I agree completely vs the mouse on a normal desktop computer.

At work all the machines are run by computers and before you can run any of the machines you must enter a few parameters and then you are good to go. The touchscreen works perfect for this type of thing. I can get the touchscreen machine going in about 4 seconds. The touchscreen is much faster and easier to use than the track-point equipped machines. Touch-pads are okay but the touchscreen is the best.

They don't use mice because they would not last in an industrial environment.
Well, yeah! Clearly for that sort of thing touch is the way to go. But I think all those Star-Trek characters prodding at vertical touch-screens all day at their desk-bound workstations are going to be suing Starfleet for industrial injuries compensation before long!

Not for nothing were all the doors and machinery in Doom 3 operated by (in-game) touchscreens!

In fact, that's kinda what Metro reminds me off - the sort of interfaces you get on _in-game_ computers.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:36 AM   #239
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good posts. how close would you have to sit really? unless you use your monitor at full arms length, aren't you talking about the monitor being about a foot away*? what's that going to do for your eyes long term? then there's the smudges (eating while using their PC).

* a foot away guessing that your elbows will be supported by a padded desk directly in front of you. otherwise your arms will be tired within an hour.

side note - is there any way to uninstall metro apps? somehow i keep going into the music app and my metro screen has no "desktop" tile anymore. i want to uninstall every single metro app if possible
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:24 AM   #240
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Touch will probably never be that useful for desktops, but laptops already outsell them. It's not that having a laptop with touch means it must be used, but sometimes touch is the best method of input.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:03 PM   #241
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but sometimes touch is the best method of input.
That's what she said.

My first impression of Windows 8 is that Metro sucks. Haven't tried it without Metro (can you do that?) so can't comment on that yet?
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:02 PM   #242
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side note - is there any way to uninstall metro apps? somehow i keep going into the music app and my metro screen has no "desktop" tile anymore. i want to uninstall every single metro app if possible
well found out where the apps are stored and deleted them. no more stupid metro crap.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:37 PM   #243
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To be honest, the new Start screen wouldn't bother me that much if they gave users the ability to disable it.

Instead, they're trying a cram an interface designed for a 10 inch tablet down everyone's throats, even though it is pointless for people with large screen desktop displays. Forcing people to install unsupported third party software to get around their bad decision isn't cool, Microsoft.
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