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Old 05-03-2012, 10:10 AM   #1
JEDIYoda
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Default Hamas says it's holding talks with 5 EU countries

What is wrong with this picture???
Lets see recognition of israel....thats reasonable!!

Next --- Israel controls war won territories.....thats also reasonable...
You attack Israel they fight back and win territory due to your attack -- reasonable!

Now you(Palestinians) cry because they will not give back territories that you lost attacking Israel -- thats not reasonable! You can`t attack,lose and then pretend nothing ever happened!!

War won means just that!! It`s embarrassing to be the attacker and lose territory!!


http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-says-hol...192353113.html

BEIRUT (AP) — Hamas has been holding secret political talks with five European Union member states in recent months, a senior official in the Islamic militant group told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

If confirmed, such talks would be a sign that the isolation of the Gaza-based Palestinian movement is easing in the wake of the Arab Spring uprisings that have brought Islamists to power in parts of the Middle East.

The EU and the U.S consider Hamas a terror group and refuse to deal with it unless it renounces violence and recognizes Israel.

However, the West is reassessing its Mideast policy following the uprisings of the past year that toppled several pro-Western regimes in the region and gave rise to the Hamas parent movement, the pan-Arab Muslim Brotherhood.

It appeared possible that some EU member states are now softening their approach toward Hamas.

In an interview Wednesday, Beirut-based Hamas official Osama Hamdan said his group has been talking to government officials from five major EU member states in recent months. He would not list the countries.

"I can say it's an important level (of officials), without defining whether it's junior or senior, and the channels are working," said Hamdan, who handles the group's foreign relations and spoke at a Hamas office in Beirut's southern Dahiya neighborhood. "It's not just a contact. It's channels of talking."

Hamas won Palestinian parliament elections in 2006 and seized control of the Gaza Strip by force a year later. Since then, the West has demanded that the group recognize Israel and renounce violence, in exchange for international acceptance. The Islamists, whose top leaders live outside the Palestinian territories, have largely observed an unofficial truce with Israel in recent years but balk at recognizing Israel.

Hamdan is the first Hamas official to speak publicly and in some detail about purported contacts with Western governments.

In Gaza, three Hamas officials said Britain, France and the Netherlands are among the countries involved in backchannel talks. Two also mentioned Austria, and one added Sweden to the list. The officials said talks have been held in Gaza, Lebanon, Egypt and Turkey. The three spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the diplomatic contacts.

Officials in Britain, France, Austria and the Netherlands denied their governments are conducting talks with Hamas, while officials in Sweden could not immediately be reached for comment.

In the backchannel talks, Hamas is seeking assurances that European countries will recognize the outcome of future Palestinian elections, Hamdan said. It's not clear when such elections would be held, since they are linked to a stalled reconciliation agreement between Hamas and its main rival, Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

"They have to accept the Palestinian democracy," Hamdan said of the international community. "We believe that if ... they are ready to accept the results, regardless to the names and the organizations, that would be fine for the Palestinians."

Hamdan said he believes the changes in the region, with its resurgence of Islamist movements, have prompted some European countries to review their policy toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including Hamas. "I think the Europeans also understand that if they want to deal with the region in the Arab Spring, they will face big questions from the region toward the Palestinian cause," he said.

Hamdan said European officials keep bringing up the issue of recognition of Israel in backchannel talks, but that Hamas won't budge.

Hamdan and others in Hamas argue that recognition cannot be granted as long as Israel controls war-won territories the Palestinians want for a state. The Hamas founding charter calls for Israel's destruction. In recent years, senior Hamas officials held out the possibility of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but they refuse to say this could be the permanent solution to the conflict.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said he couldn't confirm European meetings with Hamas. The group can only play a role if it meets the long-standing demands by the international community, he said.

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Last edited by JEDIYoda; 05-03-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:14 AM   #2
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It is always smart to hold back channel meetings with enemies to peace. Talking is a good thing, though I am doubtful HAMAS will actually recognize Israel's right to exist.

Maybe they will eventually realize they are directly disobeying Allah by not agreeing to peace with Israel. If they do, then peace may very well be achievable.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:21 AM   #3
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Hamas does not recognize Israel and be it Fatah of Hamas, Israel has no respect for Palestinian human rights.

But like it or not, both Israel and Hamas are going to have to talk to each other. And if they ink a deal, they are going to have to recognize each others right to exists.

Basically Hamas is fairly united and talking to Europe, but since Israel will be in the midst of new elections, we can ask how can Hamas talk to Israel when there is no real, Israeli government standing?
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
And if they ink a deal, they are going to have to recognize each others right to exists.
This is why I am confident HAMAS will not ink a deal with Israel. Their own charter says Israel must be destroyed. They even condemn the PLO in their charter for not demanding the same thing.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:28 AM   #5
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Yet LL claims that Fatah is the one Israel should be talking to;

Fatah is not the legit elected representative of the Palestinians.

Therefore, if there is legit Israeli government and no legit Palestinian government what is all this BS about talks; no one is apparently authorized to sign off.

Just like last year when Abbas refused to show up - he knew he did not have the authorization.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by EagleKeeper View Post
Yet LL claims that Fatah is the one Israel should be talking to;

Fatah is not the legit elected representative of the Palestinians.

Therefore, if there is legit Israeli government and no legit Palestinian government what is all this BS about talks; no one is apparently authorized to sign off.

Just like last year when Abbas refused to show up - he knew he did not have the authorization.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As EK whistles past the graveyard but it changes nothing. Hamas is talking to the EU, and as of yet, not one EU head as exploded as they talk to Hamas who are supposed to be a terrorists organization by only the EU and the USA. Views were exchanged, future talks will be planned, and if Hamas wants to become credible as a diplomatic entity, they will have to change some of their policies and gain support from surrounding Arab States. As its somewhat unrealistic to expect radical changes in EU and Hamas views in even a month or two period. But still, regardless if Israel likes it or not, Hamas was legitimately elected to represent the people of Gaza. And now as Hamas reaches out diplomatically to an EU that has repeatedly asked Israel to quit settling in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, as Israel gets their EU answer for Israel's refusal to keep settling.

We must also remember, the EU was deeply stung by the events of the Arab spring and the revolution in Libya that deprived many EU countries of much of their normal oil markets.
Israel hurt the EU because its a mid-east pariah state, Uncle Sammie at least helped shorten the Libyan revolution, but when the smoke cleared, it was many new Islamic governments who have oil that the EU will have to depend on. The people of the EU are not stupid or slaves to US foreign policy, The EU likely sees that protecting their oil markets does not through totally supporting the US, and rather as a wake up call to the EU that they better have more friendly relations with Arab States. And if talking to Hamas is the down payment, its an EU bargain that is cheap at the price.

I can also envision, once the MB takes over total control of Egypt, it may becomes likely that Egypt will push very hard for a independent Hamas State that will act as buffer state between Egypt and Israel. Because the Israeli embargo of the economy of Gaza is now dead as a dodo. Fatah is also likely to do the same diplomatic outreach, And as trade routes open up between Egypt, the West Bank, and Jordan, its not going to be good for current Israeli policy, but still it may work out for the best for Israel in the long run. Because if it results in a Palestinian State, Israel can then then become an accepted and productive member of the mid-east community.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
if Hamas wants to become credible as a diplomatic entity, they will have to change some of their policies and gain support from surrounding Arab States
Let them change two policies and Israel will be happy to work on solving the other issues.

If not ....

The economic embargo of Gaza is dead? Then why are supplies still coming through Israel. Gaza can not stand on its own; Egypt can not support them.


Realize that if Israel chooses to; they have control over the utility infrastructure needed by Gaza.

Contracts/treaties have been shown now to mean nothing to Egypt; maybe Israel needs to follow suit.


Maybe Hamas talking to the EU will accomplish something that Arafat and Abbas could not.
They will listen to what needed to be done to be accepted into the international community.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:35 PM   #8
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EK,

(1) Peddle your bullshit to someone who will believe it. Did it sail over your head, the fact that the fact that the EU is talking to Hamas, is a strong indication that the EU does not believe Israel. Or did you forget the recent French President Sacosy's statement that Netanyuhu is a liar.

(2) When you point out, " Then why are supplies still coming through Israel. Gaza can not stand on its own; Egypt can not support them."

As EK conveniently forgets, Israel still collects taxes in Gaza, and its outrageous and illegal for Israel to decline to redistribute those funds owed to the Hamas government. Even the US GOP congress would allow it.

But EK, I have to agree with your last statement, maybe the EU will finally convince Israel to go back to 1967 borders and cease its illegal and baseless control of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, a fact 44 years overdue.

As I should also mention the fact, the EU questions are only not even 20% of the problems the illegal Israeli occupation now faces.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:21 PM   #9
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This is Hamas version. Other nations may be talking via back channels. I'd be surprised if they hadn't been. Means nothing until other nations state an official position.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
(1) Peddle your bullshit to someone who will believe it. Did it sail over your head, the fact that the fact that the EU is talking to Hamas, is a strong indication that the EU does not believe Israel. Or did you forget the recent French President Sacosy's statement that Netanyuhu is a liar. --as usual you have not read the article and if you have then you are assuming out your ass again.....so what influence on the rest of the world does the French President have anyways?? Aren`t the French the only nation in the world to order their tanks with two reverse gears....

(2) When you point out, " Then why are supplies still coming through Israel. Gaza can not stand on its own; Egypt can not support them."

As EK conveniently forgets, Israel still collects taxes in Gaza, and its outrageous and illegal for Israel to decline to redistribute those funds owed to the Hamas government. Even the US GOP congress would allow it. -- so what is your point again???

But EK, I have to agree with your last statement, maybe the EU will finally convince Israel to go back to 1967 borders and cease its illegal and baseless control of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, a fact 44 years overdue. --- 1967 borders will never ever happen..in this lifetime or any other lifetime!! You cannot defend those borders!

As I should also mention the fact, the EU questions are only not even 20% of the problems the illegal Israeli occupation now faces.-- again you are babbling about Israeli problems yet quite frankly all it is, is babble...
I really hope that you do not believe any of the BS you are spouting!!
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