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Old 04-04-2012, 12:22 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by WelshBloke View Post
I doubt it, it's going to be hard for Microsoft to get developers to write native metro apps if everyone just turns it off.
My hope (fantasy?) is that Metro will be disable-able on desktop Windows 8, and that the developers for Metro apps will concentrate on tablet/mobile phone markets.

If, by any chance, some worthy Metro apps intended for tablets/phones turn out to be blockbusters, maybe some of us Luddites will be tempted to re-enable Metro? No. Don't really think so.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:08 PM   #527
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I really don't understand what all the ruckus is about, it took me less than a day to get used to the Metro interface, and now I feel like its just about as good as anything.

Maybe people are simply so against feeling completely helpless at the very get go, which was certainly how I felt when first got Windows 8 up and running and I immediately opened up the Calendar App and then spent the next few minutes trying to figure out how to get out of it.

But yeah, ultimately it seems to be just as functional as before if not more so for one's most used apps, and when it came to the nitty gritty I counted 1 extra mouse click vs. Win7 in order to get to something more obscure like the Device Manager through clicks alone.

I've got a feeling there's going to be a lot of irrational hate against 8 much like how there was against Vista, and I also imagine a lot of it will be from people with hardware that is too low end.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:05 PM   #528
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It really isn't irrational. It's an inferior, hobbled design. Just look at basic things like the start screen tiles for desktop apps. The important things to identify what you're looking for are its icon and title. What are the smallest elements of tiles for desktop apps? The icon and title. The rest is empty, blank colored space. What's the point of that? This extends to every area of Metro. Same-colored icons. Abundant white space. All square tiles that provide NO immediate differentiation between shortcuts I'm looking for. It's a bad design. At least when it was only on Windows Phone and Xbox I could avoid it. Now it's needlessly invading Windows.

I used to not really like Apple due to their restricting platforms and design choices. As time goes on, however, iOS gets more and more capable and feature-rich, and now I really respect them for simply delivering something that works and works well. MS can't get it together - just look at WPF and Silverlight, Visual Studio 11 also has a slew of problems and backwards steps in design and usability). If my entire job didn't revolve around using their software and if I didn't play games I would definitely not be using their upcoming products.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:00 PM   #529
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Installed this on VMware. Horrible interface. They better put the START button as an option.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:07 AM   #530
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How is it confusing? The search charm searches in any app or across the system. It's actually way more powerful than even universal search because apps can allow themselves to be searched. The only difficulty was remembering that search is now universal and not integrated in the app but once you do it's more useful.

To me creating 2 "versions" would completely negate the whole idea of metro and the winRT platform. Forcing devs to write 2 versions of the same app would be a very stupid thing to do which is what a desktop/tablet option would force on people. It will take a few years but every app will eventually get a winRT verison and that is the app platform going forward. Just like dos apps in a windows world eventually the old desktop will go away.
Why would anyone WANT to write an app for WinRT. Metro is the worst interface for a DESKTOP OS on the market today. It is painfully hard to use, wastes screen real estate and does not present information in a useful way.

I have a Dell U3011 monitor and right now when I open up the start menu it takes up less than 10% of my screen real estate and I can still see things going on in whatever windows are open. Metro goes full screen and you lose visibility into anything you were doing. This is NOT a step forward.

Also, all of the common ways to do things are gone. For example please tell me the easiest way to bring up a command prompt from a default install?

This UI is a piece of trash that no one in their right mind is going to want to use. At the office I might make it the image people get as a punishment
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:58 PM   #531
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I really don't understand what all the ruckus is about, it took me less than a day to get used to the Metro interface, and now I feel like its just about as good as anything.

Maybe people are simply so against feeling completely helpless at the very get go, which was certainly how I felt when first got Windows 8 up and running and I immediately opened up the Calendar App and then spent the next few minutes trying to figure out how to get out of it.

But yeah, ultimately it seems to be just as functional as before if not more so for one's most used apps, and when it came to the nitty gritty I counted 1 extra mouse click vs. Win7 in order to get to something more obscure like the Device Manager through clicks alone.

I've got a feeling there's going to be a lot of irrational hate against 8 much like how there was against Vista, and I also imagine a lot of it will be from people with hardware that is too low end.
Spot on ^
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:02 PM   #532
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Also, all of the common ways to do things are gone. For example please tell me the easiest way to bring up a command prompt from a default install?
Are you kidding? It's literally ONE click away from ANYWHERE within windows. You just push Windows key + X and it's right there. Not sure how it could get much easier short of pinning it to your start screen or taskbar.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:50 PM   #533
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Are you kidding? It's literally ONE click away from ANYWHERE within windows. You just push Windows key + X and it's right there. Not sure how it could get much easier short of pinning it to your start screen or taskbar.
Or just press the windows key, type cmd, and press enter.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:10 PM   #534
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Or just press the windows key, type cmd, and press enter.
Well, it would be nice if they somehow indicated you could type on the start screen...

This is the problem with the interface. It is almost a throwback to the CLI, you need to know the command before you can do anything. In previous versions everything kind of keyed of the start button. Now, there are all these little things you need to know. Need to power off? Hover the mouse over the unmarked lower right area and then click on settings. What? How is anyone supposed to be able to do that that cold?

Here is a really annoying thing. When I first started I thought you could only get that menu by hovering over the upper right, but if a window is maximized, that doesn't work anymore. So I was constantly minimizing my windows to get to that menu.

And, I wouldn't be surprised if I am doing it wrong anyway. There are just so few hints in the UI, I feel like I am playing Street Fighter 2 or something.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #535
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Well, it would be nice if they somehow indicated you could type on the start screen...

This is the problem with the interface. It is almost a throwback to the CLI, you need to know the command before you can do anything. In previous versions everything kind of keyed of the start button. Now, there are all these little things you need to know. Need to power off? Hover the mouse over the unmarked lower right area and then click on settings. What? How is anyone supposed to be able to do that that cold?

Here is a really annoying thing. When I first started I thought you could only get that menu by hovering over the upper right, but if a window is maximized, that doesn't work anymore. So I was constantly minimizing my windows to get to that menu.

And, I wouldn't be surprised if I am doing it wrong anyway. There are just so few hints in the UI, I feel like I am playing Street Fighter 2 or something.
Most of the stuff is fine for a touch screen but if you want to use it on a desktop you need to know keyboard shortcuts. I've found after using it for a while on my laptop that I can be just as productive with Win8 if I use shortcuts. Of course for the average person that may be a problem.

But yeah, you can definitely start typing at the start screen like you could in Vista and 7 and it works the same way. Once I figured that out I was able to get to things just as quickly as with the old start menu.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:50 PM   #536
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Heh. So the future of the GUI is... key commands.

*chortle*
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #537
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Heh. So the future of the GUI is... key commands.

*chortle*
Yeah, as little sense as that makes on a desktop GUI, WTF kind of sense is that supposed to make on a tablet?
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #538
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Yeah, as little sense as that makes on a desktop GUI, WTF kind of sense is that supposed to make on a tablet?
On a tablet you'd use gestures. Swipe to the left, pinch & zoom, 3 finger rotate, middle finger salute, etc.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:46 PM   #539
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On a tablet you'd use gestures. Swipe to the left, pinch & zoom, 3 finger rotate, middle finger salute, etc.
So what gesture brings up the command prompt on a tablet?
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:55 PM   #540
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So what gesture brings up the command prompt on a tablet?
Why would you want to bring up command prompt on a tablet? Anyway you'd just bring up the onscreen keyboard and type cmd.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:02 PM   #541
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But yeah, you can definitely start typing at the start screen like you could in Vista and 7 and it works the same way. Once I figured that out I was able to get to things just as quickly as with the old start menu.
Open the start menu on Win7 and there is a blinking cursor in the search box. It is a nice visual hint that you can type something. There is nothing equivalent on Win 8 start screen. That is the problem.

I think the efficiency of the interface is fine, once you figure everything out it shouldn't be an issue, but there is just too much hidden/missing in the UI.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #542
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Open the start menu on Win7 and there is a blinking cursor in the search box. It is a nice visual hint that you can type something. There is nothing equivalent on Win 8 start screen. That is the problem.

I think the efficiency of the interface is fine, once you figure everything out it shouldn't be an issue, but there is just too much hidden/missing in the UI.
I agree. They could easily add a search box on the start screen so you know you can start typing.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #543
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Why would you want to bring up command prompt on a tablet? Anyway you'd just bring up the onscreen keyboard and type cmd.
So you see having to bring up the OSK and type what you want vs. drag/tap as a positive step on a tablet?
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:58 PM   #544
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Why would you want to bring up command prompt on a tablet? Anyway you'd just bring up the onscreen keyboard and type cmd.
The real question you should be asking is who wants to use a command prompt on a gui anymore.... I use a command prompt maybe 1 time a month and that is only to diagnose some issue. If windows 8 doesn't break (and each version of windows has gotten better on the stability aspect) there will be no reason to ever go back to the old dated desktop or command prompt.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:03 PM   #545
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Pick any other app or function that requires a search or keyboard shortcut.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:43 PM   #546
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I agree. They could easily add a search box on the start screen so you know you can start typing.
After the first or second time you've actually used the function (typing on the Metro screen), it should be remembered. Yes, it is a part of the learning curve. A frustrating learning curve for many, I suspect.

I just don't see my self being on the Metro screen often. Sign on, click on the Desktop tile and presto, it's just like Windows 7 (minus the Start Button, sadly.)
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:08 AM   #547
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The real question you should be asking is who wants to use a command prompt on a gui anymore.... I use a command prompt maybe 1 time a month and that is only to diagnose some issue. If windows 8 doesn't break (and each version of windows has gotten better on the stability aspect) there will be no reason to ever go back to the old dated desktop or command prompt.

The reason most people don't use a command prompt is because they don't know how, not because it isn't a faster or easier way to do things. Try copying a specific type of file from every directory on your drive to another drive using the gui, the command prompt can do it with just a simple

xcopy *.txt /S D:


I got one for anybody who thinks metro or touchscreen is the future, load up autocad and try using it.

Touchscreen is just a fad, it isn't the future. The real future interface is gaze tracking. The pc tracks what your eye is looking at and a blink of the eye is the click. You already do it when you use a mouse because you look everywhere the cursor goes on the screen, all that is left is the blink=click.
It is really impressive and you can download software now that lets you use a webcam , that software is somewhat buggy, but others are on the way with better cameras. Best of all no fingerprints on the screen.
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:18 PM   #548
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So you see having to bring up the OSK and type what you want vs. drag/tap as a positive step on a tablet?
I don't understand your point. If you want to bring up the command prompt then you will need to use the onscreen keyboard anyway. Pretty much no one will be using the command prompt on their tablet.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:34 PM   #549
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Pick any other app or function that requires a search or keyboard shortcut.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:39 PM   #550
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Pick any other app or function that requires a search or keyboard shortcut.
What are you saying?
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