Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > Off Topic

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Home and Garden
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-30-2011, 02:10 AM   #26
imot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lxskllr View Post
Pretty close to it. You'd lose some heat from light escaping, but it should be minimal.
also coil heaters are technically really similar to light bulbs so the idea is definitely viable.
imot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 03:30 AM   #27
ShawnD1
Lifer
 
ShawnD1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPizza View Post
That said, I'd then base my decision on which unit is safest to operate. Does it have a tip-over switch? Does it have exposed elements that are hot enough to set a piece of paper on fire (or accumulated dust)?
The safest electric heat I know of is called a "baseboard heater."

I have one in my room. It has a thermostat so it switches on and off as needed. It also has tip over protection. The heating elements themselves do not get hot because it's a fairly large heating element and it zig zags across the entire length of the device, and it's about 3 feet wide. I can put my hand on top of it while it's running and hold it there for several seconds before it gets uncomfortable. It has no active cooling like fans or pumps, so there's nothing that will fail and cause the house to burn down. It's also very silent. It makes a bit of a humming noise similar to a light bulb.
The down side is that this type of heater is designed to heat the room. It's not directional. I can't put a chair in front of it and bask in its heaty goodness, which is something a cheap $15 fan heater does well. My baseboard heater was something like $80, so it's easily the most expensive type. My awesome Costco parabolic radiant heater was more like $60. Regular ass 1500W ceramic heaters are only $15.

I also have an infrared parabolic heater in my living room.

That thing is awesome. It's all about focused heating. Great for warming up 1 person. Be careful not to buy a shitty one though. A good radiant heater runs COOL. It should not produce visible light. Anything that uses vacuum or halogen tubes to contain the tungsten is a pile of shit because that means it's too hot and will generate a bunch of light. My radiant heater has exposed elements, it glows red hot, but it doesn't really make any light. My parents have one that uses an 800W halogen light which sucks because it's hot enough to emit a ridiculous amount of visible light. Why would anyone want that? That's like having a spot light blast your eyes. Retarded.

Last edited by ShawnD1; 11-30-2011 at 03:37 AM.
ShawnD1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 03:55 AM   #28
qliveur
Diamond Member
 
qliveur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: B.F.E.
Posts: 3,505
Default

Another vote for oil-filled radiator.
__________________
"Mind your wants, 'cause there's someone that wants your mind." -George Clinton
qliveur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 06:49 AM   #29
Jeff7
Lifer
 
Jeff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 39,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEDI View Post
wait... a hair dryer is as efficient as a space heater?
those things are dirt cheap at walmart
Yup.
Pass electricity through resistance, and you get heat.
Heat generated = Current² * Resistance
Watts = Amps² * Ohms

A hair dryer of course is intended to put out a high-speed stream of air, with a lot of noise along with it. It's also likely that they're not built for continuous-use applications.
__________________
.
"Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil."
Jeff7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 09:04 AM   #30
ShawnD1
Lifer
 
ShawnD1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff7 View Post
Yup.
Pass electricity through resistance, and you get heat.
Heat generated = Currentē * Resistance
Watts = Ampsē * Ohms
Pretty much everything is >99% efficient at generating heat. My computer is making heat, the monitor makes heat. Server rooms have huge hvac systems to deal with all the heat. It's nice because it means any electrical device can be used to heat a room. It also means the only difference between different heaters is their other features like thermostat controls, fan speeds, timers, etc.

A toaster oven would make a good room heater. It's small, it's fairly high energy, it's built to run continuously with temperatures exceeding 450F, and it requires no active cooling. Start it with a 5 minute timer and the room will get nice and toasty
ShawnD1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 09:28 AM   #31
Red Squirrel
Lifer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 28,371
Default

Put a sterling engine in your heater to produce more electricity to produce more heat then add another sterling engine and keep going.

Unlimited heat.
__________________
~Red Squirrel~
486dx2 @66Mhz turbo, 8MB ram, 512MB HDD, sound blaster 16 + 2x cdrom, Trident 1MB video card @ 640*480, 56k high speed modem.
Red Squirrel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 09:56 AM   #32
ShawnD1
Lifer
 
ShawnD1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,000
Default

CO poisoning?

Actually, you could run the exhaust from a car through a heat exchange in the house. Its like a gas furnace :-D
ShawnD1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 10:50 AM   #33
DrPizza
Administrator
Elite Member
Goat Whisperer
 
DrPizza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Western NY
Posts: 44,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEDI View Post
wait... a hair dryer is as efficient as a space heater?
those things are dirt cheap at walmart

Yep. I've used a blow dryer and a heat gun to heat a room in my basement when it got reallllllllly cold outside and I had a water line freeze.
__________________
Fainting Goats
DrPizza is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 10:57 AM   #34
lxskllr
Lifer
 
lxskllr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 38,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnD1 View Post
CO poisoning?

Actually, you could run the exhaust from a car through a heat exchange in the house. Its like a gas furnace :-D
aka VW heat :^D
lxskllr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 11:18 AM   #35
IcePickFreak
Platinum Member
 
IcePickFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
Put a sterling engine in your heater to produce more electricity to produce more heat then add another sterling engine and keep going.

Unlimited heat.
The world has been saved!
__________________
The End
IcePickFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 11:29 AM   #36
Gooberlx2
Lifer
 
Gooberlx2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 14,837
Default

Quote:
Ceramic heaters are some of the newest convection heaters on the market. These heaters have ceramic plates and aluminum baffles. When electricity passes through the ceramic, it is heated. The heat is then absorbed by the aluminum and a fan blows the hot air into your room.

Ceramic heaters are easily portable and give off a great deal of heat from a small box. These heaters tend to be more energy efficient and safer than many heaters, so even though they heat up quickly, their plastic casings stay cool. A great use for this type of fan would be in a small office or tabletop.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in672592.shtml

It's more about safety and, to a lesser degree, efficiency vs heat output.
Gooberlx2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 12:21 PM   #37
Jeff7
Lifer
 
Jeff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 39,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnD1 View Post
Pretty much everything is >99% efficient at generating heat. My computer is making heat, the monitor makes heat. Server rooms have huge hvac systems to deal with all the heat. It's nice because it means any electrical device can be used to heat a room. It also means the only difference between different heaters is their other features like thermostat controls, fan speeds, timers, etc.

A toaster oven would make a good room heater. It's small, it's fairly high energy, it's built to run continuously with temperatures exceeding 450F, and it requires no active cooling. Start it with a 5 minute timer and the room will get nice and toasty
The only downside then is if you've got an available heat source that's cheaper per-watt/hr than electricity.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberlx2 View Post
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in672592.shtml

It's more about safety and, to a lesser degree, efficiency vs heat output.
Safety, and the concentration and delivery of the heat.
Efficiency, again, is going to be as near to 100% as you can get.
1500W in, and you're going to get damn close to 1500W out. (Where else would the energy go, anyway? Minute rearrangements of a few atoms in the crystal structure of the metal in the wires?)

Concentration: Tiny, fast fan vs a large slow one.

Delivery: Radiation, natural convection, or forced convection.
__________________
.
"Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil."

Last edited by Jeff7; 11-30-2011 at 12:30 PM.
Jeff7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 12:27 PM   #38
lxskllr
Lifer
 
lxskllr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 38,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberlx2 View Post
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in672592.shtml

It's more about safety and, to a lesser degree, efficiency vs heat output.
How does that work? It sounds like magic.
lxskllr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 12:37 PM   #39
Jeff7
Lifer
 
Jeff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 39,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lxskllr View Post
How does that work? It sounds like magic.
Maybe it also replicates bacon - and cooks it.
__________________
.
"Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil."
Jeff7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 12:41 PM   #40
brandonb
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,532
Default

I have an infrared heater. Unlike most heaters which are sort of like a toaster, infrared generate infrared rays which heat the room like the sun vs burning the air... That means you don't lose any humidity in the air, which is common in winter because most heating systems are burning the air and result in dry skin, etc.

(Thats what it said on the box, can't say if it was the truth or not)
__________________
Computer Setup
Intel Ivy Bridge 3550, AsRock Z75 Pro3, 8 gig GSkill 1600 8-8-8-24 timing, Crucial m4 64gig, 500meg WD RE4, ATI 7970 3GB, LG IPS236V x 3, Windows 8, Antec Sonata Solo 2, Antec 550watt PS.
brandonb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 02:19 PM   #41
ShawnD1
Lifer
 
ShawnD1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonb View Post
I have an infrared heater. Unlike most heaters which are sort of like a toaster, infrared generate infrared rays which heat the room like the sun vs burning the air... That means you don't lose any humidity in the air, which is common in winter because most heating systems are burning the air and result in dry skin, etc.
Actually, burning the air would make it MORE humid. Hot air can hold more water than cold air.
ShawnD1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 07:43 PM   #42
imot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8
Default

What do you think about the EdenPURE? Do you believe in its air purification feature? That heater is a way more expensive than the other ones and I don't get why since it is just a 1,500 Watts infrared heater with some air filter attached.
They call it air purification tho they say in both EdenPURE review on the Electric Heaters Review site that they don't believe in effectiveness of the air filter in it and recommend buying a cheaper space heater, but don't mention why and any other details about it just only that it removes some bacteria from the air.
imot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 07:59 PM   #43
slpaulson
Diamond Member
 
slpaulson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnD1 View Post
Actually, burning the air would make it MORE humid. Hot air can hold more water than cold air.
Hot air can hold more water, but when you heat cold air the relative humidity, the ratio of water in the air over the amount of water the air can hold, goes down.

Relative humidity is what affects dry skin. That's why the inside of your house is very dry in winter. You're heating up cold air. The amount of water in the air stays the same, but the amount of water the air can hold goes up, which makes any water evaporate more readily into the air.

Last edited by slpaulson; 11-30-2011 at 08:04 PM.
slpaulson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 09:58 PM   #44
Triumph
Lifer
 
Triumph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: OfficeLady3 avatar
Posts: 14,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff7 View Post
Safety, and the concentration and delivery of the heat.
Efficiency, again, is going to be as near to 100% as you can get.
1500W in, and you're going to get damn close to 1500W out. (Where else would the energy go, anyway? Minute rearrangements of a few atoms in the crystal structure of the metal in the wires?)

Concentration: Tiny, fast fan vs a large slow one.

Delivery: Radiation, natural convection, or forced convection.
Efficient? Yes. Near 100%? Impossible. Carnot efficiency rules, the ultimate efficiency of anything that does work is dependent upon the temperature of the heat source, and the heat sink. In this case, a 450 degree toaster and a 70 degree room, for example. Converting to Kelvins first, the equation is

Efficiency = 1 - (21/232) = .909 or 91% efficiency.

Purely academic, but true.
__________________
-Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

WANTED - Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. P.O. Box Oakview, CA 93022. You'll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.
Triumph is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 10:40 PM   #45
Jeff7
Lifer
 
Jeff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 39,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonb View Post
I have an infrared heater. Unlike most heaters which are sort of like a toaster, infrared generate infrared rays which heat the room like the sun vs burning the air... That means you don't lose any humidity in the air, which is common in winter because most heating systems are burning the air and result in dry skin, etc.

(Thats what it said on the box, can't say if it was the truth or not)
Or maybe it doesn't feel as dry. Where would the moisture go? The only thing that would change is the relative humidity, as the air in the room gets warmer.
Maybe that's what they were getting at.


Infrared = radiant heat = primarily used to heat objects directly, versus heating the air and then heating objects via convection.

Mental simulation says...
The radiant heater will heat you up before heating up the air in the room, so you're more likely to turn off the heater sooner, so the air in the room won't get as warm, so the relative humidity won't get quite as low. Since you're more likely to turn off the heater sooner, you're introducing less energy into the room, thus resulting in a lesser increase in temperature, and therefore a lesser drop in relative humidity.

But if you had a 1500W radiant heater and a 1500W convective heater and put either one into an insulated environment (a "system"), either one would be putting 1500W into the system, so the air temperature would change in the same manner, and the relative humidity would therefore also experience the same decrease.

So your skin dries out, you buy more lotion, fapfapfap, life goes on.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumph View Post
Efficient? Yes. Near 100%? Impossible. Carnot efficiency rules, the ultimate efficiency of anything that does work is dependent upon the temperature of the heat source, and the heat sink. In this case, a 450 degree toaster and a 70 degree room, for example. Converting to Kelvins first, the equation is

Efficiency = 1 - (21/232) = .909 or 91% efficiency.

Purely academic, but true.
Where does the extra energy go then?
V = IR and P = I²R

If I've got a 3-ohm resistor, and I apply 6V across it, I'd darn well better get 2A of current flow.
And if I've got 2A of current, I²R = 2² * 3, that should be 12W of heat generated there. My thinking then is that maybe some of that energy is going into increasing the temperature of the conductor? Is that then where that extra x.x% is going? Though even then, from a thermodynamic systems standpoint, it's still energy introduced into the system.
__________________
.
"Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil."

Last edited by Jeff7; 11-30-2011 at 10:46 PM.
Jeff7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 11:30 PM   #46
Triumph
Lifer
 
Triumph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: OfficeLady3 avatar
Posts: 14,612
Default

i fail at thermodynamics, i haven't used it in 10 years. carnot efficiency is for a heat engine that converts heat into work, or work into heat. a working fluid is required. i should open my books once in a while.
__________________
-Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

WANTED - Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. P.O. Box Oakview, CA 93022. You'll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.

Last edited by Triumph; 11-30-2011 at 11:38 PM.
Triumph is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.