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Old 08-09-2010, 11:27 AM   #26
fbrdphreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destrekor View Post
there is more to a jeep than the interior materials.

In fact, for a wrangler - most buyers have no interest in expensive materials and fancy options in the interior. Why? Because wranglers, above all other jeeps but certainly not exclusive, are vehicles made to be abused.

If you aren't going to do anything with your vehicle other than drive it on pavement, don't get a wrangler. They are the among the most versatile, useful, and capable vehicles out there, but are not exactly designed for apparently what you want.

The fact that you are comparing an open-top wrangler to a convertible coupe is extremely comical.




also, this is laughable.

Jeep has always produced some of the most dependable vehicle platforms out there. It is owned by chrysler, but most of their vehicles do not share platforms with any other badge. The ones that do are the ones with laughable suspension systems, made for the "suvs are great for stuffing full with random shit and/or people" type.

I may be a little biased since the wrangler is built in my hometown, and love the history of the platform.
but they are amazing vehicles.

Anyhow - chrysler is not the company most think of these days. The new ownership is completely turning the company around, though they started that on their own a few years back. I'd buy a vehicle with a lifetime powertrain warranty.

if it wasn't nearly 40k, the 2011 jeep grand cherokee would be at the top of my list. Always was a terrific vehicle, extremely capable like the wrangler, but it's a lot more of a "complete" vehicle. But the new ownership, pentastar engine, and redesign look amazing.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MJinZ View Post
Yes, unfortunately I would take an Xterra or FJ Cruiser most days over a Wrangler because of the extra amenities and modern drivetrain.

Jeep fans have been complaining about the crappy V6 in the Wrangler for years and Chrysler does not really care.
Someone at work was selling a nice 98 Wrangler (with the straight 6) last year for around 4500. Thing looked like it was in great shape, I kick myself for not snapping that up.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Imyourzero View Post
So I miss having a convertible, but all of the ones I'd want are RWD which would suck for a couple of months out of the year here in VA.

I have always kind of liked Wranglers for their rugged look, and the idea of being able to have an open top combined with 4WD is appealing since I could enjoy the benefits during both the summer and winter months.

I did a search on AutoTrader for Wranglers 2006-2010, manual transmission, under 45k miles, etc. Prices start at around $15k all the way up to $30k, with MANY of them being $22k+. This surprises me, because there just doesn't seem to be much "to" a Wrangler. No way am I going to pay that much for a small vehicle with cloth seats and a cheap-looking interior/dash. For that amount of money, I'd just get a preowned TL or IS 250 AWD and feel like that payment was going towards something nice.

So what makes them so expensive (for what they are)?
You can't use the Wrangler's 4WD on the road, whether it's icy or snowy or rainy. It's for loose surfaces only. On the street you are stuck in RWD mode.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:32 PM   #29
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Just chiming in as an owner of the 'new' (08) jeep with the minivan engine.

First: the expense. Mine was something like 18.5k brand new fall '07, but I got a version without AC and with vinyl seats. Jeep always overprices options, and requires 10 options nobody would ever want with useful ones. I wanted the better tires and wheels and 4:11 gearing but had to buy cloth interior and a ton of other unwanted crap to get it. Aftermarket it is for the offroad capable goodies. Anyhoo, for 18.5k, what other car gives me 2 tons of metal, a 6 banger with a 6 speed, a decent sound system, rag top and 4x4?

Second: the ergonomics. New jeeps are nothing like classic jeeps. The ride is cushier than most other trucks, it's quiet, and nothing leaks. It's very civilized and livable with, unlike the CJ5 I had decades ago. The plastics look cheap but are surprisingly rugged.

Third: lineage. This thing is *SO* Chrysler it's not even funny. Mine's been in the shop twice for transmission issues, and wife's got a new transmission at 6k miles. But other than that it's never left me stranded and gets 20 mpg. Comparable to family sedans.

Anyhoo, if this thing dropped in value like typical cars I'd be looking at like 12k for it 3 years later. 12k for this vs anything else in the price range is a no brainer -- I'd pick the Wrangler in a heartbeat. Hence higher prices for the used hardware.

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Old 08-09-2010, 02:21 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8envy View Post
Just chiming in as an owner of the 'new' (08) jeep with the minivan engine.

First: the expense. Mine was something like 18.5k brand new fall '07, but I got a version without AC and with vinyl seats. Jeep always overprices options, and requires 10 options nobody would ever want with useful ones. I wanted the better tires and wheels and 4:11 gearing but had to buy cloth interior and a ton of other unwanted crap to get it. Aftermarket it is for the offroad capable goodies. Anyhoo, for 18.5k, what other car gives me 2 tons of metal, a 6 banger with a 6 speed, a decent sound system, rag top and 4x4?

Second: the ergonomics. New jeeps are nothing like classic jeeps. The ride is cushier than most other trucks, it's quiet, and nothing leaks. It's very civilized and livable with, unlike the CJ5 I had decades ago. The plastics look cheap but are surprisingly rugged.

Third: lineage. This thing is *SO* Chrysler it's not even funny. Mine's been in the shop twice for transmission issues, and wife's got a new transmission at 6k miles. But other than that it's never left me stranded and gets 20 mpg. Comparable to family sedans.

Anyhoo, if this thing dropped in value like typical cars I'd be looking at like 12k for it 3 years later. 12k for this vs anything else in the price range is a no brainer -- I'd pick the Wrangler in a heartbeat. Hence higher prices for the used hardware.

If you want one, get a new one stripped.
18.5k for that is a steal, no argument.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Throckmorton View Post
You can't use the Wrangler's 4WD on the road, whether it's icy or snowy or rainy. It's for loose surfaces only. On the street you are stuck in RWD mode.
Why is that? And why hasn't that been brought up way before now? That's kind of a major reason I was even considering the vehicle, as mentioned in the OP.

If that's truly the case, there's no point in buying a Wrangler for the 4WD since I'd be using it in snow more than sand/dirt/mud/etc. If I can't use the 4WD in snow, I might as well get the 2WD version or another vehicle altogether.

I don't understand why the surface would matter; I thought 4WD was 4WD and it just made all four wheels pull so that you were able to negotiate whatever difficult surface you were on, e.g. hills, mud, snow. But I certainly don't proclaim to be an expert on the Wrangler's particular system, so school me. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this.
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:08 PM   #32
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http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:56 PM   #33
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Packed snow qualifies as loose road surface. A bit of slush or wet pavement doesn't. You *can* use 4x4 in those conditions, but you'll be wearing your drivetrain and tires pretty hard and get worse than no benefit.

Just like off roading you wouldn't shift into 4x4 unless you're in trouble (or a park ranger is yelling at you for tearing up the trail in 2wd). Because just like off roading, if you get stuck while in 4x4 you're well and truly screwed.

That said, I've never "needed" 4x4 even after a several foot overnight snowfall. Between traction and stability control and aggressive tires you're simply good to go.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:34 PM   #34
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I agree. They were intended as more of an 'off road' vehicle and a lot of people are modding them with lifts and bigger tires for 4 wheel off roading fun. Hence they keep a good value. And drivetrain parts to either repair the original or upgrade to something better are easy to get. GM engines fit in nicely, as does many heavy duty axles and transfer cases. Check out episodes of Xtreme 4 x 4 on Spike TV (cablevision CH#41) or the web site: http://www.powerblocktv.com/site3/index.php/xtreme
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:17 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Imyourzero View Post
Why is that? And why hasn't that been brought up way before now? That's kind of a major reason I was even considering the vehicle, as mentioned in the OP.

If that's truly the case, there's no point in buying a Wrangler for the 4WD since I'd be using it in snow more than sand/dirt/mud/etc. If I can't use the 4WD in snow, I might as well get the 2WD version or another vehicle altogether.

I don't understand why the surface would matter; I thought 4WD was 4WD and it just made all four wheels pull so that you were able to negotiate whatever difficult surface you were on, e.g. hills, mud, snow. But I certainly don't proclaim to be an expert on the Wrangler's particular system, so school me. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this.
It's because the transfer case is set up so in 4WD mode the front and rear axles are locked together. They can only spin at the same speed. That's fine on loose dirt or mud, but not on a surface with traction like a road, because the front and rear wheels need to turn at different speeds when you go around corners. It's like driving without a differential.

On dry pavement it causes binding in the system, and parts can wear out or break. On wet or icy pavement, it can cause loss of traction.

The only time you'd want to use the part time 4WD is on dirt, or if you're literally on top of the snow, or if you just need to go straight forward or back to get unstuck.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:25 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by v8envy View Post
Packed snow qualifies as loose road surface. A bit of slush or wet pavement doesn't. You *can* use 4x4 in those conditions, but you'll be wearing your drivetrain and tires pretty hard and get worse than no benefit.

Just like off roading you wouldn't shift into 4x4 unless you're in trouble (or a park ranger is yelling at you for tearing up the trail in 2wd). Because just like off roading, if you get stuck while in 4x4 you're well and truly screwed.

That said, I've never "needed" 4x4 even after a several foot overnight snowfall. Between traction and stability control and aggressive tires you're simply good to go.
OK, that makes more sense. I never intended to use 4WD on wet roads (lol) or even slush. It would be for snow only, and there would have to be a lot of it (and there was, this past winter). I realize that using 4x4 when it's not needed wears the drivetrain & tires unnecessarily but it's not as if I would wake up one morning, see an inch of snow on the roads and think "Oh man, I've gotta use 4WD all the way to work!" or use a light dusting as an excuse to throw `er in 4 high.

I'm kind of surprised that you haven't ever needed 4x4 even after a large snowfall, but the tires can make or break you. I had an Isuzu Trooper with nice truck tires on it, and it did provide a lot of grip even in 2WD. I was slipping and sliding all over the place this past winter even with my Maxima's FWD, but the tires are all-season. I realize I would do far better with dedicated snow tires like the Blizzaks.

What threw me off was Throckmorton's statement that I couldn't use the Wrangler's 4WD on the road. I see now that you can, it's just not a good idea, at least not for any extended period of time.

Considering I'd probably only utilize 4x4 once or twice a year, honestly I'd probably be better off with an AWD vehicle + decent tires; that way I'd get the traction and stability benefits in rain, slush, etc. year round in a system that was designed to run all the time (or as needed). Not sure how many AWD verts there are that don't cost a fortune, but it's something to look into.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:28 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Throckmorton View Post
It's because the transfer case is set up so in 4WD mode the front and rear axles are locked together. They can only spin at the same speed. That's fine on loose dirt or mud, but not on a surface with traction like a road, because the front and rear wheels need to turn at different speeds when you go around corners. It's like driving without a differential.

On dry pavement it causes binding in the system, and parts can wear out or break. On wet or icy pavement, it can cause loss of traction.

The only time you'd want to use the part time 4WD is on dirt, or if you're literally on top of the snow, or if you just need to go straight forward or back to get unstuck.
Thanks man, that completely clarifies things. I already knew how 4WD worked, but like I said what threw me was your statement that I couldn't use it on the road. I can...just wouldn't want to unless I enjoy replacing parts much sooner than I would otherwise.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:53 PM   #38
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I've been wanting to get a wrangler for a very long time. My dad had a '98 that he traded in for a civic when we moved to Northern Virginia and he was commuting to DC every day. That said, I remember having a blast with him in it.

Unfortunately the new models (07+) now looks like every other piece of compromised jeep crap coming out. When I end up picking one up it'll be an early to mid 2000s or late 90s TJ or if I can find a decent LJ Unlimited I would be extremely happy (want to be able to tow and the short wheelbase can make that difficult).

I won't use it as a daily driver, I have my motorcycle with it's amazing gas mileage (55-60, suck it dumbass prius) to do that. Oh, and riding makes driving interesting again.

I'm really glad to see that Ford and *maybe* GM are pulling their heads out of their asses and putting out some good looking and useful cars, but Chrysler is still a toss-up to me.

EDIT: I also think the new unlimited looks stupid. Really stupid.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by v8envy View Post
Just chiming in as an owner of the 'new' (08) jeep with the minivan engine.

First: the expense. Mine was something like 18.5k brand new fall '07, but I got a version without AC and with vinyl seats. Jeep always overprices options, and requires 10 options nobody would ever want with useful ones. I wanted the better tires and wheels and 4:11 gearing but had to buy cloth interior and a ton of other unwanted crap to get it. Aftermarket it is for the offroad capable goodies. Anyhoo, for 18.5k, what other car gives me 2 tons of metal, a 6 banger with a 6 speed, a decent sound system, rag top and 4x4?

Second: the ergonomics. New jeeps are nothing like classic jeeps. The ride is cushier than most other trucks, it's quiet, and nothing leaks. It's very civilized and livable with, unlike the CJ5 I had decades ago. The plastics look cheap but are surprisingly rugged.

Third: lineage. This thing is *SO* Chrysler it's not even funny. Mine's been in the shop twice for transmission issues, and wife's got a new transmission at 6k miles. But other than that it's never left me stranded and gets 20 mpg. Comparable to family sedans.

Anyhoo, if this thing dropped in value like typical cars I'd be looking at like 12k for it 3 years later. 12k for this vs anything else in the price range is a no brainer -- I'd pick the Wrangler in a heartbeat. Hence higher prices for the used hardware.

If you want one, get a new one stripped.
If yours doesn't leak water into the interior, consider yourself VERY lucky. The current JK Wronglers are FAR more prone to leak water than the previous TJ's.
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