Question Printer Shopping. Which brands?

Nov 17, 2019
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I think I had a thread on this, but here's a new one.

Need a printer. Want color. Don't want Ink jet.

Would really prefer all in one for space reasons; printer, copier, scanner ... don't really care much about Fax, but might need it rarely. Two sided print not required.

I've always had low end ink jet color all in ones. They work great at first, but if you don't use them often, the heads tends to dry up and the machine is toast unless you know how to tear them apart and replace things, which i don't.

Looking for laser hoping to avoid that issue. I need longevity, but not at a premium price.

I see several in the $300 range right now, with a few below due to sales.

I don't want HP ... don't care for the company.

I see Lexmark, Canon and Brother. But I've read (and had) horror stories regarding their Ink Jets becoming useless if the printer fails for one reason or another .. not able to use scanner for example. Does this happen with Lasers?

Scrapping at $75 printer is one thing. Scrapping a $300 printer would really annoy me.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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I had a Lexmark colour laser printer for many years and was very happy with it. (No scanner in my model.) It was reliable and had really good colour and resolution. I used the network connection system so all computers in our home had access. On a few occasions it malfunctioned, and Lexmark Tech Support people were VERY helpful to diagnose and help me fix the issue. In at least a couple of cases that involved their shipping me replacement parts to install, which they did at no cost even though it was past the warranty period.

About a year ago it had a new problem which I believe I diagnosed to require replacement of an expensive module, but my diagnosis might have been wrong. Of course, the printer was old and discontinued. Rather than do that I chose another which my family gifted me with. It is a Brother HL-L3290CDM which does B/W, full colour, 2-sided printing, full flatbed scanner functions with copier abilities but not auto-feeding of originals into the scanner, and USB2 and WiFi network connectivity. It does not do FAX. It has one 250-sheet feed tray and a multi-purpose tray for special papers or envelopes. It has been performing very well with great colour and resolution. So far it says I have printed just over 700 pages, of which 180 were full colour. It is still working on the original toner cartridges supplied with it, although I have spares ready.

Technically the Brother printers are not LASER printers. Instead they use an stationary linear array of tiny LED's for the light that creates the electrostatic image on the printing drum, and that gives you 600 dpi native resolution with others simulated. Scanner resolution is similar. In terms of performance, laser versus LED light source makes no difference.

I have have the habit with both colour printers to use the printer driver options for each document to print B/W docs using only black toner, and reserve colour printing for when the page does use colour. The utilities provided with the printer make it easy to set up a variety of custom printing profiles for different document types.

Beginning with the previous Lexmark unit I have been using third-part toner cartridges from a supplier whose carts work just fine. One reason I chose the Brother unit is ability to continue this. Some printer makers have means to identify whether or not a new cart just installed is theirs, or is full or empty. It appears the full / empty condition item is what is important to the Brother printer, and I found on-line an easy procedure with this printer to reset the toner cartridge condition tracking to new and full.

I agree with you fully that a colour laser (or Brother LED variety) printer is much preferable over ink jet units. You never have head clogs, and the actual per-page cost of ink is much better with a laser type. Further, you can (often should) use common office copier paper rather than ink jet special, so that's cheaper. It also is pretty fast, especially if you are printing multiple copies of each page.

One small point that IS different. You can printer photos in full colour and good resolution with this type of printer. In fact, getting an ink jet printer with a native resolution over 600 dpi is much more expensive than base models. However, you can NOT achieve GLOSSY prints with a laser type. If you try (I have) feeding glossy paper through the laser printer for that, the toner simply does not bond to the paper surface and just brushes off! So you can get only matte finish. For most family photos in larger sizes I just print a normal colour print and place that in a frame with front glass. The glossiness of the print is much less important if it is behind glass. For glossy 4" x 6" snapshots I use instead a dedicated Epson photo printer.
 
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Jimminy

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May 19, 2020
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Lot's of people say the brother printers are good, but I've never had one.

I also have the problem of rarely using a printer, so maybe I should get laser (or led) too. Sometimes I go 6 months without printing anything, and then only a few pages. But when I need a printer, I REALLY do need it badly :)

Another problem is keeping it in my drafty old cabin. Humidity and temp swings wildly.

I'm on a very meager budget, so wonder if the refurbs can be a good choice, i.e. if they are really overhauled with new wear parts like rubber rollers, etc. or just "dusted off", reset, and resold.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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I had a very *nice* (?) Lexmark color laser. What a PITA. I could write pages but short version is it has chipped cartridges, wasted $800 worth of big color carts to print mostly monochrome, time to first page was a lie, closer to 2 minutes unless in the most active heated state constantly, eprom chipped circuit boards to prevent you from repair replacing components except new through their costly retail channel, and then it broke outside the warranty and was not cost effective to repair.

I got a brother B&W laser and have been very happy ever since, had it over 10 years now so they probably no longer make that model.

Color lasers in general are fairly expensive per page compared to B&W. If I understand it correctly, they have to charge the (drum?) with color even if very little is used, then have to dump that and recharge so you use up color even if not printing it.

Another factor is if you want good color fidelity, it is harder to use aftermarket carts or toner, compared B&W where all you need is a dark toner on a white page. This means a few hundred dollars worth of carts for color, vs $10 bulk toner and a new ~$80 cart every few years for my B&W Brother.

I just go to kinkos with the docs on a flash drive if I need color printed.
 
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Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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I always stick with HP. Have never been wrong.
I also went with HP for my color laser aio printer. They were rock solid at work, so I gave them a shot. It's been a year, and no issues.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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A couple comments on items raised by mindless1 above. In general I did not have those bad experiences with my Lexmark.

Both on my Lexmark and on my current Brother the drivers provided allow you to specify whether or not you are printing in colour. If you are, all three colour toners MAY be used; it not, only Black is used. This choice s NOT set on the printer, you must use the printing options available within the document's Printing menus, and the choice cannot be made permanent. The automatic default setting is to use all colours. In the case of my current Brother system, there is a very handy system in the printing options configuration screens to prepare and store named sets of printer options for different types of jobs. So for example I have created profiles combining choices for Letter and Legal size papers with B/W or full colour and with one- or two-sided printing. Then there's one for B/W only Envelope printing using the single-sheet feeder tray. For EVERY print job I automatically go to the options screen and pick the profile I want to use. If I'm printing several different pages it keeps the Profile I chose between jobs until I choose another. This is much handier that the older Lexmark system, but even with that I could do such custom printer settings.

With any printer the ink or toner of a particular colour normally is NOT used if that colour is not what you are printing in that spot. In a laser printer each of the four colours (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black or CMYK) has its own separate imaging drum. As that drum turns during printing it is first charged up electrostatically and evenly, then the light source (laser or LED in Brother's case) hits the drum and removes the charge in the lit-up spots, leaving an electrostatic pattern of the spots that are supposed to be printed in that colour. Then it runs past a closely-spaced (but not touching) second drum coated uniformly with toner dust and the dust is attracted to the imaging drum to create the exact toner pattern. Where the printing drum does NOT have a charge, NO toner is taken from the toner drum. The imaging drum then contacts the sheet of paper to transfer the toner dust to the paper surface. This is done for all four toner colour units in rapid sequence during the single pass of the paper past the units so that ALL toner is now on the paper surface. The last step it to pass that paper under an intense heat source that melts the adhesive polymer coating on the toner particle surfaces so they all bond tightly to the paper. In this system, toner is consumed ONLY in the spots where it IS going to be transferred to the paper as part of the image. Ideally all of that will end up on the printed sheet. However, a small amount of toner can fail to be transferred, so at the end of the cycle the imaging drum is brushed clean of any leftovers so they don't accumulate and mar the next print.

The details of a file to be printed can impact its use of toners in a colour printer. Even if it consists only of black text on a white background, if that file really is encoded as a "grey-scale" document, the colour co-ordinates of all of the text contain values for each of the four toner colours. Even the darkest "grey" that looks black MAY call for some toner "colour" which you never actually see on the print, but is may use toner anyway. If you set the printer options to print in Black and White only, no matter what the data from the computer tells it, the PRINTER will ignore the three colour signals and use NO toner from those three units, printing only from the Black unit. That is how you can guarantee NOT using toner on a B/W document that needs no colour anywhere.

In the simplest cheapest ink jet printers there are three colour inks only (Cyan, Magenta and Yellow) and NO Black ink. In that case the only way to produce blacks (for text or anything else) is to print LOTS of ALL three colour inks to make really dark grey. In a better ink jet you get a fourth ink colour (Black) and its driver should offer the choice to print Black only when you wish. Colour laser printers are never made with that simpler 3-colours-only design.

The impact of using colour toner on cost is twofold, and I tracked my toner use and costs with my former Lexmark unit. First, although the cost of a colour toner cartridge was similar to that of a Black cart, the Black cart normally contained TWICE as much toner, so the cost per print is different. THEN add in that a Black-only print will use toner from only one cartrige (but maybe a lot for a full sheet of text), whereas a full-colour print may use toner from FOUR cartidges - how much of each depends entirely on how much area of the print uses which colour. Over the longer term with my habit of using Black only on text-only documents, I found that full-colour prints cost about four times (or a bit more) as much as black text pages. Bear in mind that my colour prints often were full sheets of colour like photographs or signs.

Regarding colour fidelity and the cost impacts, I found a supplier of third-party toner cartridges for my Lexmark that produced coloured prints with very good colour accuracy and proper saturation. The difference using those carts versus genuine Lexmarks was very small and acceptable to me. But I DID pay attention to that, to cartdridge print yield and to operatring problems as I evaluated some third-party carts at first because those CAN be sources of trouble. (In contrast, for the dedicated Epson 4" x 6" snapshot photo printer I use, I have found the best performance and print quality there when using only genuine Epson carts for it.)

Last comment on this. I have used HP colour inkjets for many years because they always do well and produce great prints. I got away from those mostly because of the clogged jet issue which is NOT an HP problem. It is largely because I don't use the printer very often, and often in black only. But I still have a couple of those for large colour photos use mainly, and one I use for long banners, but they are old and malfunctioning at times. I did have on old HP Laserjet Black-only printer from the early 1990's that i really liked and used for a LONG time with great success. When it started to fail - poor paper feeding becasue of old dried-out rollers - I decided to get a COLOUR laser, and that's when the Lexmark was chosen. So I have no experience with Colour Laser printers from HP.
 
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mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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^ I installed the driver, and simply printed monochrome pages of mostly if not entirely text, ~95% of the time... not going to jump through hoops change things around, as often as I was printing. It wasted $800 worth of color carts.

Why it did that is irrelevant to me, would never buy a Lexmark color laser again for this severe an issue to be present in something that made it to retail, in addition to the microchipping issue which is just greed.

I mean I could see it for the carts but not the circuit boards, forcing customers to use the branded cartridges if it were the business model where they practically give away the printer and their profit model is based on cart sales, but in the case of my color Lexmark, it was a roughly $900 printer boat anchor and even at that price point, did not come with their high capacity carts.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
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My Brother DCP-L2520DW has been flawless. B&W Laser Printer. We also have an HP Color Ink-jet printer. Both have given us great service. Moderate usage for a home user on the laser printer and light usage on the Color Ink-jet.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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Can you leave the color cartridges out of a laser and just use the black? Or will the machine fault out like most inkjets will?
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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Can you leave the color cartridges out of a laser and just use the black? Or will the machine fault out like most inkjets will?
With mine, you can just tell the printer to print in black. There is no need to do anything with the color cartridges. I don't know if that would be the case if one of the color cartridges needed to be replaced due to no toner.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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Modern printers have loads of sensors to monitor for flaws in their complex systems. These are for making automatic adjustments to improve performance and for failure monitoring and error reporting as a troubleshooting tool. On most printers I have seen, if you leave a toner cart (or ink cart in an ink jet) UNinstalled, the printer will give you an error and will NOT try to print anything. If it's a "3-in1" or "4-in-1" combo unit, it also will NOT scan, copy, or FAX. Everything has to check out as working properly for you to use any function.

On some printers the maker even has installed security features that can test whether an installed part (like a toner cart) is actually made by the printer maker. They caution you that using any other parts may damage your machine. Although that's possible it is also a scare tactic to increase sales of THEIR accessories. Third-party makers of alternative supplies have to deal with those issues if you want to ignore those warnings. For example, I had a Canon 3-in-1 ink jet for which I regularly bought and used ink cartridges that included small ID chips that perfectly acted like the chips in real Canon carts, so they worked just fine, and the print results were just as good. Some of the techniques used to induce you NOT to use third-party items are easy to circumvent. That is one of the reasons I chose my Brother colour laser. On the web one can find an easy procedure for getting a third-party toner cartridge to work with not trouble. Of course, that cart needs to have good-quality construction and contents, but that is up to ME to figure out. If it causes trouble, that's my problem!
 
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^^^ 'everything has to work or nothing works'

That's what's wrong. No reason for that. If the print heads are messed up, there is no reason for the scanner not to work since it doesn't need the print heads.


Which is why I decided to look for separate units. Jeff's place is running a special on a Canon color laser ( LBP632Cdw) for $199 and I have a $50 gift card sitting there, so $149 plus another 6% off for no rush shipping since I'm not in a hurry.


They also have a Canon flatbed scanner (Lide300) for about $60, minus the 6% shipping promo.

For about $220 net, I can have both here.

But all the scanners I can find are USB wired, none LAN connected. That's part of why I wanted an all in one.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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Yeah the network scanning feature on my B&W Brother AIO is one I use often, 'cuz I want the printer more centrally located, rather than next to the system I use for scanned doc manipulation.

Didn't like the defaults for it though, had to open the software and set the default app to something besides MS Paint (which was not the default program associated in windows with the file type).

Seems like I vaguely recall that (at least historically?) certain routers also allowed you to connect over USB to convert a USB printer into network access, though not sure how the software would integrate with that... IIRC, I can either push, or pull, the scan to a system depending on whether I'm at the printer or system. I don't recall the last time I pulled one though, as you have to be at the printer to put the doc in anyway so might as well push it to a system then.
 
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Looking at toner prices for that and a Lexmark model .... not sure that's the way I want to go. Plus review aren't all that glowing. And I'm not they won't disable other features at will.

For as little as I print, it might be worth it to just take things on a thumb drive and go somewhere to have them print it. Very inconvenient though.
 
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I wussed out and went for another cheap inkjet. I just can't justify the higher cost of a laser and the toner for printing 50 pages or less most years. $50-$75 every couple of years has been working out ... sort of.
 
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Do the XL cartridges contain more or less that two standards?

XLs are $60/set, standards are $40/set.

Considering buying two sets of standards due to shelf life.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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You'd have to read the specs of those carts. They should specify at least the claimed number of pages per cart. Better yet, they ought to specify the volume of ink (ml or oz) in one cart. Then you can compare.

Regarding shelf life, I have found that ink carts past their specified "best before" date still work fine, although I concede that is NOT guaranteed. But there's another factor for SOME printers. Many ink jets by HP and some others had the printer HEAD module as part of the replaceable ink cartridge, so every new cart gave you also a brand new print head. That makes the unit more expensive than a simple cart of ink, but this is great for heads that clog up when dried out from lack of use. With that system the "best before" date still may not be critical. An un-used cartridge of this type usually arrives with a good seal over the head jet openings so that the ink in them does not dry out and clog before you remove that seal to install in the printer. MAYBE that seal could fail if the cartridge is store for a very long time. Other printers have a "permanent" print head in the moving assembly separate from the ink carts. In that design if you cannot un-clog a dried print head, you must replace the head unit with its own cost. If your printer of this design is older, finding a replacement head can be more trouble that finding ink carts.
 
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The printer is a $60 Epson XP-4200, so I doubt there's anything much advanced involved.

Ink carts are either 212 or 232 and there is an XL version.

No idea where the print heads are.

Almost wish I could replace the head in my Canon MX 920, but it would probably cost more than the Epson I replaced it with.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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Looking up genuine Epson cartridges of that type, I see Epson claims that their XL carts give "2.5 times" as many prints as the non-XL version. If that is true of all makers, the price difference is definitely worth it.

FYI, I looked for replacement print heads for that Canon. REBUILT (not brand new) are about $35. I found it common for an older printer that you can buy only rebuilt heads because they are not made new any more. Some years ago I had a Canon printer-scanner that I had to replace the print head for and used a rebuilt. It worked OK. However, the printer developed other faults soon after and I could not figure them out to fix, so I had to replace that one. That is how I got into a colour Laser from Lexmark. I liked it so much that, when it failed badly, I went with a different colour laser by Brother. However, the up-front cost of such a printer would be hard to justify for the light printer uses you cite.

On that Epson printer, the four ink carts each are replaced one at a time in the travelling print head unit. The actual ink jets that squirt the ink onto the paper are part of the travelling assembly, NOT part of the ink cartridge. Replacement of that print head is NOT covered in the printer manual. They assume you are not competent to disassemble and replace that part, and for many home users that is about right. Certainly replacement of a print head would void your warranty. However, at the time you might want to do that, the warranty would have expired anyway.
 
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Feb 25, 2011
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Lot's of people say the brother printers are good, but I've never had one.

I also have the problem of rarely using a printer, so maybe I should get laser (or led) too. Sometimes I go 6 months without printing anything, and then only a few pages. But when I need a printer, I REALLY do need it badly :)

Another problem is keeping it in my drafty old cabin. Humidity and temp swings wildly.

I'm on a very meager budget, so wonder if the refurbs can be a good choice, i.e. if they are really overhauled with new wear parts like rubber rollers, etc. or just "dusted off", reset, and resold.
Brother printers? ::ears perk up::

I've basically used nothing else for 25 years, so you could say I'm a bit of a fanboy. From what you're saying, I'd definitely go with a laser printer, anyway.

Refurbs are almost always a good way to go. Whether they get new rubber bits or not depends on who's doing the restoring, but even just buying one somebody else returned will usually save you 10-15% off MSRP on a "new" printer.

A printer that's less than 2-3 years old will probably not have been used enough to need new rollers. An older one, I'd hope they replaced things like the pickup rollers in the paper tray, but you can often "restore" those by wiping them down with rubbing alcohol or something anyway. Nobody ever cleans that stuff. And they're usually pretty cheap.

As printers, Brothers are middling. Inexpensive for what you get, reliable enough, decent quality output. But they're made from cheaper plastic (easy to break a paper tray by accident) and a lot of them (especially the lower end models) have some driver finickiness. They also sometimes will print out random pages of garbage if they're on a chatty network segment and think the traffic is for them. (I've seen this mostly in office environments, less at home.)

Brother has, at least so far, refrained from pulling toner shenanigans like most other printer makers. So you can refill those cartridges or use generic/remanufactured equivalents to your hearts' content. So you can save a lot of money in the long run if you print a lot. That's the main appeal I think.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
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I have an old Canon 3 in 1 I bought refurbished years and years ago. At one point the print head was clogged. It was a simple job to remove the print head. You just need to be careful with the print head. To clean it I gently sat it on a few folded paper towels soaked in Windex.

Here is an old link to a forum where I learned how to clean the print head. I was surprised to find out the forum is still active. https://www.nifty-stuff.com/
 
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I can't figure out how to even get TO the print head let alone trying to remove it.

I can see it and touch it, but there is no play anywhere.
 
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I had a Canon printer a couple of years ago with Ink jet system, I payed like 200$ at that time for the printer and it was working very good. The thing is that I didn't use the colors almost at all I only had to print black and white documents and the colors where more for unexpected cases like printing a colorful graph or smth else. So of course with time my ink color cartridges got dried and whey I finally decided to print a graph my printer just got burned. I got my money back because I still had warranty but after that I went and bought the cheapest 50$ printer which I could find. The moral of the story is that it's not worthy to buy ink jet printers.
 

lakedude

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2009
2,694
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I always stick with HP. Have never been wrong.
Yeah I've loved HP since college. Gone out of the way to buy their stuff.

Our little computer company back in the day sold exclusively HP printers because you got a new head with every ink purchase so new ink fixed most common problems.

Our HP 9015 printer (shown in pic) worked great while we were all working from home during covid. Needing to sign in to an account to scan or print was a little annoying but it was great to be able to print from a PC or phone from anywhere in the house wirelessly. Loved it until i went to buy ink and it was $100. Well that XL ink will last a long time for as little as we print, i thought... got maybe 25 pages out of that $100 investment and then the thing just quit because it was out of one color. Wouldn't scan, wouldn't print in B&W. It burns ink just sitting there and i swear it uses ink when you just scan something. Ink is now up to $120.

Rather than spend $120 on ink for the HP i recently bought a $170 B&W Brother MFC-L2690DW. The Brother also works great from PC or phone but no stupid fiddly account is required. No $120 ink refills either. A brand name cartridge is $70 and off brand refills are dirt cheap.

To be fair this early in the life of the HP i still loved it. Time will tell if still love the Brother after needing refills but i might not need refills for 20 years as little as we print.
 

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