The anti-crypto thread

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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,137
3,540
126
crashtech said:
No it doesn't. It applies to Western governments assessing the actions of individuals, which is the context of this discussion. Dragging foreign policy into this is a red herring, bad enough, but dragging P&N into this really tells me what a good little authoritarian you are.
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I'm about as anti authoritarian as they get. But, you do you, be as publically wrong as you want to be.
 
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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,137
3,540
126
crashtech said:
An anti-authoritarian who doesn't value the presumption of innocence. Got it.
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Who said that I don't value it? I just said that it doesn't actually exist in the way you claim. I would certainly value having a trillion dollars in my bank account. But that trillion dollars in my bank account doesn't exist. I don't see why you can't tell the difference between the two concepts.
 
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JTsyo

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,748
900
126
Problem with crypto is most that are in it don't really believe in it. They are not buying crypto and spending it. They buy and hold hoping that it goes up. It's just a get rich scheme instead of a decentralized currency. Those that do use it tend to be those that want to keep things away form the authorities. Crypto isn't accepted mainstream.
 
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T

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,862
68
91
www.bing.com
JTsyo said:
Problem with crypto is most that are in it don't really believe in it. They are not buying crypto and spending it. They buy and hold hoping that it goes up. It's just a get rich scheme instead of a decentralized currency. Those that do use it tend to be those that want to keep things away form the authorities. Crypto isn't accepted mainstream.
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I mean, that describes the majority of stock holdings too. And bonds. And most deposits in general.

Most people have no idea who the bank is investing that money in, or what the fund managers are investing in, or even understand half of what companies that comprise the S&P 500 even do to make money. Which is where most of our invested money is. They just want the numbers to go up.
 
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AdamK47

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,273
2,885
126
Train said:
I mean, that describes the majority of stock holdings too. And bonds. And most deposits in general.

Most people have no idea who the bank is investing that money in, or what the fund managers are investing in, or even understand half of what companies that comprise the S&P 500 even do to make money. Which is where most of our invested money is. They just want the numbers to go up.
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Bitcoin has been over $40K for over a week now. Where have you been? You're late.
 
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IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,268
27,354
136
biostud said:
payments that can't be tracked... :p
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I've been assured in this very thread that every payment is tracked. I've also learned that coin enthusiasts lose their shit when a law enforcement entity suggests unmasking the users and their transactions. I guess folks will have to learn that "don't talk on the phone" applies to blockchain.
 
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T

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,862
68
91
www.bing.com
BFG10K said:
But all those things get value from real things that actually exist, like gold, oil, property, buildings, IP, etc.

What real things does Bitcoin get value from?
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lol don't make me laugh.

Tesla was at one point valued at more than the top 9 carmakers in the world combined. That's every bit of speculation and nothing to do with value.

Nikola was at 29 Billion without having ever shipped a single vehicle.

The stock market is largely propped up by artificially low interest and money printing.
 
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BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,979
126
Train said:
Tesla was at one point valued at more than the top 9 carmakers in the world combined. That's every bit of speculation and nothing to do with value.
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Musk may be over-valued, but electric cars, charging stations, rockets and X are real and objectively exist. These non-imaginary things add value to people who use them.

Again, what real things that objectively exist is Bitcoin's value based on?

Bitcoin is like buying shares in a company that will never exist, will never have a product or employees, and will never create anything.

In order for you to make money, people even dumber than you have to come along, and have to stay dumber than you long enough for you to convert your Bitcoin to fiat.

Fiat, whose value comes from real things that objectively exist like oil, property, buildings, gold, IP, etc, and is backed by the government and insurance companies. That's why you never see anyone ever convert Bitcoin into GiraffeAnusLickingCoin, or vice-versa.
 
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repoman0

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,505
3,395
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Tesla and other EV stocks may be overvalued, but their value is based on expected growth of real assets and company revenue being higher than one could get elsewhere, even given the high initial price.

The obvious difference is that if Musk came out and said “lithium’s gone, no more new cars will be sold, revenue is $0 this quarter and for all future quarters” the stock would instantly go to 0. Bitcoin of course produces nothing and provides no real value, and maintaining its future value is completely dependent on more suckers materializing, as previously pointed out.

I did find it funny that the chosen comparison to crypto was Tesla, one of the most highly speculative stocks in the market, rather than the other top 9 carmakers’ stocks with reasonable valuations and quarterly dividends based on profits.
 
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T

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,862
68
91
www.bing.com
The point being that people speculating on something doesn't make it valueless, as plenty of "value backed" things are not immune to speculation.

Bitcoin is not a company, it's backing value is that it is not endlessly inflationary, it's controlled by it's users and holders, not a government.

If you don't see a value in that, then don't buy it. I don't buy a lot of things I dont value, but I don't go on the internet endlessly arguing with people who do. Like, what's the point?
 
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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,137
3,540
126
Train said:
Bitcoin is not a company, it's backing value is that it is not endlessly inflationary, it's controlled by it's users and holders, not a government.
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A bunch of people controlling something IS A GOVERNMENT. So, you created a government to control something because you don't like government to control something. Think about it.
 
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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,137
3,540
126
Train said:
rofl

tHiNk AbOuT iT
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Can't stand the truth? You created rules and enforcements and governmental control over crypto. Because you don't like rules and enforcements and governmental control.

For example, I can't just say that I created a crypto coin, I have to follow the rules and procedures. I can't just take your coins because there are laws. Etc. Yep, you are endorsing yet another government.
 
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T

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,862
68
91
www.bing.com
By your loose definition, EVERYTHING is a govt.

> You created rules

No I didn't. Satoshi did. Could the rules change? In theory yes. BCH tried to do this and went their own way. There were no charges filed, there was no war, nothing. I wouldn't call that a govt.
 
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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,137
3,540
126
Train said:
By your loose definition, EVERYTHING is a govt.

> You created rules

No I didn't. Satoshi did. Could the rules change? In theory yes. BCH tried to do this and went their own way. There were no charges filed, there was no war, nothing. I wouldn't call that a govt.
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"You" as in crypto users. Satoshi did not make all of crypto, so assigning it just to him seems inappropriate. A plural "you" seems better. But, we could go with a single dictator model if you wish. Why you really want to follow a dictator is beyond me. Especially if you are anti-government.

Government: "the body of persons that constitutes the governing authority of a political unit or organization" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/government First definition of the word. It isn't loose, it is the exact definition. Wars or charges are not in the definition.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,647
15,841
136
I still don’t get why I would voluntarily pay for something with Bit Coin or accept payment for something by Bit Coin.
I just don’t see a use case for any crypto other than speculative investment.
 
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MrSquished

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,594
19,982
136
hey, apparently when I was growing up my family really had created a government! always learning something new on the internet! when I was playing sports with rules we all agreed upon, we were playing government soccer! wow life makes so much more sense now!
 
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