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amdforever2
01-31-2003, 11:28 PM
I bought a 1992 Thunderbird.

It's head gasket blew less than 5 hours later. It was sold in kansas.

here is bill of sale text.


Text of bill of sale:

This document is to certify the sale terms of a 1992 Ford Thunderbird (VIN = 1FAPP6049NH129661)
The seller is (sellername).
The purchaser is (purchasername).

The terms of sale are as follows.

On January 31st 2003 $1150 will be paid to the seller. Purchaser will gain posession of vehicle at this time.

On February 7th an additional $226.01 will be given to the seller.

At this time seller will relinquish all rights to this vehcile and sign the title for this vehicle over to purchaser.

The total sale price is $1,376.01 as determined by Ebay Motors Auction. The item number for this Ebay Motors Auction is 2400850628.

By signing this document these parties certify:

Seller has recieved $1150.

Purchaser will pay $226.01 on February 7th, 2003.

Seller will sign the title over to purchaser upon recieving $226.01.

That the item description listed in the Ebay Motors Auction is accurate.

Seller may only regain posession of the vehicle if the $226.01 is not paid on the date mentioned and no agreement can be reached about payment at a later date. This sale is contingent upon the vehicle passing a Missouri State Safety Inspection. A Missouri State Safety Inspection certifies this vehicle is safe to drive. If this vehicle fails to pass a Missouri State Safety Inspection purchaser is responsible for bringing the vehicle to Missouri State Safety Inspection standards as long as bringing this vehicle to Missouri State Safety Inspection standards does not cost more than $300. If the costs for repairs to make this vehicle pass Missouri State Safety Inspection standards exceeds $300, purchaser will be refunded all funds paid to seller. For all purposes the parties agree that this vehicle is being sold in the state of Kansas and that this sale is subject to the laws of the state of Kansas.

It is signed by both people.

Can I sue him?

Somebody help me please omgomgomgomg

Eli
01-31-2003, 11:31 PM
No, but you can spend the what, whole 15 bucks on a new gasket, and put it on yourself. :P

amdforever2
01-31-2003, 11:32 PM
The repairs are estimated to be at least $1k.

zCypher
01-31-2003, 11:34 PM
If you do it yourself it'll not cost you near a fraction of that. ;)

911paramedic
01-31-2003, 11:34 PM
When did the gasket blow? When you got it, or when it was in the sellers possesion? If the latter, it is their fault because you bought the car as advertised, not blown.

Ultima
01-31-2003, 11:34 PM
Private party? These sales are "as-is", you can try to put a new gasket on yourself. It's what I did when this happened to me (albeit 2 months after the purchase, not 5 hours).

Ultima
01-31-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
The repairs are estimated to be at least $1k.

It shouldn't cost you more than $100 - $150 if you do it yourself, and that's for everything you'll need (new gaskets, bolts, oil, coolant etc..)

Carrot44
01-31-2003, 11:37 PM
It won't pass the safety inspection (can't drive it) cost more then 300 to repair.

Ken

notfred
01-31-2003, 11:37 PM
1) How do you know the gasket is blown?

2) You can't sue because your car broke.

3) You can refuse to pay the outstanding $225, but if the gaskets blew while the car was in your possesion, you will have to pay HIM to fix them.

4) If you feel like learning about cars, you can fix it yourself for less than $100.

amdforever2
01-31-2003, 11:37 PM
maybe its not a head gasket

i dont know

smoke out of exhaust

tons of smoke
engine shakes



the contract says any inspection point costing more than $300 entitles me to full refund

this is inspection point and it costs more than $300

KingNothing
01-31-2003, 11:37 PM
If this vehicle fails to pass a Missouri State Safety Inspection purchaser is responsible for bringing the vehicle to Missouri State Safety Inspection standards as long as bringing this vehicle to Missouri State Safety Inspection standards does not cost more than $300. If the costs for repairs to make this vehicle pass Missouri State Safety Inspection standards exceeds $300, purchaser will be refunded all funds paid to seller.

Can't you use this to get your money back?

notfred
01-31-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by: Carrot39
It won't pass the safety inspection (can't drive it) cost more then 300 to repair.

Ken

Could you please tell me what a Safety Inspection in Missouri consists of?

notfred
01-31-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
maybe its not a head gasket

i dont know

smoke out of exhaust

tons of smoke
engine shakes



the contract says any inspection point costing more than $300 entitles me to full refund

this is inspection point and it costs more than $300


What happened to it? You said it was fine this morning. Explain what you were doing when it broke, and a more detailed description of the problems you're having.

amdforever2
01-31-2003, 11:40 PM
The vehicle sure as hell cant have smoke billowing out of the exhaust notfred!!!!

KingNothing, I'm not a lawyer, I don't know, can I?


I bought it 5 hours ago. I was driving it normal. Engine started to intermittently lose power, temperature went all the way up, smoke.

KingNothing
01-31-2003, 11:41 PM
Missouri safety inspection (http://www.asashop.org/legis/safety/northcentral.htm)

Doesn't sound like it would cover your problem per se, BUT it sounds like your car is going to fail an emissions inspection.

BTW, have you talked to the seller yet? Maybe he'll take the car back, you never know. Simplest solution to the problem.

911paramedic
01-31-2003, 11:43 PM
Is it dark smoke, or blue? Dark smoke is oil, lighter smoke is probably water.

Does it blow it while accelerating or when you let off the gas and coast, it makes a difference for diagnostics. Shaking engine may be a motor mount.

notfred
01-31-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
The vehicle sure as hell cant have smoke billowing out of the exhaust notfred!!!!
KingNothing, I'm not a lawyer, I don't know, can I?
I bought it 5 hours ago. I was driving it normal. Engine started to intermittently lose power, temperature went all the way up, smoke.

you can have smoke POURING out of the exhaust w/o it being a head gasket.

Go look at the car. Open up the radiator (make sure it's cool first!) and see if it's full or low. See if there's any oil in the coolant. also, pull the spark plugs and look and see if any of them look rusty or tarnished (moreso than the rest of them).

slick230
01-31-2003, 11:44 PM
I think "safety inspection" means that the head and taillights, brakes, turn signals, wipers, etc. work. Not that the engine is running. If you fail a safety inspection, at least in NJ, you're not supposed to drive the car until you fix what was wrong with it. If your head gasket blew, that's not necessarily a safety inspection failure, that's just a run to the parts store for a new one. I dunno. :confused:

notfred
01-31-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by: KingNothing
it sounds like your car is going to fail an emissions inspection.

A head gasket leak won't likely make a car fail emissions. Most of the extra crap coming out the tailpipe is water, and they don't check for that on the smog machine.

amdforever2
01-31-2003, 11:53 PM
The car is obviously currently unsafe to drive. It will not pass a safety inspection.


To repair headgaskets do you not have to remove the engine etc etc?

BigNeko
01-31-2003, 11:58 PM
amdforever2,
Please describe events from "we shook hands, I take the keys, start her up and start heading back to Missouri" to now.

Did you check all fluid levels before you left?

Include approx. time of day, weather, pretty much all the details pertaining to the car and conditions leading up to the event.

It may take a little time, but someone in here could help save you big $$$ and/or alot of aggravation.

Good luck.

amdskip
02-01-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
The car is obviously currently unsafe to drive. It will not pass a safety inspection. To repair headgaskets do you not have to remove the engine etc etc?Engine removal is not required but you should get a second opinion before you do anything drastic.

Eli
02-01-2003, 12:03 AM
I would bet that the engine has had head gasket trouble before, and the seller replaced it and sold it just to get rid of the piece of sh!t. :) Good luck.

Whatever you do, have the heads cleaned up by a machine shop.. Warpage could be the problem, especially if the head gasket blowing caused the engine to overheat.

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
The car is obviously currently unsafe to drive. It will not pass a safety inspection.
To repair headgaskets do you not have to remove the engine etc etc?

picture of my car when replacing the head gaskets (http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user=notfred&category=Car&file=motor2.jpg) Note that the motor is still in the car.

Pepsi90919
02-01-2003, 12:05 AM
did you not check the condition of the oil and coolant and all other fluids before the purchase?

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:06 AM
Can headgaskets alone cause:


Fuel tank to drop by 1/4
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust
engine to stutter
overheating

Pepsi90919
02-01-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Can headgaskets alone cause:


Fuel tank to drop by 1/4
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust
engine to stutter
overheating

no.

Pepsi90919
02-01-2003, 12:08 AM
you're sure you're not confusing water vapour with actual smoke? smoke stays in the air and is pretty heavy, exhaust will smell sweet if it's glycol, water vapour pretty much comes out and starts to float up and/or disappear.

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Can headgaskets alone cause:


Fuel tank to drop by 1/4
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust
engine to stutter
overheating

the last one (overheating) usually happens with blown headgaskets, engine stuttering would be a lot less likely, but possible. Head gaskets usually will not make a lot of smoke after blowing. They may make a little bit, usually under full throttle, but not a whole lot. It wouldn't affect the fuel level at all.

slick230
02-01-2003, 12:11 AM
Dude, no matter what anybody says here, you're gonna have to have a mechanic physically *look* at the engine and tell you what's wrong. If you have all these other problems, then you might have a lot more than a blown head gasket?

BigNeko
02-01-2003, 12:13 AM
Can headgaskets alone cause:
blah-blah-blah

Well folks, you saw it. Tried to help an Anandtecher out by giving some guidance on what info to give to get maximum return.
It isn't just WHAT happens, but also the ORDER that it happens in that is important.

But that's okay, buddy. You'll get expert advice by saying "MY headgasket is blown, what do I do."

Good Luck.

Really.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:14 AM
It is white, bluish smoke.

It lost 1/4 tank of gas.

It hit the top of temperature gauge.

The engine began to ............ thump, ping, act unnormal?


What can cause this?

Eli
02-01-2003, 12:16 AM
Is it blue-grey smoke, or is it white smoke?

lol.. are you parked on a hill? losing 1/4 tank of gas doesent have anything to do with your engine, unless you just used a quarter tank of gas and didn't realize it :P

I wouldn't be running the engine anymore if it's acting funny. Have a mechanic look at it ASAP.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:17 AM
Incident began when I started car and engaged reverse. Engine seemed to almost die, but I reversed. I noticed smoke. I switch to drive. Engine still acting kinda funny. End up on freeway, temperature is rising. More smoke. Tons of smoke. Temperature all the way up. Exit, enter parking lot. Smoke everywhere. Cabin, everywhere. Temperature gauge still at maximum, notice fuel has apparently decreased by 1/4 tank. Turn off car. Cry.


That is the event sequence.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:18 AM
blue-gray I believe. Unsure.

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Incident began when I started car and engaged reverse. Engine seemed to almost die, but I reversed. I noticed smoke. I switch to drive. Engine still acting kinda funny. End up on freeway, temperature is rising. More smoke. Tons of smoke. Temperature all the way up. Exit, enter parking lot. Smoke everywhere. Cabin, everywhere. Temperature gauge still at maximum, notice fuel has apparently decreased by 1/4 tank. Turn off car. Cry.


That is the event sequence.

Your car is overheating and it has nothing to do w/ headghaskets. If headgaskets blow and start smoking, the smoke will come out the tailpipes. you probably have a leaking radiator hose or a bad water bump or something. Cars will ping when they ocerheat, it doesn't mean a headgasket is blown.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:24 AM
What is causing it to overheat and smoke from exhaust and everywhere?

apoppin
02-01-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Incident began when I started car and engaged reverse. Engine seemed to almost die, but I reversed. I noticed smoke. I switch to drive. Engine still acting kinda funny. End up on freeway, temperature is rising. More smoke. Tons of smoke. Temperature all the way up. Exit, enter parking lot. Smoke everywhere. Cabin, everywhere. Temperature gauge still at maximum, notice fuel has apparently decreased by 1/4 tank. Turn off car. Cry.


That is the event sequence.Dude, you (edit: may have) killed your own car. It might have been REALLY simple if you had STOPPED IMMEDIATELY when you noticed a problem. Entering the freeway was stu . . . uh, poor judgement.

If your needle pegged with the engine at Maximum HOT your entire engine may be DOA.

YES, get a mechanic to look at it, ASAP. If it is a big V8 you might have got lucky.

And - the worst news - you will probably be stuck with the entire repair bill.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:26 AM
I wasn't sure there was a problem when I got on freeway.

To get it home i put tons of water in the thing and limped home.

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
What is causing it to overheat and smoke from exhaust and everywhere?

Like I said, maybe a radiator hose, or the water pump.

And apoppin is right, you can kill your car by overheating it. In fact, overheating can cause a headgasket leak.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:30 AM
Could this possibly be a cracked head?

apoppin
02-01-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
I wasn't sure there was a problem when I got on freeway.

To get it home i put tons of water in the thing and limped home. Now you know what to know next time you are not sure. If the temperature is rising suddenly get over to the side and STOP the engine ASAP!!!

As I "added" in the edit to my previous post - you may be lucky if you have a big V-8 engine (they tolerate extreme temperatures much better than the smaller engines) . . . have a mechanic check it out and GOOD LUCK!

It could be a BLOWN engine. Overheat is SERIOUS!

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Could this possibly be a cracked head?

A head will not just crack for no reason on a stock driving at regualr speeds. Even if it did, you'd still get smoke out the tailpipes.

BigNeko
02-01-2003, 12:45 AM
Looking for the site that translates VIN to tell what type engine is in car. That will determine whether sh!tty Ford V6 or 302 V8. (Former T-Bird owner.)

So after you got on the freeway, then notice the smoke (or steam), then stop. What was the weather like? Hot?
How did you know you needed tons of water? Let car cool down, open radiator cap and do not see ANY water?
DID YOU ALSO CHECK OIL AT THAT TIME? Good or no good? Did you have to add any oil?

af2, to save you the trouble later, you should be writing all that happened down anyway. You WILL need to have a mechanic look at it, and it will be ALOT easier to just hand that person a piece of paper with EXACTLY what happened on it, rather than the mechanic having to pull teeth to get the story.

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by: BigNeko
Looking for the site that translates VIN to tell what type engine is in car. That will determine whether sh!tty Ford V6 or 302 V8. (Former T-Bird owner.)

He already said it was the 3.8

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:53 AM
It had oil.

It took two 32oz glasses of mcdonalds water and bucket to refill it

i started and it spat some water out so i had to add more

then i limped home

it never hit MAXIMUM hot, just up there.

likelyhood of cracked block, warped block, cracked heads, or warped headS?

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 12:56 AM
Is there any way I can determine if there is permanent engine damage like cracked block and all that needs to be fixed is gaskets?

Can a mechanic with hood up look and see, or does the car have to be lifted?

Evadman
02-01-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Is there any way I can determine if there is permanent engine damage like cracked block and all that needs to be fixed is gaskets?

Can a mechanic with hood up look and see, or does the car have to be lifted?

These things can be diagnosed, but the only way to know for sure is engine disassembly and inspection.

notfred
02-01-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
It had oil.

It took two 32oz glasses of mcdonalds water and bucket to refill it

i started and it spat some water out so i had to add more

then i limped home

it never hit MAXIMUM hot, just up there.

likelyhood of cracked block, warped block, cracked heads, or warped headS?

The easeist and cheapest way to do it is to put the thing back together, fix whatever broke, and then drive it and see if there's any new problems.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:00 AM
How long does it take to replace head gasket?

Does car have to be lifted to do this?

If I have the seller replace the headgasket at his own expense and everything is fine I will know right?


If he replaces headgasket and everything is unfine I will know it is cracked or something right?

Eli
02-01-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
How long does it take to replace head gasket?

Does car have to be lifted to do this?

If I have the seller replace the headgasket at his own expense and everything is fine I will know right?


If he replaces headgasket and everything is unfine I will know it is cracked or something right?

Hmm.. Mechanics love people like you. :P

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:03 AM
considering the price of a headgasket, I think i'd like to replace it and see if that fixes it.

How hard is it to fix the headgasket? The seller is moderately car savvy I believe, could he do it with basic tools and no lift?

apoppin
02-01-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Is there any way I can determine if there is permanent engine damage like cracked block and all that needs to be fixed is gaskets?

Can a mechanic with hood up look and see, or does the car have to be lifted?
A good mechanic will be able to tell a lot by a simple inspection and "running" the car. He will then tell you what needs to be done or what needs disassembly. Get mechanic references from people you trust and have the car looked at ASAP (or Monday). Do not drive it in the meantime.

You might have got lucky or you might have major expenses. NO ONE here can tell for sure without a more "hands on" approach (unless we have Psychic Mechanics. :P

:D

EDIT: It is obvious that you are the rawest of NOOBS re:car and car repair. That is not your fault - but be prepared to PAY and PAY and PAY until you learn more. I'd really suggest you enlist the aid of an older and more knowledgeable person to take your car into tepairs with you. ;)

Evadman
02-01-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
How long does it take to replace head gasket?
Not entirely sure what book is on a 3800. call any shop and ask tommorow morning.

Does car have to be lifted to do this?
no

If I have the seller replace the headgasket at his own expense and everything is fine I will know right?
hopefully the problems would be gone, so yes.

If he replaces headgasket and everything is unfine I will know it is cracked or something right?
:confused: shops do not replace things willy nilly. well, compentent shops anyway.

This is my recomendation: Get your money back. stop posing here, go to sleep. Tomorrow, call the seller and ask for a refund.

BigNeko
02-01-2003, 01:05 AM
He already said it was the 3.8
My eyes must be playing tricks cause I don't see that. Help me out.

notfred
02-01-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
considering the price of a headgasket, I think i'd like to replace it and see if that fixes it.

How hard is it to fix the headgasket? The seller is moderately car savvy I believe, could he do it with basic tools and no lift?

He is not going to fix your headgasket for free. At the very minimum it will take one skilled person a full days work, and that's if he's good at it and doesn't have any complications.

notfred
02-01-2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by: BigNeko

He already said it was the 3.8
My eyes must be playing tricks cause I don't see that. Help me out.

This is the second thread he posted about this car today.

Evadman
02-01-2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by: BigNeko

He already said it was the 3.8
My eyes must be playing tricks cause I don't see that. Help me out.

I do not see it either. notfred probably confused this with one fo the other 8000 threads about the 3800's. It probably has the 3.8 anyway.


Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: BigNeko

He already said it was the 3.8
My eyes must be playing tricks cause I don't see that. Help me out.

This is the second thread he posted about this car today.

Or it could be that notfred has a better memory than me :P

Ultima
02-01-2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Can headgaskets alone cause:


Fuel tank to drop by 1/4
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust
engine to stutter
overheating

no.

The last 3, yes. The first one? I dunno...

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:11 AM
It is the V6.

I called seller requesting refund the minute I walked in the door. He said he'd come by tommorow and take a look at what has gone wrong.

Replacing head gasket is 8 hours of work?

Ultima
02-01-2003, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Can headgaskets alone cause:


Fuel tank to drop by 1/4
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust
engine to stutter
overheating

the last one (overheating) usually happens with blown headgaskets, engine stuttering would be a lot less likely, but possible. Head gaskets usually will not make a lot of smoke after blowing. They may make a little bit, usually under full throttle, but not a whole lot. It wouldn't affect the fuel level at all.

hehe.. guess that depends on what you call a "blown" head gasket. When mine went, I made enough smoke to fog up both sides of a 6-lane boulevard, and I mean FOG up. I had to keep the engine above 1500 rpm or so to keep it from stalling.

BigNeko
02-01-2003, 01:12 AM
NO ONE here can tell for sure without a more "hands on" approach
And no mechanic is gonna go through the teeth pulling we just did.

amdforever2,

WRITE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DOWN!!!!

notfred
02-01-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
It is the V6.

I called seller requesting refund the minute I walked in the door. He said he'd come by tommorow and take a look at what has gone wrong.

Replacing head gasket is 8 hours of work?

Did you see the picture I posted?

T2T III
02-01-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Can headgaskets alone cause:


Fuel tank to drop by 1/4
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust
engine to stutter
overheating

Fuel tank to drop by 1/4 - NO
Smoke to billow en masse from exhaust - YES
engine to stutter - YES
overheating - YES, because most of the coolant is probably gone.

I had a blown headgasket several years ago. On a Sunday morning, I decided to drive the car 3 miles to the repair facility from where it broke down. I topped off the coolant before starting the drive. About 200 feet from the repair facility, a county police officer pulled me over and asked if I was trying to cause an accident with all the smoke I was creating. :Q - He put the flashers on and followed me to the service station. Fortunately, he didn't write me a ticket, but did use some four letter words and didn't seem too happy with me.

dxkj
02-01-2003, 01:16 AM
All I can say is take a deep breath, and have it looked at by a mechanic tommorrow. We can give you all the advice in the world on what it "could" be, but based on your limited knowledge I wouldnt go tearing things off and replacing parts. Contact the seller, tell him its F!!@# up from the very beginning, and that you want to take it to a mechanic and have it looked at, see if he is even partly willing to refund you your money. If not suck up the inspection cost and find out exactly what is wrong with it. A mechcanic can tell you, we can't. Your putting 1.3k + buying this car may as well spend 20-50 dollars having someone tell you what the problem is and to see if its a big deal or just something small.


BTW, 99% sure the guy knew something was messed up and thats why he sold it for that price, I think I saw you post earlier asking if this was a good deal, and everyone said yeah if there isnt something majorly wrong with it


Best of luck friend, but take it to a mechanic and figure out exactly whats up

Ultima
02-01-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: amdforever2
I wasn't sure there was a problem when I got on freeway.

To get it home i put tons of water in the thing and limped home. Now you know what to know next time you are not sure. If the temperature is rising suddenly get over to the side and STOP the engine ASAP!!!

As I "added" in the edit to my previous post - you may be lucky if you have a big V-8 engine (they tolerate extreme temperatures much better than the smaller engines) . . . have a mechanic check it out and GOOD LUCK!

It could be a BLOWN engine. Overheat is SERIOUS!

Yep. For my car, I blew my head-gasket, which caused the engine to overheat, which probably precipitated the cracked rings (one was all in little pieces), and that hole in the #3 piston in my car. Thankfully, wasn't too hard to fix, just take off the head and the oil pan. The block is iron so it wasn't cracked or anything ;)

slick230
02-01-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by: BigNeko

He already said it was the 3.8
My eyes must be playing tricks cause I don't see that. Help me out.


Check the Ebay page, it say's it's the 3.8
LOOKIE HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=2400850628)

T2T III
02-01-2003, 01:17 AM
it never hit MAXIMUM hot, just up there.
Remember, the standard gauges and idiot lights on vehicles are not very accurate. Your vehicle's engine could have hit very high temperatures and the temp. gauge could have been a bit slow to respond.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:18 AM
WJE, you drove 3 miles. About same distance as I.

You drove these miles with blown headgasket correct?

What car was it? Was your engine permanetly damaged?

T2T III
02-01-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: amdforever2
It is the V6.

I called seller requesting refund the minute I walked in the door. He said he'd come by tommorow and take a look at what has gone wrong.

Replacing head gasket is 8 hours of work?

Did you see the picture I posted?
Yes. Damn, talk about a lot of "back breaking" work!

Ultima
02-01-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
considering the price of a headgasket, I think i'd like to replace it and see if that fixes it.

How hard is it to fix the headgasket? The seller is moderately car savvy I believe, could he do it with basic tools and no lift?

Just get a repair manual and do it yourself, otherwise you may as well junk the car as you don't want to pay a garage to do it for what that car is worth. Fixing a head-gasket can take a while depending on the car. Took quite a while for mine waiting for parts, bolts broke etc... pain in the ass. Best to get a friend who is mechanically inclined to help you out.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:21 AM
I don't want to replace the head gasket if that's not whats wrong and besides I can't tell if the engine is permanetly damaged or not. If it is, replacing the head gasket at 8 hours work isn't worth it.

notfred
02-01-2003, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by: wje

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: amdforever2
It is the V6.

I called seller requesting refund the minute I walked in the door. He said he'd come by tommorow and take a look at what has gone wrong.

Replacing head gasket is 8 hours of work?

Did you see the picture I posted?
Yes. Damn, talk about a lot of "back breaking" work!

Yeah, leaning over an engine for 8 hours, and capping off the day by trying to lean forward and lift a 50lb cylider head or two off that engine from 2-3 feet in front of you does hurt your back.

T2T III
02-01-2003, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
WJE, you drove 3 miles. About same distance as I.

You drove these miles with blown headgasket correct?

What car was it? Was your engine permanetly damaged?
To answer your questions:

Yes, I drove 3 miles with a blown head gasket. Actually, 3 miles in a severely-blown state. My wife drove it about 5 miles earlier in the day and some silly mechanic told her nothing was wrong with it - even though the engine was shaking like crazy. She left the car at the shop and found another ride to work. I picked up the car later that evening and drove it for a while. It was good for the first 7 miles, then all heck broke lose. I was on I-95 in lots of traffic. A trucker was blocking the right shoulder as he was idling along, so I couldn't pass him to get to the next exit.

My car was a 1984 Pontiac Sunbird with a 1.8L 4 cylinder engine.

My car was not permanently damaged. Actually, the head was slightly warped which required it to be "shaved" slightly. Back in 1988 when this incident happened, my repair bill was about $600 (including the machine shop work on the head.)

Antisocial Virge
02-01-2003, 01:24 AM
OK, everybody who said "Just buy a head gasket and replace it" How many of you guys have ever done one? I love these threads...." Its just a rear seal.. $5 and 15 min of work"

EDIT: I have seen VW diesels crack between both the intake and exhaust on every cylinder and still run fine. In fact the VW dealer mechanic says that was a common thing and never seemed to cause any harm. In fact the rabbit diesel I had rebuilt had it.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:27 AM
So if WJEs 4 cylinder can take that much abuse and not crack, shouldnt my V6 in theory be fine still?

Just need replacement of head gasket?

I still think it's head gasket because head gaskets are common failures on this car.

Ultima
02-01-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
I don't want to replace the head gasket if that's not whats wrong and besides I can't tell if the engine is permanetly damaged or not. If it is, replacing the head gasket at 8 hours work isn't worth it.

if it was burning coolant, there's a good change a head gasket was involved (as opposed to just leaking coolant).

Seriously, the symptoms you list (other than the fuel problem) are what happened to me when my head-gasket went.
Just get the car diagnosed by a mechanic, hands-on is the only way to tell as nobody here can check your car through the net ;)

notfred
02-01-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
So if WJEs 4 cylinder can take that much abuse and not crack, shouldnt my V6 in theory be fine still?

Just need replacement of head gasket?

I still think it's head gasket because head gaskets are common failures on this car.

Fine, replace the head gaskets and dont lsiten to anything anyone said. Tear the whole top of the motor apart, and then find out it was the water pump, but you were too stubborn to even check.

T2T III
02-01-2003, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by: Antisocial-Virge
OK, everybody who said "Just buy a head gasket and replace it" How many of you guys have ever done one? I love these threads...." Its just a rear seal.. $5 and 15 min of work"
I've done extensive work of this nature before. However, I'm not one of those advising this individual to perform the changing of the head gasket. Had this vehicle been one from the late 60s, early 70s, then changing both head gaskets on a V-8 would take about 2 hours (including the removal and replacement of the intake and exhaust manifolds. Plus, you have to keep in mind that most cars of this era had lots of room under the hood - and a simple vacuum line system with no smog gear. However, newer vehicles are cramped and there's lots of smog gear to worry about. Plus, the heads and such are probably aluminum, unlike the old cast heads of the past.

I don't think I'd ever think of replacing a head gasket on a newer vehicle. I'd wait until the seller comes over to look at the vehicle. Even if the seller wants to return half of the purchase price - and you do whatever you want to the car, I think you should take him up on the offer. Cut your losses at this point. Plus, as most vehicles get up there in the mileage area, most *honest* mechanics will be reluctant to just replace the head gasket. Normally, if just the head gasket gets replaced, other parts start to fail. I've had friends in similar situations and the mechanic didn't want to the do the work because he knew the work wouldn't last long - and he didn't want customers to be mad at him.

KGB1
02-01-2003, 01:32 AM
smoke out of exhaust

Happened to my dad's Bonneville. There was NO coolant in the reservoir nor the radiator, it must have leaked when I was away for 2 weeks and my sister was driving the car. I come back, get on the highway...(in my case no rattles, stalls) I'm getting onto an off ramp.. POOF... I look in my rear view mirror and there is a White Cloud of Smoke from my exhaust, my car barely gets to a repair shop. My cylinders are busted (good thing I didn't crack anything) car wouldnt even start afterwards. I paid $600 total repair, I was so pissed off. I lost money because my sister was not noticing how high the engine temp was when she drove it every day to work. Man I learned later I could have done it for $200 easily myself. Try it out yourself man... no way will you pass an inspection if not dealt with.

Ultima
02-01-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by: Antisocial-Virge
OK, everybody who said "Just buy a head gasket and replace it" How many of you guys have ever done one? I love these threads...." Its just a rear seal.. $5 and 15 min of work"

EDIT: I have seen VW diesels crack between both the intake and exhaust on every cylinder and still run fine. In fact the VW dealer mechanic says that was a common thing and never seemed to cause any harm. In fact the rabbit diesel I had rebuilt had it.

I've done a head-gasket.. it was a pain in the ass but that's because everything was rusted and broke. It took forever the first time. To do it again would only take half a day or less now. That's how you learn though :)

T2T III
02-01-2003, 01:34 AM
no way will you pass an inspection if not dealt with.
Here in Virginia, if a car has *any* visible smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe, the car automatically fails the inspection.

Evadman
02-01-2003, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2

I still think it's head gasket because head gaskets are common failures on this car.

Yesterday I was driving down the road and turned on my radio. A few seconds later my s-10 stalled and would not start no matter how long I cranked it for.

The engine it has is a 2.8L v6. These are known for blowing up all the time. I will change that first without even looking into anything else because it is a common failure on this truck.

Heaven forbid it be because the ignition fuse also powers the radio, and the fuse blew.

Antisocial Virge
02-01-2003, 01:36 AM
Actually we had a ford 302 smoke out the exhaust once. She dropped a intake valve and the piston decided to exit out the cylinder wall :) Nothing like pulling the dipstick and finding 6 inches of milk on it.

We were changing a intake manifold gasket once on a 360 ford and found a quarter in the lifter valley, never did figure that one out. :confused: Them were the days.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:38 AM
Would bad water pump, which causes overheating, cause the engine to smoke and stutter?

It was smoking a little before it even heated up. Turn ignition = smoke in minor amounts, before any chance of heat.

Antisocial Virge
02-01-2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Would bad water pump, which causes overheating, cause the engine to smoke and stutter?

It was smoking a little before it even heated up. Turn ignition = smoke in minor amounts, before any chance of heat.

Take it to a mechanic, nobody can help yea anymore than give a guess on what it is over the internet and your eventually your gonna have to take it to a garage anyways.

Evadman
02-01-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Would bad water pump, which causes overheating, cause the engine to smoke and stutter?

It was smoking a little before it even heated up. Turn ignition = smoke in minor amounts, before any chance of heat.

You are missing the point. Badly I may add. Most of the people here will hapily explain things. but we disapear when we have to repeat ourselves 2-3 times. Which reminds me... Bye!

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 01:57 AM
Sorry



Right now I'm -$1150 and + one smoking car and I know nothing.

Sorry.

:( :o

Bignate603
02-01-2003, 01:58 AM
My sister ran a car with no coolant, warped the heads off the block (Crappy aluminum heads, should have been made out of iron). The car was toast. She's an idiot, and currently is driving a geo metro because that's all she can get.

Yes, running without coolant is BAD, very BAD.

incallisto
02-01-2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Sorry



Right now I'm -$1150 and + one smoking car and I know nothing.

Sorry.

:( :o

Take the car to a mechanic and have them check it out. In the immortal words of Jim Carrey (Dumb & Dumber, Lloyd Christmas): "Just go man!"

;)

EDIT: Just read the first thread. When you say "Dirty fuel injectors (poured some stuff in gas tank to cure it)." what EXACTLY did you pour into the tank? I'm surprised no one else asked that (or at least I didn't see them).

CraigRT
02-01-2003, 02:59 AM
same thing happened to my friend
bought a really nice 1990 Sunbird GT turbo
head gasket lasted 3 days later.
we changed it in about 10 hours (take apart, put back together) and it only cost like $100
including new oil and everything (Canadian)
it's alot of work... esp. if you don't know much... but MAN does it save you in the long run.
if you can't fix it yourself, find a buddy who can... for cheap.

Iron Woode
02-01-2003, 01:08 PM
You best hope the block isn't cracked. If it is, you're looking at a new engine.

I have rebuilt and modded engines. It can be easy or hard to repair a head gasket. One tool that is essential is a torque wrench.

DevilsAdvocate
02-01-2003, 01:13 PM
Ever consider contacting a lawyer licensed to practice in your state?

You may have rights that these pimple farmers simply don't know about.

Zenmervolt
02-01-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Would bad water pump, which causes overheating, cause the engine to smoke and stutter?

It was smoking a little before it even heated up. Turn ignition = smoke in minor amounts, before any chance of heat. The stuttering could easily be the dirty injectors (if the injectors are indeed dirty and the seller didn't just say that to cover something up). The minor smoke, if coming out the tailpipe and if the weather is cold and if the smoke was white, was probably just the normal condensation. Any car will pass a little bit of white vapor out the tailpipe when it starts up on a cold morning. It's likely that the car has overheated before, and that there was pre-existing damage which was not severe enough to show up to a novice.

Best Advice: Take the car to a competant and reputable mechanic and tell him what's wrong, ask him to take a look at it.

ZV

dxkj
02-01-2003, 02:21 PM
Just in case no one said this yet


take it to a mechanic
take it to a mechanic
take it to a mechanic
take it to a mechanic
take it to a mechanic
take it to a mechanic

no matter how much I am sure it is problem A or problem B there is no way to find out for sure unless one of us, or a friend of yours, or a mechanic who knows what they are doing looks at it.


Do yourself a favor, take it to a mechanic, after you figure out what the problem is then you can decide if you want to pursue legal action or not.

MorphineChild
02-01-2003, 02:26 PM
That sucks to hear, but maybe that is why he is selling his car on ebay instead of locally. I would never buy a car on ebay.

SuperSix
02-01-2003, 05:43 PM
Yep.. pulling teeth...

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS - YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS

Take it to a mechanic and be done with it.

No the seller isn't responsible for the repairs.

<shaking head>

Or buy a bicycle..

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 11:22 PM
Contacted previous owner, which I thought this guy was.

He isn't. Previous owner has never heard of this guy and says he junked it for $300.

It has cracked head gasket and cylinder heads are damaged because of it.

The previous owner had the same problem evaluated before junking it.

This means the seller misrepresented the vehicle and so many other things.

I will probably just rejunk the car and cut my losses.

apoppin
02-01-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Contacted previous owner, which I thought this guy was.

He isn't. Previous owner has never heard of this guy and says he junked it for $300.

It has cracked head gasket and cylinder heads are damaged because of it.

The previous owner had the same problem evaluated before junking it.

This means the seller misrepresented the vehicle and so many other things.

I will probably just rejunk the car and cut my losses.
BUMMER! Too bad . . . I think you learned a lot about "cars" the last couple of days.

So . . . you need an engine . . . you might "look around" for a "used" engine . . . but you'd also need to know a mechanic . . .

good luck (in the future)

Evadman
02-01-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by: amdforever2
Contacted previous owner, which I thought this guy was.

He isn't. Previous owner has never heard of this guy and says he junked it for $300.

It has cracked head gasket and cylinder heads are damaged because of it.

The previous owner had the same problem evaluated before junking it.

This means the seller misrepresented the vehicle and so many other things.

I will probably just rejunk the car and cut my losses.

SOunds like you need a lawer not a mechanic.

amdforever2
02-01-2003, 11:43 PM
Anyone know how to verify if a P.O. box even exists?

Sukhoi
02-02-2003, 02:09 AM
Contact the Post Office?