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View Full Version : Documentation Fee for new car seems too high.


ironk
06-25-2007, 06:00 AM
I posted the following in the Nissan forum, but then i found this thread. Here is what I am getting:


New 2007 Nissan Versa 1.8S Sedan Automatic + Power Package (power windows, locks, ABS).

Edmunds.com link. (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/nissan/versa/100840659/researchlanding.html)

Dealer Price: 14,500
Rebate: -500
Subtotal: 14,000

Now, we have the rest of the fees:

Tax: $700 (I am not sure how they calculate tax, is it after rebate and after doc fee or before?).

Documentation Fee: $444 <<----What the hell??

License and Fees: $94

I know that doc fees vary from state to state (maybe dealer to dealer too??), some even have laws. I live in MA, so what should i be realisticly be paying for doc fee? Is $444 too much, if so, how far can i haggle to lower it or elimnate it even? Thanks.

George P Burdell
06-25-2007, 06:56 AM
Also known as the Because-we-can fee

Linux23
06-25-2007, 07:20 AM
do not pay those dealer pure profit fee. if necessary threaten to take your business to another dealer.

Colt45
06-25-2007, 07:21 AM
tell them to eat it, or shove it.

jiggahertz
06-25-2007, 07:40 AM
I've never heard of a documentation fee. Are you sure it's not a destination fee?

ironk
06-25-2007, 07:56 AM
Nah, destination fee is included in the invoice price, iirc. The doc fee is something else...not sure what. Do they use like gold ink and paper? Wait, isn't everything done electronically nowadays anyways?

Either way, i am wondering what a fair fee is for registration, license and "doc" fee. Should i say that I will pay them $120 for all those combined? Is that a fair price?

rh71
06-25-2007, 08:11 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ironk
Nah, destination fee is included in the invoice price, iirc. </end quote></div>
From what I've ever seen, destination fee is always at the end of the sticker, calculated after MSRP. I don't think it's part of the invoice the dealers get.

Anyway, if it's just one of those fees dealers stick you with, haggle down the overall price some more to cover for it. Basically ask them to eat it, or something else at a similar cost.

BoomerD
06-25-2007, 08:50 AM
Doc fee is usually negotiable...IF they want to sell the car. AFAIC, the paperwork is part of the costs of doing business...they can eat it...some will, others won't.

Genx87
06-25-2007, 08:55 AM
Yeah that is ridiculous. I'd walk on something like that.

chin311
06-25-2007, 09:41 AM
whats the end result OP?

i just bought the exact same car...in silver. ;)

ironk
06-25-2007, 10:19 AM
dunno yet I have to call, trying to figure out if i should say outright that i won't pay it or pay someting...how much did you pay and what state are you located?

JeffreyLebowski
06-25-2007, 10:48 AM
HAHAHA, Texas law limits the doc fee to $50.

ironk
06-25-2007, 11:01 AM
keep laughing...at least we don't get burnt by the heat up here. Either way, we all get burnt: money or heat. Oh wait, we also get frozen in the winter, so i guess Texas has an edge.

brtspears2
06-25-2007, 11:16 AM
Tell the dealer to drop a 4 in that doc fee. $44 bucks sounds reasonable.

ViviTheMage
06-25-2007, 11:19 AM
sounds like a nifty way to say commission fee, btw shoulda put this in the garage.

realEZE
06-25-2007, 11:53 AM
Also known as "Administration Fee" in some parts. Basically extra money in dealership's pocket.

It's all negotiable.

FoBoT
06-25-2007, 11:56 AM
http://forums.anandtech.com/ca...tid=85&flcache=2571829 (http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.aspx?catid=85&flcache=2571829)

ironk
06-25-2007, 12:08 PM
what the?? There is a forum called the Garage? when did that happen?

EagleKeeper
06-25-2007, 12:09 PM
Dealer sends a runner to the DMV to process registration and title paperwork for 20-30 vehicles every few days.

Pays said person $15/hr for 4 hours work.
Depending on the DMV, person gets 4-6 vehicles done per hour.

Charges the sucker $$$ for paperwork fees that cost the dealer at max $20 in labor/overhead costs.

Sucker pays the fees because the dealer states that it is required.

Profit for the dealer ($$$-$20)/sucker :(

dud
06-25-2007, 04:49 PM
You are getting off cheap!

My wife and I are looking for a new car. The doc fees (here in Florida are $250 and the "Dealer Fee" is $600!

I am passing on every dealer who tries to pass off these "pure profit" fees to me.

ironk
06-25-2007, 05:08 PM
Well, i called and they said that the $444 is non-negotiable. I looked at quotes from other dealers, and the total car price is coming out to about the same from them too. Some are adding the fee into the invoice, while others are putting it in the "doc fee".

Guess there isn't a point in arguing if I can't find a cheaper one. :(

compuwiz1
06-25-2007, 05:08 PM
A $400+ doc fee is rediculous. This is coming from someone in the business. The standard doc fee in Ca. is $55 on purchases and $45 on leases. I even have to pay it when I buy a car. $55 is not a horendous amount of money, so nobody quibbles over it. We use it for defraying certain costs, such as shortages on taxes, underestimated license fees, high trade payoffs, etc.

$55= reasonable
$444 = rape

The problem is, if nobody elsewhere is going to sell you the car any cheaper, then not much you can do about it.

ElFenix
06-25-2007, 05:15 PM
dealers have to make their money somehow. if they're all the same price who cares what they call it?

Regs
06-25-2007, 05:27 PM
Arent new cars registered for 5 years now?

So 50-60 dollars x 5 is 250-300 dollars right there. Some states you pay for inspection every year (Like PA).

dud
06-25-2007, 06:51 PM
ironk,

"Guess there isn't a point in arguing if I can't find a cheaper one."

I am in the same boat. I read in this forum where someone (from my area) said that all the dealers that sell Hondas rape their customers with this fee. That being said all I care about is getting a fair deal. If they lower their price enough then I will swallow it. If they do not then I will either go elsewhere, perhaps another city or to another manufacturer. Honda would just lose another customer.

ironk
06-25-2007, 08:57 PM
well, what can we do? There are no laws here in MA about this, so rape is what we get. Even if there were laws, i still think the dealer will rape you in the invoice somehow. They almost always get you someway (giving you less for your trade-in, give you some rediculous financing, lying about the invoice price, etc). I think the important thing is that you do your research, and at least shop everywhere for prices to have an idea. Just don't pay 16,000 for a 14,000 car, including all the fees.

RiverDog
06-26-2007, 03:41 PM
Ten years selling cars, doc fee are pure and simple rip offs. How can they sell you a car and NOT do documents? The notary fees are set by the state. Some dealers charge $0 and some up to $100. Have them show you the section of the law that requires them, they can't. Some dealers used to charge a ADP fee as well. (ADP = Additional Dealer Profit )

ironk
06-27-2007, 01:18 PM
Alright, I have the agreement, and its clearer now (well, a little):

Versa 4DR 1.8S Sedan
w/Power Package (windows, doors, locks)+ABS brakes

$14,000 - Invoice Price ($500 rebate taken out already from this amont).
$249 - Doc fee
$195 - Sales Agent Fee
$100 - Title, registration Fee
$700 - Tax 5% MA
====
Total: 15,244

Sales Agent Fee + Doc Fee = $444 (the number i mentioned in the beginning of the thread).

RiverDog
06-27-2007, 01:39 PM
[quote]Originally posted by: ironk
Alright, I have the agreement, and its clearer now (well, a little):

Versa 4DR 1.8S Sedan
w/Power Package (windows, doors, locks)+ABS brakes

$14,000 - Invoice Price ($500 rebate taken out already from this amont).
$249 - Doc fee
$195 - Sales Agent Fee
$100 - Title, registration Fee
$700 - Tax 5% MA
====
Total: 15,244

Sales Agent Fee + Doc Fee = $444 (the number i mentioned in the beginning of the thread).[/

Exactly what is a "sales agent fee", doesn't the dealer pay the comission to his salesmen? and what does the "doc fee" give you? You are being ripped off. If this is really the invoice price then will he show you the invoice, and what about the holdback? You know how to tell if a dealer is lying... his mouth moves.

ironk
06-27-2007, 01:56 PM
they showed the invoice at $14500. And I don't think they are ever going to tell you about the holdback or any factory to dealer incentives. Just doesn't happen.

RiverDog
06-27-2007, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by: ironk
they showed the invoice at $14500. And I don't think they are ever going to tell you about the holdback or any factory to dealer incentives. Just doesn't happen.

You're right on that part. We almost never got into the holdback but don't let them pull the other crap, If they want a $50 doc fee, live with it, but refuse to be raped on the other stuff. Contact dealers in a 100 mile area and offer them $300 over invoice plus normal tax and title fees. tell them they get one shot and buy the cheapest. I've had people do this and it works. Your over $400 saving will let you shop a larger distance. EVERY dealer has to do the warranty service so don't let them play that game on you.

hydroponik
06-27-2007, 04:57 PM
I would read all the chapters on this site before going ahead w/ your purchase:

http://carbuyingtips.com/

compuwiz1
06-28-2007, 09:06 AM
The holdback is dealer's money that trickles in down the road, at certain intervals. They do not have to give it to you and almost never will. As a general rule, the only time the hold back is dipped into is in fleet sales.

RiverDog
06-28-2007, 09:36 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The holdback is dealer's money that trickles in down the road, at certain intervals. They do not have to give it to you and almost never will. As a general rule, the only time the hold back is dipped into is in fleet sales.</end quote></div>


Holdback is very seldom used as you say. Unless there is a big movation to make a sale. I spent 10 years in the business the last few as a fleet/leasing manager and again hardly ever used it. But it is up to the dealer and one of the bargaining tools is to let them know that you are aware of the holdback. Normally this defrays the intrest paid on the floor planning ( yes all the dealer's cars that you see on the lot have been financed and accumulate intrest monthly) so if a car comes in and sells right away that's extra profit. AFAIR I think there was a small qrace period for the intrest so the holdback can be eat up pretty quick. There is also a charge to the dealer for advertising that never shows up on the "invoice price". It used to be around $250 for Ford, and Chrysler was similar. That helps to pay for all those anoying ad's that you see and hear. Don't get me wrong, the dealer HAS to make a profit, but when I see these excessive fees, that's not right. At least have the balls to say "I want $XXX profit on this vehicle"