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Sureshot324
06-20-2007, 12:05 AM
Does anyone know of any animals that will kill members of its own species? I've heard that different colonies of ants can go to war with each other, and I'm curious on what species other than humans will commit murder and go to war. If anyone has links to good articles on the subject that would be great.

Twista
06-20-2007, 12:10 AM
some female spiders after sexxing i think. (its not an animal though)

cKGunslinger
06-20-2007, 12:11 AM
Damn near all carnivores, under certain circumstances. Primates. Many insects.

imported_Greenman
06-20-2007, 12:13 AM
Chimps kill and eat their own kind. Male lions will kill the young of another male, dolphins fight, I don't remember if they kill each other though. There are a few other others, watched a great show on discovery about it.

Mo0o
06-20-2007, 12:13 AM
Pretty much all carnivores will attack one another when resources get low.

I dont know about the "murder" tag. I dont think a cheetah is sitting in his cave secretly planning to off his buddy for the next gazelle that comes along

Dumac
06-20-2007, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by: Twista
some female spiders after sexxing i think. (its not an animal though)

What??

Tasmanian Devil mothers eat most of their litter after giving birth.

Biturbo
06-20-2007, 12:40 AM
Male bears will sometimes kill bear cubs.

CKent
06-20-2007, 01:56 AM
A fair amount of male mammals will occasionallly kill young of their species, usually if it's sired by someone other than them, sometimes even if it's theirs. In addition to the ones already mentioned, hippos have been observed doing this, and the shocker - domestic cats as well.

Compton
06-20-2007, 02:01 AM
Well dogfighting and cockfighting gives two examples.

HombrePequeno
06-20-2007, 02:09 AM
Chimpanzees commit genocide every now and again from what I've read. Also, wolverines will eat their own.

You've already pointed out that different colonies of ants will go to war. I think I've read about all of that in The Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond.

silverpig
06-20-2007, 02:31 AM
The better question would be what species DON'T kill their own kind. I'm guessing this list will be much shorter.

krunchykrome
06-20-2007, 09:39 AM
Monkeys/Gorillas

Tipsy Turtle
06-20-2007, 09:41 AM
Dolphins and porpoises have been known to go genocidal on other groups of their own.

Hannover
06-20-2007, 09:42 AM
The "Jungles" episode of Planet Earth had a very disturbing segment on Chimps. Two groups were having a turf war, the winners killed and ate one of the losers. They were just passing ribs and other parts around, happily munching away. The unique part of this was that they were in an area with an over abundance of food. Cannibalism is usually reserved for times of starvation.

Gibsons
06-20-2007, 09:44 AM
Mice will eat their young on occasion.

Preying Mantises after sex, similar to spiders.

some birds will kill siblings in the nest.

waggy
06-20-2007, 09:45 AM
also some baby birds will push out the others so they have all the food.



also i have a feeling this did not go the OP thought it would..

Mizugori
06-20-2007, 09:47 AM
I read that great white sharks cannibalize other great whites.

torpid
06-20-2007, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by: Mizugori
I read that great white sharks cannibalize other great whites.

I saw on Nature that they cannibalize each other in the womb.

Strk
06-20-2007, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by: silverpig
The better question would be what species DON'T kill their own kind. I'm guessing this list will be much shorter.

Cows

AmpedSilence
06-20-2007, 10:05 AM
I think most species kill each other or at least wound them to point where recovery is not possible. that's just how the stronger members of the species make sure that the better genetic material is passed on. Given that humans do it in a different manor and extent, it still happens throughout the animal world.

OutHouse
06-20-2007, 10:07 AM
house cats. male cats often kill and eat kittens.

So
06-20-2007, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: silverpig
The better question would be what species DON'T kill their own kind. I'm guessing this list will be much shorter.

Cows

Actually, think about all the head-butting battles between herbivores over mates. I'm sure that ends in death by goring often as well.

So in summary, there are few -- if any -- species that don't kill members of their own species.

Phoenix86
06-20-2007, 10:09 AM
Just about all big cats will kill the young of a female to make them go into season and have their offspring.


Originally posted by: waggy
also i have a feeling this did not go (way) the OP thought it would..

Well he did mention the ant thing, so I'm betting he was more curious than "humans are a unique evil" slant. ;)

Zenmervolt
06-20-2007, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: silverpig
The better question would be what species DON'T kill their own kind. I'm guessing this list will be much shorter.Cows "Don?t kid yourself, Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he?d eat you and everyone you care about!" - Troy McClure

ZV

txrandom
06-20-2007, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by: Twista
some female spiders after sexxing i think. (its not an animal though)

Spiders are animals...

MrWizzard
06-20-2007, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by: silverpig
The better question would be what species DON'T kill their own kind. I'm guessing this list will be much shorter.

QFT

LeiZaK
06-20-2007, 11:14 AM
Put a bunch of hungry pirahnas in a tank together and watch the show.

Steve
06-20-2007, 11:17 AM
Praying mantis, black widow spider.

Vic
06-20-2007, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by: silverpig
The better question would be what species DON'T kill their own kind. I'm guessing this list will be much shorter.

Agreed. It's some kind of bizarre utter-denial-of-reality myth that humans are the only animals that kill their own kind.

Examples:
- Roughly half of all adult male chimpanzees die through murder or warfare. They have warring tribes much like like primitive humans.
- Ants and termites, of course. There are so many of them on earth that it makes one wonder just who visiting aliens would consider to be the earth's dominate species. And their wars are epic.
- Most fish. Any fish breeder could tell you this, as most species will even eat their own offspring. Betta fish can't even be put together at all.
- Spiders, crabs, and lobsters (they put rubberbands on the claws for a reason).
- Many species of cats, especially lions. The "Lion King" story is actually business as usual among the prides, except without the happy ending.
- On and on.

The OP asked for a links, and a quick google brought up this interesting Time magazine article from nearly 30 years ago Text (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912086,00.html):

Animals That Kill Their Young

For India's langur monkeys, infanticide works

In his classic work On Aggression, Nobel Laureate Konrad Lorenz argued that man is the only species that regularly kills its own kind. This concept, which contrasted the order and restraint in the animal world with the chaotic aggressiveness of man. reflected the mood of the time: the shadow-of-the-Bomb pessimism of the '50s and early '60s. But Lorenz was wrong; since 1963, when his book was published, naturalists have identified dozens of species that kill their own, including lions, hippos, bears, wolves, hyenas, herring gulls and more than 15 types of primates other than man.

In the new perspective, animals are not benign machines that live for the group and kill only to eat. Instead, they are programmed for selfish, even murderous acts when survival and propagation are threatened. This radical shift in thinking is shown most dramatically by studies of India's sacred monkey, the hanuman langur. In 1965, a naturalist wrote that the long-tailed black and gray langurs were "relaxed" and "nonaggressive." Now, a Harvard researcher has shown that the langur society operates more like the House of Borgia, complete with kidnaping, constant sexual harassment, group battles, abandonment of some wounded young by their mothers, and the regular practice of infanticide.

In her new book. The Langurs of Abu, Harvard Anthropologist Sarah Blaffer Hrdy, 31, portrays langur life as a "soap opera" that revolves around the struggle between the sexes. As in other species, the strongest males compete for control of each troop. What makes the langurs different is that the winner tries to bite to death the young offspring of his predecessor. The mothers resist the infanticide until the struggle looks hopeless, then pragmatically present themselves to the new ruler for copulation.

Why so brutal a society? Hrdy believes that the answer lies in the theory of sociobiology, which holds that each organism is engaged in a one-against-all struggle to get as many of its genes as possible into the next generation. That explains the sexual aggressiveness of langurs?and males of other species; it usually makes evolutionary sense for males to inseminate the maximum number of females. But why infanticide? Hrdy reasons that the grisly practice evolved among the langurs to solve a problem for the new dominant male. Because of the competition of other males, his reign over a harem or troop is usually short, and his genetic drive dictates that he impregnate the females as quickly as possible. As Hrdy explains: "By eliminating infants in the troop that are unlikely to be his own, a usurping male hastens the mother's return to sexual receptivity and reduces the time that will elapse before she bears his offspring."

Hrdy, who spent 1,500 hrs. observing langur behavior around India's Mount Abu from 1971 to 1975, documented the disappearances of 39 infants around the times of new male takeovers; she estimates that only half of all langurs survive infancy. While males shift constantly among groups, females usually spend a lifetime in one troop and cooperate in warding off danger.

When a new male ascends to power, pregnant females use deceit in an attempt to save their unborn young from his later attack: they demonstrate estrus behavior to the new leader, presumably to trick him into thinking the future offspring are his. But once the new male shows that he is determined to kill the infants, the mothers abandon their young. Though they could gang up on the male or refuse to copulate with him after infanticide, Hrdy notes, it is always in their individual self-interest to break ranks and accept him. Reason: their own male offspring will eventually benefit from the infanticidal trait.

Hrdy's portrait of the langurs is a far cry from the traditional view of animals as social creatures that act to ensure group survival. But as Lorenz's work was, it is in tune with its times. In stressing chaotic individualism at the expense of the group. The Langurs of Abu reads like a jungle version of Tom Wolfe's essay on The Me Decade.

edit: more, Dolphins killing their own young. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19980624/ai_n14153294)

Mermaidman
06-20-2007, 12:44 PM
Baby sharks eat their siblings even before they are born! How's that for sibling rivalry.

:Q
:Q
:Q
:Q

Atomic Playboy
06-20-2007, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by: txrandom

Originally posted by: Twista
some female spiders after sexxing i think. (its not an animal though)

Spiders are animals...No, dude, spiders are plants. Duh.

GagHalfrunt
06-20-2007, 01:01 PM
Many reptiles will including a large number of snakes, crocs and gators. Tigers will too.

Vic
06-20-2007, 01:14 PM
There is a branch of psychology study, called psychohistory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory), which studies history from the perspective of the physical and emotional harm which adults routinely inflicted on their children in the ancient and not-so ancient past, and how that harm affected the actions of the children as they in turn became adults themselves.
Basic cliffs, as humanity has risen up from its animal origins and become more conscious and sentient, we have shed many of the horrible self-destructive practices common among the animals, and as such, our own offspring are given a better psychological headstart with each succeeding generation.
The regular ATPN poster, Moonbeam, could have a lot to explain on this subject, provided one could understand what he was saying. :)
Consider though, that infanticide was common and even ritualized among human societies up until just a couple thousand years ago (and even more recently among Native Americans). Child rape was customary practice in Ancient Greece. Following that were practices of abandonment, and then forced conformity, etc. America is still struggling through the "socializing" phase, which is one reason why we have such a huge prison class.

A footnote on this: the most recent National Geo mag had an excellent article on malaria and its impact in Africa today. One passage mentioned how virtual every child in sub-Saharan Africa is infected with malaria at some point in their early childhood, and suffers some form of brain damage as a result. And that, if recent attempts at combating malaria become successful, we could in the next few decades see the very first generation of Africans in history to survive to adulthood without having suffered this damage in childhood. When considering how backwards, violent, and impoverished that Africa is, I bet most people never even think of this.

playstation3
06-20-2007, 01:24 PM
the only species that makes a big deal about it is man.

LS20
06-20-2007, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by: Hannover
The "Jungles" episode of Planet Earth had a very disturbing segment on Chimps. Two groups were having a turf war, the winners killed and ate one of the losers. They were just passing ribs and other parts around, happily munching away. The unique part of this was that they were in an area with an over abundance of food. Cannibalism is usually reserved for times of starvation.


I've seen this one too. I remember what was said in that program -- that while other animals do kill and eat others from its species -- the chimps were the only ones ever observed to DELIBERATELY HUNT DOWN and kill another

Eli
06-20-2007, 01:24 PM
Most rodents will. Hamsters, rabbits, guinea pigs.

Cats... not sure about dogs?...

A great many animals and insects are cannibalistic.

Whoozyerdaddy
06-20-2007, 01:25 PM
Dolphins kill and gang-rape.

They are not always the cute friendly "Flipper" creatures we make them out to be.

Vic
06-20-2007, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by: playstation3
the only species that makes a big deal about it is man.

And that's a good thing, as my earlier post pointed out.



Feral cats, dogs, and wolves kill their own kind as well. Cats for the same reason as lions, the new alpha male will kill all the offspring from the previous alpha. Wolves will kill any newborn pup with obvious genetic abnormalities, i.e. the wrong color, etc.

Kadarin
06-20-2007, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by: Sureshot324
what species other than humans will commit murder and go to war

Define "commit murder" and "go to war".

It is possible to kill someone without having murdered that person.

jdini76
06-20-2007, 01:43 PM
Don't Lions kill the offspring of another Lion if he takes over a pride?

rise
06-20-2007, 01:45 PM
.

waggy
06-20-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
what species other than humans will commit murder and go to war

Define "commit murder" and "go to war".

It is possible to kill someone without having murdered that person.

yeap. ants, wasp and others will "go to war" with others. just go kill them all.