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xtknight
12-31-2008, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by: Exclusive
Well, I still now want to know what's the best for a TN panel 24"; price (preferably best bang for buck).

Samsung 2493HM?
BenQ V2400W?
BenQ G2400WD?

Why did the G2400WD replace V2400W is what I'm curious now? If it did 'replace' it, does that mean, the G2400WD is better overall? Is the V2400W leany towards an angle due to its asymmetric-design? What is the best to get now or should I wait till 2009 releases? I want the best picture quality and performance!

There's no real reason the V2400W is off my list other than that it's out of stock everywhere I look. I think it's discontinued. (Actually, it says in stock at BenQ store but I believe these are just excess units.)

I believe the BenQs are a better deal than the Samsung because of lower scaling lag, better default colors and 1:1 support as I state in my recommendation. It's also cheaper.

xtknight
12-31-2008, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by: jmg
is there an LG monitor below 22" that also has better than 2ms response time?

or another make that's 17/19" that has the same?


i'm looking for a monitor that's good for cs 1.6 in particuliar, as its notoriously hard to find one without buying CRT (because of the refresh rate thingy)

I haven't seen an LCD ever rated below 2 ms g2g on the market. LG's Flatron 2 ms g2g-rated series are the best you will ever get at 17/19" these days. The best of them will reach under 7 ms for all transitions, like any of the other great LCDs out there.

I don't know if you will be able to find a standard aspect ratio 17/19" LG on the market these days, unfortunately. It's probably not worth the trouble to get one second hand, but instead to just choose another TN.

A lot of the Samsungs have color/panel lottery problems. I believe these affected their 17" and 19" models to a certain extent.

You would definitely be looking at a TN panel. It's best to go store shopping in this case as few of the 17" and 19" models are even reviewed anymore, except for widescreen which I assumed you weren't looking for?

The HP LP1965 is a very good choice for general use, although it's not a very fast gaming or TN panel. I'm not even sure that any 17" or 19" 5:4 TN on the market today uses overdrive anymore. The only one I can see that may is the VP950b which I can hardly vouch for.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116120 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116120)

xtknight
12-31-2008, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by: Gatss
It's been a while since I posted but it looks like the deal I got on my Viewsonic VX2435WM may have been too good to be true. It seems to be shorting out every so often. The screen goes black as if its lost power or signal, then if I gently shake it, the signal is reacquired or it just comes right back on. The problem is I can't make it happen by shaking the monitor, it's just random. My thoughts are that the monitor may be getting too hot when I use it all day, but I don't think that should happen.

Anyway, I am at the point where it has happened enough times that I want to see if I can get an RMA and return it to Viewsonic for a replacement. The trouble is I spent a lot of research time on this monitor when it was recommended here. Now there are no Viewsonic monitors in the recommendations. My fear is that this monitor is no longer being produced and they will want to replace it with a new model that I have no information on. I would like a 24" VA panel at the very least. Lower input lag and response time are my next most wanted. I use this monitor primarily for web design and gaming.

If you have any Viewsonic recommendations please let me know.

Thanks

I personally own this model and haven't had this problem with it. I'm sorry that you are experiencing issues with it.

The ViewSonic VX2255wmb and VX2435wm are still good LCDs. I'm not sure many people were a huge fan of the bezel and ever since, there are better choices, like the Samsung T220 and Dell 2408WFP/HP LP2465/LP2475w respectively which offer noticeably performance and better on-screen interfaces.

The main beef I have with ViewSonic is the outdated menus they have on the LCDs, the continually bad overdrive control they have in nearly all their models, and reported DVI problems (at least in the past). (The VX2255wmb doesn't use overdrive so it's exempt from this complaint. It's possible I would re-add it in the future.)

The VX2435 was good but as I saw when I tried it for myself, the menu was quite buggy and the scaling worked reliably only about half the time. I had a very bad experience with the VP930b I owned having ugly dithering and overdrive artifacts, as well as falsely advertised HD 720p support and I even managed to somehow activate the theft deterrent control in it at one point. I'm just not very fond of them so I have not been recommending them lately, especially in light of the better and well-available models that have come on the market.

I can't help but think that your unit was a result of ViewSonic's generally bad QC as well.

I would highly consider the HP LP2475w or Dell 2408WFP.

Exclusive
01-01-2009, 03:21 AM
Hey xt, since you're more active on this thread since you're the OP, what would YOU get?
The V2400W or the G2400WD? Despite the cost! I don't really mind!

And would you actually recommend a S-PVA? (Most preferably the Dell 2408WFP)

LeoM
01-01-2009, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: LeoM
Hi, first time LCD buyer here. I'm coming from an NEC FE791sb Diamondtron CRT, so I'm used to a high quality picture, suitable at least for web photo work. I need to stay under $500.

I am looking at two widescreen units -- the LG L227WTG and the NEC 20WMGX2. I can get the LG new of course, and the NEC is available as a factory refurb. Both have gotten high praise in this thread but I haven't seen a direct comparison between the two, subjective or otherwise. Any comparative info appreciated.

I have owned both and I can say the NEC is still better for photo work because of better screen stability (viewing angle). That's the clear choice here IMO. (The LG of course is great for movies and games, though, but the NEC is too.)


[/quote]

xtknight, thought you might enjoy a follow up story, don't know if you recall but I did acquire a 20WMGX2 on your advice, and I still marvel every time I turn it on.

But ever since I returned the LG227 to Best Buy, I'd been missing it a little bit, because the 22" screen, at the same resolution, is just bigger, easier to read. One reason the NEC looks so good is from having 1680x1050 pixels crammed into 20 inches. Great for photos, not so great for text.

So, I went and bought the LG227. Now they are side by side, and I get the benefits of both. :)

:sun: :beer: Thanks again, you saved me a heap of time.

imported_jmg
01-01-2009, 07:40 AM
thanks xtknight!

i know this in un-related, but does anyone know if theirs really a thin shadow that appears over the top of the Viewsonic G90fb CRTs screen?

NTB
01-01-2009, 10:41 AM
How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode :)

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

ibex333
01-01-2009, 12:16 PM
Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

brencat
01-02-2009, 02:40 AM
Thx xt and others for your advice -- my cousin loved the LG L227WTG I helped buy him for Xmas. Now I'm going to use some of my holiday cash for myself. Although I was tempted to buy a second monitor, I decided at the last minute that 22" was just a bit too small and that I'd personally rather have a 24".

That leaves me with the BenQ G2400WD which I've never seen as my likely choice. However, I was in Circuit City and Best Buy today and I saw a 24" LG W2452T-TF which also looked very very nice. Although it's not a glossy screen, the colors seemed rich and accurate, and the viewing angles were quite good -- similar to the 22" LG. It even had a similar (the same?) OSD. To my eyes, it was better than anything Samsung had in 24" TN, including both the 2493HM and T240.

From some brief digging, this monitor has been out for at least 6 mos but there's not a lot of discussion or reviews out that I can find, even here.

xt, 10e, or anyone else who may have seen both ... would you give me your opinion of how the LG W2452T-TF compares with the BenQ G2400WD, since they are similarly priced? It will be 80% for gaming, 20% for office work, thanks.

10e
01-02-2009, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by: ibex333
Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

The BenQ E2200HD is a 22" with 1:1 pixel mapping and 1920x1080 resolution (16:9). It's not explicitly stated in the manual or OSD, but it does do it. It also has low input lag. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

NCIXUS also has the E2400HD for under $285.00, but shipping may put it over $300.00. it's a 1920x1080/16:9 monitor 24". This also has 1:1 pixel mapping. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

If you are having trouble finding the BenQ, and wish to have 1:1 pixel mapping on a PC, the Samsung 2343BW/BWX will do it with PC only. It has a strange 2048x1152 resolution, but it seems pretty good too. Only DVI and VGA though.

you2
01-02-2009, 11:25 AM
I just went through this process. I ended up with the hp l2065 (see my post on previous page). I'm not in love with it but it is ips (l complaint is very bright and large amount of bleed).

The options seem to be dell, hp, viewsonic and nec (various models). Rumor is the newest dells and hp are pva. The hp I obtained had a sep 2008 man. date and is IPS (purchased through amazon). If I had seen the dell 20inch on sale I would probably have gone with it. nec and viewsonic are more expensive but they have one model below $500 if you can find it.

Anyways I would go with either the dell or hp. Both will be around $420 (when I placed my order the dell was $430 shipped and the hp $400 shipped but prices flux and dell does have a number of options to lower the price (sales, coupons, ...).

I do not know if my HP is typical with regards to the backlight issue. If it is then I would recommend you avoid it (my old dell was not prefect but reasonable and the dell I use at work (one of the 24 inch models) is fine). I'm not that picky - i.e, I do not turn off the lights and try to spot the smallest amount of uneven lighting - in this case the hp was radically poor. I was able to make it marginally acceptable by adjusting the tension on the frame.

This will probably be my last hp product.


Originally posted by: gammaray
Could i get 2 recommendations for 20" S-IPS panels max 500$ thank you.

ibex333
01-02-2009, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by: 10e
Originally posted by: ibex333
Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

The BenQ E2200HD is a 22" with 1:1 pixel mapping and 1920x1080 resolution (16:9). It's not explicitly stated in the manual or OSD, but it does do it. It also has low input lag. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

NCIXUS also has the E2400HD for under $285.00, but shipping may put it over $300.00. it's a 1920x1080/16:9 monitor 24". This also has 1:1 pixel mapping. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

If you are having trouble finding the BenQ, and wish to have 1:1 pixel mapping on a PC, the Samsung 2343BW/BWX will do it with PC only. It has a strange 2048x1152 resolution, but it seems pretty good too. Only DVI and VGA though.

Quoted from Anandtech's review here: http://www.anandtech.com/displ...howdoc.aspx?i=3449&p=3 (http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3449&p=3)

"The E2200HD has two aspect ratio options, Full and Aspect. "Full" is supposed to stretch whatever resolution you're running to fill the whole screen. "Aspect" should maintain the aspect ratio of whatever resolution you're using and fill as much of the screen as possible, leaving you with black bars on the top/bottom or left/right sides."

Are you sure this monitor has 1:1? From the review it doesn't look like it. I wanted to go for the 24" since the price difference is negligible, but according to the same review, the E2400HD is significantly worse than the E2200HD when it comes to non-native resolutions.

Also, I'd like to know how important is the 1080p support on PC monitors? I don't have any game consoles, but I figured this might be important for the future if they start making games specifically for these resolutions. Well, that and this monitor can double as a small TV hooked up to my cable box through HDMI. If there aren't many reasons to get a 1080p monitor as far as PC usage goes, I'm wondering if I should just get a 16:10 monitor instead...

aceO07
01-02-2009, 01:14 PM
I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645. :(

you2
01-02-2009, 01:45 PM
Please describe the vertical bar on your 2001fp (I just replaced my 2001fp because the left edge developed a vertical bar 1/8 of the screen in width). I'm curious if this is a common failure for that monitor (mine was 4 years old).


Originally posted by: aceO07
I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645. :(

aceO07
01-02-2009, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by: you2
Please describe the vertical bar on your 2001fp (I just replaced my 2001fp because the left edge developed a vertical bar 1/8 of the screen in width). I'm curious if this is a common failure for that monitor (mine was 4 years old).


I think our monitors must have been sibling. Mine is 4 years in a few days, I think.

It's on the left side, maybe 1" to 1.5" thick. Consisting of vertical stripes (1pixel wide) going down, every other other pixel. At first, it didn't show up until 30minutes into being used. Now it just shows immediately. It started about 4-5 months ago. I just haven't had time to replace it. Now it's much worse. From the bar to the middle of the screen, the video feeds seems to be messed up too. :P

This is a common issue. I've seen it mentioned on the DELL monitor forums too.

you2
01-02-2009, 04:25 PM
bleh. I wonder what exactly is failing. At first I thought it might be the video ram but if this is common and always the left side then perhaps it is some other part. Hum. bleh. The middle was fine - but the bar was too wide to ignore (for games). Oh well. I was never happy with that monitor (didn't have the rich saturation my sister's had).

aceO07
01-02-2009, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by: you2
bleh. I wonder what exactly is failing. At first I thought it might be the video ram but if this is common and always the left side then perhaps it is some other part. Hum. bleh. The middle was fine - but the bar was too wide to ignore (for games). Oh well. I was never happy with that monitor (didn't have the rich saturation my sister's had).

I read on some forum, that the 2001fp had 2 versions. The earlier ones had IPS and the later ones used PVA. Maybe your sister has the IPS version.

I know that my 2001fp doesn't really compare to my Thinkpad, which has IPS panel.

Diocles
01-03-2009, 05:00 PM
Question #1: What do you do against 3:2 pulldown (that is, when one frame of the 24 fps movie apears for 2, and the next one for 3 refreshes on your 60Hz display, and this causes great judder) when you're watching movies on your LCD monitor?

Problem #2: Until now, I've had a 19'' which supported 75Hz natively and everything was just fine. But then I bought a HP 2475W, which can't do 75Hz but max 60Hz, which was _terrible_. Then I found out it can actually do 50Hz natively, which made things a lot better, but still not perfect as most movies are 24 fps, so about 2 frames a second are displayed 20ms longer (3 refreshes instead of 2).

I've heard of 120Hz TV that should solve this problem, but I don't need a LCD TV, because I sit close to the monitor.

Question #2: But I still require something with good colors, low input lag, 72/75Hz support and >24'' size (may be either TN, IPS, VA). Does such a monitor exist?

xtknight
01-03-2009, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by: gammaray
Could i get 2 recommendations for 20" S-IPS panels max 500$ thank you.

HP LP2065 or Dell 2007FP. Unfortunately, both of these are only S-IPS about half of the time, perhaps more likely with the LP2065. I know no other 20" S-IPS panels at or below that price point.

Originally posted by: Goone40
XTKnigh,
Do you know if planar 2611 will have hdmi soon really want to buy their 26 inches but no hdmi output or at least another dvi connection, do you have any recommendation IPS panel please, also went and look at the apple 30 inch monitor it is gorous, also does the NEC monitor 2690 equivalent to the picture of apple I know nec have high input lag for game.
thanks

I don't think Planar will be coming out with another IPS any time soon. None of the 26" IPS panels have an HDMI input. I believe the Planar and DoubleSight are outsourced from a common manufacturer which has decided not to add HDMI.

The NEC LCD2690WUXi may be laggier than the Apple (I'm not sure at all how much lag the Cinema 30" has). However, its image will equal or surpass that of the Apple Cinema Display as it has the ability to fine-tune each of its brightness levels with 14-bit precision. To fully exploit this capability you must buy the SpectraView hardware calibration/interface kit with it.

xtknight
01-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by: Exclusive
Hey xt, since you're more active on this thread since you're the OP, what would YOU get?
The V2400W or the G2400WD? Despite the cost! I don't really mind!

And would you actually recommend a S-PVA? (Most preferably the Dell 2408WFP)

If I were to buy a 24" now it would be the LP2475w. For some reason failing that, the Dell 2408WFP is next on *my* list. (Maybe the LCD2490WUXi if the hypothetical customer wished to spend his money that way.)

Originally posted by: LeoM
xtknight, thought you might enjoy a follow up story, don't know if you recall but I did acquire a 20WMGX2 on your advice, and I still marvel every time I turn it on.

But ever since I returned the LG227 to Best Buy, I'd been missing it a little bit, because the 22" screen, at the same resolution, is just bigger, easier to read. One reason the NEC looks so good is from having 1680x1050 pixels crammed into 20 inches. Great for photos, not so great for text.

So, I went and bought the LG227. Now they are side by side, and I get the benefits of both. :)

:sun: :beer: Thanks again, you saved me a heap of time.

Glad to hear. I love both of those LCDs as well.[/quote]

And I'm never throwing out my 20WMGX2 either. :)

Originally posted by: NTB
How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode :)

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

I'm not sure; I've never used a glossy display in an office environment. I assume the standard office is just fluorescent-lit from the ceiling. It really depends on a lot of things too like how picky you are. Personally I think I'd do fine in that environment with a glossy panel.

The HP w2408h is the obvious 24" glossy equivalent to what you have.

If your built-in Intel graphics provide a DVI port, then probably. If it only provides a VGA port, then probably not.

xtknight
01-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by: brencat
Thx xt and others for your advice -- my cousin loved the LG L227WTG I helped buy him for Xmas. Now I'm going to use some of my holiday cash for myself. Although I was tempted to buy a second monitor, I decided at the last minute that 22" was just a bit too small and that I'd personally rather have a 24".

That leaves me with the BenQ G2400WD which I've never seen as my likely choice. However, I was in Circuit City and Best Buy today and I saw a 24" LG W2452T-TF which also looked very very nice. Although it's not a glossy screen, the colors seemed rich and accurate, and the viewing angles were quite good -- similar to the 22" LG. It even had a similar (the same?) OSD. To my eyes, it was better than anything Samsung had in 24" TN, including both the 2493HM and T240.

From some brief digging, this monitor has been out for at least 6 mos but there's not a lot of discussion or reviews out that I can find, even here.

xt, 10e, or anyone else who may have seen both ... would you give me your opinion of how the LG W2452T-TF compares with the BenQ G2400WD, since they are similarly priced? It will be 80% for gaming, 20% for office work, thanks.

I too wish I knew more about this LG that's common in brick and mortar stores. I'll see if I can ever get a look at it while I'm near a Best Buy that actually has newer monitors.

I'd almost go for the BenQ sight unseen, though. I'm not sure there'd be that much difference. If you wanted to you could get a calibrator to get the most out of the TN panel, although it's probably not worth it for your purposes.

If it helps at all, there's a comprehensive review of the T240 here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ung-topaz_9.html#sect0 (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-topaz_9.html#sect0)

...the only valuable info I could find pertinent to this discussion.

xtknight
01-03-2009, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by: darkrisen2003
how are the LG 24 inch monitors? I have noticed that most of them do not have an HD input.

Anything specific?

HD (high definition) has several manifestations, like component, DVI, VGA, HDMI typically.

xtknight
01-03-2009, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by: aceO07
I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645. :(

Not sure if you'll be able to get it cheaper than that. There's HP.com ... http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...70-444767-3648442.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648442.html)

Not sure how that NY tax works? I recall Newegg sending people letters saying the tax was no longer charged or something like that? Maybe that was only Newegg?

xtknight
01-03-2009, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by: Diocles
Question #1: What do you do against 3:2 pulldown (that is, when one frame of the 24 fps movie apears for 2, and the next one for 3 refreshes on your 60Hz display, and this causes great judder) when you're watching movies on your LCD monitor?

Problem #2: Until now, I've had a 19'' which supported 75Hz natively and everything was just fine. But then I bought a HP 2475W, which can't do 75Hz but max 60Hz, which was _terrible_. Then I found out it can actually do 50Hz natively, which made things a lot better, but still not perfect as most movies are 24 fps, so about 2 frames a second are displayed 20ms longer (3 refreshes instead of 2).

That's the player's or encoder's responsibility. So maybe something like Media Player Classic Home Cinema will do it, or some of the more popular DVD software. Perhaps with some ffdshow/AviSynth stuff. I'm not too familiar with how all that stuff works together.

I thought when DVDs were encoded for home use they were set to be seen on a 60 Hz TV (NTSC) anyway so I'm not sure where this 24fps really comes in besides at the production level. Edit: or player level

And I don't believe the input lag is cumulative. If each frame was that much laggier we'd have serious issues. But, the frame actually being shown on the monitor (assuming n is the current frame) would be n-2 assuming the display had 2 frames of lag. Therefore, the speed of update isn't really different, only the offset. It's just buffering a couple for frame processing.

I've heard of 120Hz TV that should solve this problem, but I don't need a LCD TV, because I sit close to the monitor.

Question #2: But I still require something with good colors, low input lag, 72/75Hz support and >24'' size (may be either TN, IPS, VA). Does such a monitor exist?

My question, mostly for my knowledge, is what kind of media are you playing that is 24fps? I think the player or encoder should be doing this. Apparently "soft telecine" is when the player does it, and "hard telecine" is when the encoder does it.

The reason I ask is, you'll be doomed finding a monitor over 22" that does a true 75 Hz.

brencat
01-03-2009, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: brencat
xt, 10e, or anyone else who may have seen both ... would you give me your opinion of how the LG W2452T-TF compares with the BenQ G2400WD, since they are similarly priced? It will be 80% for gaming, 20% for office work, thanks.

I too wish I knew more about this LG that's common in brick and mortar stores. I'll see if I can ever get a look at it while I'm near a Best Buy that actually has newer monitors.

I'd almost go for the BenQ sight unseen, though. I'm not sure there'd be that much difference. If you wanted to you could get a calibrator to get the most out of the TN panel, although it's probably not worth it for your purposes.

If it helps at all, there's a comprehensive review of the T240 here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ung-topaz_9.html#sect0 (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-topaz_9.html#sect0)

...the only valuable info I could find pertinent to this discussion.
Thanks xt. FYI, I have just ordered the BenQ V2400W from their online store. They are running a special and with an additional 10% code, I got it for $323 shipped. Seems like a great deal considering the LG I was talking to you above about was $400 in Best Buy (+tax). Will let you know my impressions when it arrives! Can't fricken wait...wooooooot!

Gautama2
01-03-2009, 11:13 PM
I'm at a crossroads. I'm looking to buy a new 22" monitor. Black levels, backlight bleeding, color reporoduction, and ghosting are all important issues to me. I'm willing to go up to $300, but I've found these three deals:

Dell Ultrasharp 2208WFP for $202 with free shipping, there is a $50 off Dell monitors coupon floating around, too.
http://accessories.us.dell.com...bsd&cs=04&sku=320-6107 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-6107)

ViewSonic VX2255wmb for $230 + $25 shipping
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O...t75910-20&linkCode=asn (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OLG74I?smid=A9B09ZK9BZJQ6&tag=dealt75910-20&linkCode=asn)

HP W2207H for $250 with free shipping
http://www.amazon.com/W2207H-2...3U6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce (http://www.amazon.com/W2207H-22-inch-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor/dp/B00139S3U6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce)


I'm learning towards the HP right now, but which one is the best? And is it worth it over the cheap Dell?

brencat
01-03-2009, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by: Gautama2
I'm at a crossroads. I'm looking to buy a new 22" monitor. Black levels, backlight bleeding, color reporoduction, and ghosting are all important issues to me. I'm willing to go up to $300

I'm learning towards the HP right now, but which one is the best? And is it worth it over the cheap Dell?
I saw that hp 2207 recently for the first time and it certainly is a nice product if you like glossy screens and comes with a nice stand. However, it is outclassed in my opinion by the LG L227WTG (also a glossy screen, though not as overbearing like with the hp) for just a few dollars more:

LG L227WTG -- $280 shipped @ Frys.com (http://shop2.frys.com/product/5555890?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)

Best Buy also sold this for $249 on sale right before Xmas and it will probably go on sale again very soon if I had to bet. The LG is also the #1 pick in the OP above for Hardcore gaming. If the LG wasn't around, the hp would be my second choice however.

Edit: Almost forgot...don't know if you're considering a 22" 1080p but if you are, the BenQ E2200HD is supposed to be good. Also, Asus is making some nice stuff -- recently saw an Asus VH226H at Best Buy and it was beautiful. FYI, I'm not a Samsung fan at all -- I've seen much of their 22" and 24" TN-based line, and I'm not impressed. Ditto for Acer.

Gautama2
01-03-2009, 11:47 PM
That LG looks really really nice. I'll drive around tomorrow and see if I can see it in person.

M0RPH
01-04-2009, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by: brencat

I saw that hp 2207 recently for the first time and it certainly is a nice product if you like glossy screens and comes with a nice stand. However, it is outclassed in my opinion by the LG L227WTG (also a glossy screen, though not as overbearing like with the hp) for just a few dollars more:

LG L227WTG -- $280 shipped @ Frys.com (http://shop2.frys.com/product/5555890?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)


It says anti-glare screen treatment in the link you gave.

brencat
01-04-2009, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by: M0RPH
Originally posted by: brencat

I saw that hp 2207 recently for the first time and it certainly is a nice product if you like glossy screens and comes with a nice stand. However, it is outclassed in my opinion by the LG L227WTG (also a glossy screen, though not as overbearing like with the hp) for just a few dollars more:

LG L227WTG -- $280 shipped @ Frys.com (http://shop2.frys.com/product/5555890?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)


It says anti-glare screen treatment in the link you gave.

Yes. And it says that at Best Buy's website as well. Nevertheless, it is a glossy screen -- just not quite as glossy as the hp 2207h/2408h.

NTB
01-04-2009, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: NTB
How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode :)

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

I'm not sure; I've never used a glossy display in an office environment. I assume the standard office is just fluorescent-lit from the ceiling. It really depends on a lot of things too like how picky you are. Personally I think I'd do fine in that environment with a glossy panel.

The HP w2408h is the obvious 24" glossy equivalent to what you have.

If your built-in Intel graphics provide a DVI port, then probably. If it only provides a VGA port, then probably not.

Boo on the graphics :( I checked this week, and my work PC only has VGA output. As for the monitor, I *was* looking at the 2408h until I found the 2207. The higher resolution in the 24" model would have been nice, but the price was a bit steep - I only paid ~$250 for the 22", while most places are asking $400+ for the 24".

Ingenuitor
01-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Oops double post, sorry...

Ingenuitor
01-04-2009, 11:55 AM
Hello all I'm looking for three higher end monitors that are no more than 20". My mounting apparatus will only accept three 20" or two 26". http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st....rtechcorp_2036_2988345 (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/airtechcorp_2036_2988345) I think I have decided to go with three bringing the total to 60" of monitors. This will be plenty to look at I think. Plus it will be a more well balanced in function and looks as well.

What would you recommend for a fulltime graphic designer that is also a software programmer and a part time photographer? I need to buy three monitors and the ideal in my mind would be three 20" that can be rotated easily for reviewing very long coded documents of programming and high resolution portrait images in CS4, video and web pages.

All this will be mounted on a tri monitor mount and attached to an ergonomic pneumatic desk unit. I assume nor more than $1000 tops each for the panels but would like to pay less if I can. From what I read NEC are the best way to go, but is there better or similar for less money. Acer looks nice, but not 100% sure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009126 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009126)

Here is a whole mess of 20's i found on New Egg http://www.newegg.com/Product/...&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000190020%201309821318&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS)

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

aceO07
01-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: aceO07
I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645. :(

Not sure if you'll be able to get it cheaper than that. There's HP.com ... http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...70-444767-3648442.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648442.html)

Not sure how that NY tax works? I recall Newegg sending people letters saying the tax was no longer charged or something like that? Maybe that was only Newegg?

The cheapest I've found is around $590 online with free shipping and no tax. Unfortunately I've never ordered from that vendor before.

Amazon and HP(I think) will charge NY tax (8.375%) on purchases. I'm leaning towards Amazon since I like their 2 day shipping and their return policy is nice. Though the final price will be around $645. I'm sure hp.com will be much more since it's $620 and add tax and shipping.

paperfist
01-04-2009, 06:06 PM
Does anyone own a Dell SP2309W 23" LCD (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641) or consider it a gaming LCD?

Thanks :)

Diocles
01-04-2009, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Diocles
Question #1: What do you do against 3:2 pulldown (that is, when one frame of the 24 fps movie apears for 2, and the next one for 3 refreshes on your 60Hz display, and this causes great judder) when you're watching movies on your LCD monitor?

Problem #2: Until now, I've had a 19'' which supported 75Hz natively and everything was just fine. But then I bought a HP 2475W, which can't do 75Hz but max 60Hz, which was _terrible_. Then I found out it can actually do 50Hz natively, which made things a lot better, but still not perfect as most movies are 24 fps, so about 2 frames a second are displayed 20ms longer (3 refreshes instead of 2).

That's the player's or encoder's responsibility. So maybe something like Media Player Classic Home Cinema will do it, or some of the more popular DVD software. Perhaps with some ffdshow/AviSynth stuff. I'm not too familiar with how all that stuff works together.

I thought when DVDs were encoded for home use they were set to be seen on a 60 Hz TV (NTSC) anyway so I'm not sure where this 24fps really comes in besides at the production level. Edit: or player level

And I don't believe the input lag is cumulative. If each frame was that much laggier we'd have serious issues. But, the frame actually being shown on the monitor (assuming n is the current frame) would be n-2 assuming the display had 2 frames of lag. Therefore, the speed of update isn't really different, only the offset. It's just buffering a couple for frame processing.

I've heard of 120Hz TV that should solve this problem, but I don't need a LCD TV, because I sit close to the monitor.

Question #2: But I still require something with good colors, low input lag, 72/75Hz support and >24'' size (may be either TN, IPS, VA). Does such a monitor exist?

My question, mostly for my knowledge, is what kind of media are you playing that is 24fps? I think the player or encoder should be doing this. Apparently "soft telecine" is when the player does it, and "hard telecine" is when the encoder does it.

The reason I ask is, you'll be doomed finding a monitor over 22" that does a true 75 Hz.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I'll try to do my best this time. Most (99%) of movies are encoded at 24 or 25fps, or something very close to these. On the other hand, my new HP 2475W supports only 60Hz natively. So somewhere, a 3:2 pulldown must take place. If the video source is a PC, then the media player program has to do this (it eats 24fps input but it can draw only to a 60Hz output).

However, I find the effect (the judder) of the 3:2 pulldown so annoying, that I simply can't watch movies on the new display. (The old 19'' 75Hz is just fine...)

So one solution would be the change the display to a 75Hz, but, as I reckoned and you reinforced this information, 75Hz display above 22'' is nonexistent.

The only other possible solution is to fix the signal coming from the PC, and this the topic I'm looking for information about. I've tried many media players (including MPC HC), but they all produce the same artifacts. I can't believe that the other at least 2 billion PC users are not annoyed to the bones by this, so there must be some simple solution I don't know of. Or is it just me who's way to sensitive for this kind of stuff?

Edit:

Video to illustrate judder: On youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfvMRK5r7W0)
Original video, 24 fps @ 75Hz: Photograph (3.2sec exposure time) (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7554/img0853dj5.jpg) (Notice the 3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:4 pulldown, which is quite tolerable.)
Original video, 24 fps @ 60Hz: Photograph (3.2sec exposure time) (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1953/img0849si7.jpg) (Notice the 3:2 pulldown, which is totally unacceptable.)

Original video and photos are also available at: here (http://users.atw.hu/clayman/index.php?dir=pulldown/)

10e
01-04-2009, 09:24 PM
1:1 pixel mapping and PC aspect ratio scaling are two different things.

If I set my ATI video card to "centred timings" or my nVidia card to "do not scale" in their respective control panels, the monitor will give me 1:1 pixel mapped display. 1280x720, 1440x900, 1680x1050 etc... all show in the middle of the screen at the native resolution with black bars around them. So a 1680x1050 resolution will have 15 pixel black bars top and bottom (1080-1050/2) and 120 pixel black bars (1920-1680/2) left and right.

I think what Jarred did in his review is set the video card to "use display's built in scaling" (in nVidia) or "GPU Scaling" to OFF in ATI CCC and the monitor gave back all sorts of weird images. This I can also agree happened to me with both an ATI 4870 and nVidia 8600GTS and the E2200HD and E2400HD. I unfortunately didn't see how Jarred set up his PC video settings, so I can only theorize.

I generally advise people to let the video card do the scaling. It results in no performance penalty or increase of input lag. This is preferable. You get full resolution with the performance of lower resolutions. This should work with the G80 8800GTS you have, as I have the same card and it works very well at scaling up resolutions to full or aspect on its own.

I have tested both E2400HD and E2200HD with an HDMI cable box as well in 720p and 1080i and both showed the image properly and played sound through their tinny little speakers. This was also the case with PS3 and Xbox 360 over HDMI, and Xbox 360 over VGA at 1920x1080 resolution. The additional advantage these monitors have is the ability to enable "overscan" which will cut off 1% of the screen on all sides to eliminate any signal noise from cable/digital set top broadcasts with HDMI or disable it for 100% 1080p 1:1 pixel mapped broadcasts.

1080p support for PC monitors is not necessarily important, but most games over the past couple of years support this resolution because they will use any resolution the video card will display on a monitor/screen. I used a 1080p TV as a monitor for most of 2007 over DVI to HDMI and most recent games allowed me to select 1080p resolution including Oblivion, Bioshock, Crysis, etc... as well as lower resolutions like 1680x1050, 1440x900, or even 1776x1000.

To be honest, for PC only, I'd still recommend a 24" 1920x1200 monitor if you have the budget for it. There are still a number of them that can be used very well with consoles or cable boxes too.

Originally posted by: ibex333
Originally posted by: 10e
Originally posted by: ibex333
Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

The BenQ E2200HD is a 22" with 1:1 pixel mapping and 1920x1080 resolution (16:9). It's not explicitly stated in the manual or OSD, but it does do it. It also has low input lag. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

NCIXUS also has the E2400HD for under $285.00, but shipping may put it over $300.00. it's a 1920x1080/16:9 monitor 24". This also has 1:1 pixel mapping. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

If you are having trouble finding the BenQ, and wish to have 1:1 pixel mapping on a PC, the Samsung 2343BW/BWX will do it with PC only. It has a strange 2048x1152 resolution, but it seems pretty good too. Only DVI and VGA though.

Quoted from Anandtech's review here: http://www.anandtech.com/displ...howdoc.aspx?i=3449&p=3 (http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3449&p=3)

"The E2200HD has two aspect ratio options, Full and Aspect. "Full" is supposed to stretch whatever resolution you're running to fill the whole screen. "Aspect" should maintain the aspect ratio of whatever resolution you're using and fill as much of the screen as possible, leaving you with black bars on the top/bottom or left/right sides."

Are you sure this monitor has 1:1? From the review it doesn't look like it. I wanted to go for the 24" since the price difference is negligible, but according to the same review, the E2400HD is significantly worse than the E2200HD when it comes to non-native resolutions.

Also, I'd like to know how important is the 1080p support on PC monitors? I don't have any game consoles, but I figured this might be important for the future if they start making games specifically for these resolutions. Well, that and this monitor can double as a small TV hooked up to my cable box through HDMI. If there aren't many reasons to get a 1080p monitor as far as PC usage goes, I'm wondering if I should just get a 16:10 monitor instead...

10e
01-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Maybe this would interest you:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...acer-b223w-part19.html (http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2008/review-acer-b223w-part19.html)

It's the Acer B223W that apparently handles 50hz quite nicely. Unfortunately 48hz causes a non-defeatable "notification" message rendering it virtually useless. It is a TN monitor, so visually it will not be nearly as nice as the HP. You may want to read the whole review to see what they think.

You may find a solution, but it will likely not be over DVI. A user on another forum (Hardforum.com) pushed his LG L227WTG-PF monitor to 84hz over VGA, so if you are able to put up with slightly blurrier image over analog that is another option. Unfortunately the HP does not have VGA, so you will not be able to get this going on your specific screen with analog, as there is no way component will do it. You will be relegated to using VGA.

There are some 120hz monitors coming which may also do this better. Viewsonic has one that I know of that is dual-link DVI and 1680x1050 resolution, so maybe that will be an option.

Good luck.

Originally posted by: Diocles


Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I'll try to do my best this time. Most (99%) of movies are encoded at 24 or 25fps, or something very close to these. On the other hand, my new HP 2475W supports only 60Hz natively. So somewhere, a 3:2 pulldown must take place. If the video source is a PC, then the media player program has to do this (it eats 24fps input but it can draw only to a 60Hz output).

However, I find the effect (the judder) of the 3:2 pulldown so annoying, that I simply can't watch movies on the new display. (The old 19'' 75Hz is just fine...)

So one solution would be the change the display to a 75Hz, but, as I reckoned and you reinforced this information, 75Hz display above 22'' is nonexistent.

The only other possible solution is to fix the signal coming from the PC, and this the topic I'm looking for information about. I've tried many media players (including MPC HC), but they all produce the same artifacts. I can't believe that the other at least 2 billion PC users are not annoyed to the bones by this, so there must be some simple solution I don't know of. Or is it just me who's way to sensitive for this kind of stuff?

Edit:

Video to illustrate judder: On youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfvMRK5r7W0)
Original video, 24 fps @ 75Hz: Photograph (3.2sec exposure time) (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7554/img0853dj5.jpg) (Notice the 3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:4 pulldown, which is quite tolerable.)
Original video, 24 fps @ 60Hz: Photograph (3.2sec exposure time) (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1953/img0849si7.jpg) (Notice the 3:2 pulldown, which is totally unacceptable.)

Original video and photos are also available at: here (http://users.atw.hu/clayman/index.php?dir=pulldown/)

Ingenuitor
01-05-2009, 12:48 AM
Can anyone help in selecting three 20" monitors. With quality being a number one concern. Thank you.

Diocles
01-05-2009, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by: 10e
Maybe this would interest you:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...acer-b223w-part19.html (http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2008/review-acer-b223w-part19.html)

It's the Acer B223W that apparently handles 50hz quite nicely. Unfortunately 48hz causes a non-defeatable "notification" message rendering it virtually useless. It is a TN monitor, so visually it will not be nearly as nice as the HP. You may want to read the whole review to see what they think.

You may find a solution, but it will likely not be over DVI. A user on another forum (Hardforum.com) pushed his LG L227WTG-PF monitor to 84hz over VGA, so if you are able to put up with slightly blurrier image over analog that is another option. Unfortunately the HP does not have VGA, so you will not be able to get this going on your specific screen with analog, as there is no way component will do it. You will be relegated to using VGA.

There are some 120hz monitors coming which may also do this better. Viewsonic has one that I know of that is dual-link DVI and 1680x1050 resolution, so maybe that will be an option.

Good luck.



Thanks for the reply.

Actually, the HP supports both VGA and native 50 Hz (over DVI). So I could watch 25fps movies without judder, if 25 fps movies were not less than 5% of all. 24 fps movies still suffer from something like 2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown, which is nearly as bad. I'll try 48 Hz over VGA, and keep an eye out for the 120Hz displays though.

weh
01-05-2009, 07:31 AM
Ingenuitor,

Check out the HP LP2065. It is a very high quality H-IPS panel (best for photo and sRGB work) and it is very reasonable in price.

xtknight
01-05-2009, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by: M0RPH
Originally posted by: brencat

I saw that hp 2207 recently for the first time and it certainly is a nice product if you like glossy screens and comes with a nice stand. However, it is outclassed in my opinion by the LG L227WTG (also a glossy screen, though not as overbearing like with the hp) for just a few dollars more:

LG L227WTG -- $280 shipped @ Frys.com (http://shop2.frys.com/product/5555890?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)


It says anti-glare screen treatment in the link you gave.

Yeah, this is incorrect. It should say "anti-reflective screen treatment". I think it's Engrish.

To make matters even worse, my "L227WTG" has a sticker that just says "glare" on it.

xtknight
01-05-2009, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by: Diocles
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Diocles
Question #1: What do you do against 3:2 pulldown (that is, when one frame of the 24 fps movie apears for 2, and the next one for 3 refreshes on your 60Hz display, and this causes great judder) when you're watching movies on your LCD monitor?

Problem #2: Until now, I've had a 19'' which supported 75Hz natively and everything was just fine. But then I bought a HP 2475W, which can't do 75Hz but max 60Hz, which was _terrible_. Then I found out it can actually do 50Hz natively, which made things a lot better, but still not perfect as most movies are 24 fps, so about 2 frames a second are displayed 20ms longer (3 refreshes instead of 2).

That's the player's or encoder's responsibility. So maybe something like Media Player Classic Home Cinema will do it, or some of the more popular DVD software. Perhaps with some ffdshow/AviSynth stuff. I'm not too familiar with how all that stuff works together.

I thought when DVDs were encoded for home use they were set to be seen on a 60 Hz TV (NTSC) anyway so I'm not sure where this 24fps really comes in besides at the production level. Edit: or player level

And I don't believe the input lag is cumulative. If each frame was that much laggier we'd have serious issues. But, the frame actually being shown on the monitor (assuming n is the current frame) would be n-2 assuming the display had 2 frames of lag. Therefore, the speed of update isn't really different, only the offset. It's just buffering a couple for frame processing.

I've heard of 120Hz TV that should solve this problem, but I don't need a LCD TV, because I sit close to the monitor.

Question #2: But I still require something with good colors, low input lag, 72/75Hz support and >24'' size (may be either TN, IPS, VA). Does such a monitor exist?

My question, mostly for my knowledge, is what kind of media are you playing that is 24fps? I think the player or encoder should be doing this. Apparently "soft telecine" is when the player does it, and "hard telecine" is when the encoder does it.

The reason I ask is, you'll be doomed finding a monitor over 22" that does a true 75 Hz.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I'll try to do my best this time. Most (99%) of movies are encoded at 24 or 25fps, or something very close to these. On the other hand, my new HP 2475W supports only 60Hz natively. So somewhere, a 3:2 pulldown must take place. If the video source is a PC, then the media player program has to do this (it eats 24fps input but it can draw only to a 60Hz output).

However, I find the effect (the judder) of the 3:2 pulldown so annoying, that I simply can't watch movies on the new display. (The old 19'' 75Hz is just fine...)

So one solution would be the change the display to a 75Hz, but, as I reckoned and you reinforced this information, 75Hz display above 22'' is nonexistent.

The only other possible solution is to fix the signal coming from the PC, and this the topic I'm looking for information about. I've tried many media players (including MPC HC), but they all produce the same artifacts. I can't believe that the other at least 2 billion PC users are not annoyed to the bones by this, so there must be some simple solution I don't know of. Or is it just me who's way to sensitive for this kind of stuff?

Edit:

Video to illustrate judder: On youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfvMRK5r7W0)
Original video, 24 fps @ 75Hz: Photograph (3.2sec exposure time) (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7554/img0853dj5.jpg) (Notice the 3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:4 pulldown, which is quite tolerable.)
Original video, 24 fps @ 60Hz: Photograph (3.2sec exposure time) (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1953/img0849si7.jpg) (Notice the 3:2 pulldown, which is totally unacceptable.)

Original video and photos are also available at: here (http://users.atw.hu/clayman/index.php?dir=pulldown/)




Maybe this will interest you. A 480 Hz display, which as far as I can tell, operates natively at 240 Hz: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2337675,00.asp

Sadly few of these advances are coming to monitors.

I'll have to check out that judder stuff in a bit. I think I've seen the judder you're talking about in theaters.

ZetaEpyon
01-05-2009, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by: paperfist
Does anyone own a Dell SP2309W 23" LCD (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641) or consider it a gaming LCD?

Thanks :)

This LCD also caught my eye recently. Given the cost, it's almost certainly a TN panel, which would be good for gaming, but the high resolution could require quite a bit of graphics horsepower to run at native resolution, depending on the game.

I'm definitely interested to hear if anyone else has experience with this monitor.

you2
01-05-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm rather unhappy with the HP LP2065 I received from amazon week of dec 24. The issue is backlight is excessively too bright in one corner (about 15% of the screen). For games (like witcher) which want to paint that corner black it stands out like a sore thumb. for text work, art work or games that paint the entire screen it is not noticable.

If I apply pressure to the bazel in the corner that fixes the problem but i don't see a way to apply the pressure perm. Does anyone know if i remove the four outer screws (on the back) if there are inner screws connecting the front bazel?

Anyways I've used quite a few lcds over the years and I'm not that picky. This one is exceptionally poor. I'm not sure if it is specific to this monitor or all hps.

I'm inquiring with amazon about a possible return but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle/expense.


Originally posted by: weh
Ingenuitor,

Check out the HP LP2065. It is a very high quality H-IPS panel (best for photo and sRGB work) and it is very reasonable in price.

brencat
01-05-2009, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Originally posted by: paperfist
Does anyone own a Dell SP2309W 23" LCD (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641) or consider it a gaming LCD?

Thanks :)

This LCD also caught my eye recently. Given the cost, it's almost certainly a TN panel, which would be good for gaming, but the high resolution could require quite a bit of graphics horsepower to run at native resolution, depending on the game.

I'm definitely interested to hear if anyone else has experience with this monitor.

There is a dedicated thread at Hardforum about this monitor if you want to check it out. Also from what I've seen, this is a glossy screen whereas the other lower resolution 1080p monitors, S2309W and S2409W are matte screens.

Ingenuitor
01-05-2009, 02:49 PM
I will look into this, thank you for the info, seems some others are not satisfied. What about NEC or Acer even? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Ingenuitor
01-05-2009, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by: weh
Ingenuitor,

Check out the HP LP2065. It is a very high quality H-IPS panel (best for photo and sRGB work) and it is very reasonable in price.

I will look into this, thank you for the info, seems some others are not satisfied. What about NEC or Acer even? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

paperfist
01-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Originally posted by: paperfist
Does anyone own a Dell SP2309W 23" LCD (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641) or consider it a gaming LCD?

Thanks :)

This LCD also caught my eye recently. Given the cost, it's almost certainly a TN panel, which would be good for gaming, but the high resolution could require quite a bit of graphics horsepower to run at native resolution, depending on the game.

I'm definitely interested to hear if anyone else has experience with this monitor.

There is a dedicated thread at Hardforum about this monitor if you want to check it out. Also from what I've seen, this is a glossy screen whereas the other lower resolution 1080p monitors, S2309W and S2409W are matte screens.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hardforum tip ;)

It seems like the S2309W (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=320-7339) is a little different (1920x1080 - 5ms - .266mm - & 1000:1 contrast ratio) then the SP2309W (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641) (2048x1152 - 2ms - .249mm - & 80,000:1 contrast ratio)

The S2409W (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7345) has: 1920x1080 - 5ms - .276mm & 1000:1 contrast ratio. So spec wise it seems like the SP2309W kicks the other 2's butt...

BTW, How come it seems like everyone is down on glossy screens? I have a matte finish laptop and my friend has a glossy one and I have screen envy :) His looks so much more vivid and realistic then what I have.

brencat
01-05-2009, 04:59 PM
I personally like glossy screens -- still using a 10yr old CRT (not for much longer...BenQ V2400W on the way!). Then again, my monitor is in a corner office cabinet away from sunlight. Only in mid summer when the sun is at high noon does it come through the skylights in the office and annoy me.

But it also depends on HOW glossy. For example, the hp 2408h is excessively so IMO, whereas the LG L227WTG-PF is just right. I recently saw these 2 monitors in person so that is why I made this particular comparison.

Ingenuitor
01-05-2009, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by: brencat
I personally like glossy screens -- still using a 10yr old CRT (not for much longer...BenQ V2400W on the way!). Then again, my monitor is in a corner office cabinet away from sunlight. Only in mid summer when the sun is at high noon does it come through the skylights in the office and annoy me.

But it also depends on HOW glossy. For example, the hp 2408h is excessively so IMO, whereas the LG L227WTG-PF is just right. I recently saw these 2 monitors in person so that is why I made this particular comparison.

So many choices, this tasks is really difficult as I know just about nothing on LCD screens. Other than using laptops. Good luck...

you2
01-05-2009, 10:32 PM
The only options I saw were dell, hp, viewsonic and nec. It seems that 20 inch (1600x1200) is no longer a popular size. Nec has one low end model (below $500) but it availability is scarce. I'm unsure if it is IPS. Viewsonic has a model that is around (slight more) than $500. A few reviews complain about the durability of this model (i.e, it died prematurely and service was rather poor). I tried to check the health of viewsonic but it seems to be a private company so that couple with the above issues was enough to spook me). I would either gamble on the dell or the hp. As I noted I'm very unhappy with the issue I have with the hp but unsure it is worth $27 to return it. Also I do not know if my case is typical.


Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: weh
Ingenuitor,

Check out the HP LP2065. It is a very high quality H-IPS panel (best for photo and sRGB work) and it is very reasonable in price.

I will look into this, thank you for the info, seems some others are not satisfied. What about NEC or Acer even? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Ingenuitor
01-05-2009, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by: brencat
I personally like glossy screens -- still using a 10yr old CRT (not for much longer...BenQ V2400W on the way!). Then again, my monitor is in a corner office cabinet away from sunlight. Only in mid summer when the sun is at high noon does it come through the skylights in the office and annoy me.

But it also depends on HOW glossy. For example, the hp 2408h is excessively so IMO, whereas the LG L227WTG-PF is just right. I recently saw these 2 monitors in person so that is why I made this particular comparison.

Why LG with all the choices available out here? Is that a IPS panel? I'm only asking because I'm searching myself for three monitors and not sure what to look at yet. Thanks and good luck.

Ingenuitor
01-05-2009, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: you2
The only options I saw were dell, hp, viewsonic and nec. It seems that 20 inch (1600x1200) is no longer a popular size. Nec has one low end model (below $500) but it availability is scarce. I'm unsure if it is IPS. Viewsonic has a model that is around (slight more) than $500. A few reviews complain about the durability of this model (i.e, it died prematurely and service was rather poor). I tried to check the health of viewsonic but it seems to be a private company so that couple with the above issues was enough to spook me). I would either gamble on the dell or the hp. As I noted I'm very unhappy with the issue I have with the hp but unsure it is worth $27 to return it. Also I do not know if my case is typical.


Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: weh
Ingenuitor,

Check out the HP LP2065. It is a very high quality H-IPS panel (best for photo and sRGB work) and it is very reasonable in price.

I will look into this, thank you for the info, seems some others are not satisfied. What about NEC or Acer even? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks




Seems to me Nec may still be the best, but really cost allot $800 each with very slow response time. I have seen one HP that costs $2500 it was manufactured for Dream Works Studios. That's a pricey meatball.

brencat
01-06-2009, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: brencat
I personally like glossy screens -- still using a 10yr old CRT (not for much longer...BenQ V2400W on the way!). Then again, my monitor is in a corner office cabinet away from sunlight. Only in mid summer when the sun is at high noon does it come through the skylights in the office and annoy me.

But it also depends on HOW glossy. For example, the hp 2408h is excessively so IMO, whereas the LG L227WTG-PF is just right. I recently saw these 2 monitors in person so that is why I made this particular comparison.

Why LG with all the choices available out here? Is that a IPS panel? I'm only asking because I'm searching myself for three monitors and not sure what to look at yet. Thanks and good luck.

Not saying the LG is right for you at all. I merely was comparing the glossy screens of the 22" LG and the 24" HP, that's it. I'm a gamer so response time is most important to me. And the LG I mentioned is xt's #1 pick in the Hardcore Gaming category. If your needs are for photos and/or non-gaming, you should probably be looking IPS or VA panels. Check the OP and look at the top pics in each category.

aceO07
01-06-2009, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by: you2
I'm rather unhappy with the HP LP2065 I received from amazon week of dec 24. The issue is backlight is excessively too bright in one corner (about 15% of the screen). For games (like witcher) which want to paint that corner black it stands out like a sore thumb. for text work, art work or games that paint the entire screen it is not noticable.

If I apply pressure to the bazel in the corner that fixes the problem but i don't see a way to apply the pressure perm. Does anyone know if i remove the four outer screws (on the back) if there are inner screws connecting the front bazel?

Anyways I've used quite a few lcds over the years and I'm not that picky. This one is exceptionally poor. I'm not sure if it is specific to this monitor or all hps.

I'm inquiring with amazon about a possible return but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle/expense.


The 2065 is part of the small business section. HP business side is supposed to have good customer service. Give them a call and see if they can help you out or exchange it for you.

I ordered the HP LP2475 from Amazon today. I'm hoping for it to arrive by Friday. Unless it seems like the LCD might be slow to move from supplier since I do have 2 day prime shipping. So this Friday or Monday. I paid the NY tax and slightly higher price, but Amazon has been good to me so I don't mind once in a while.

Ingenuitor
01-06-2009, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: brencat
I personally like glossy screens -- still using a 10yr old CRT (not for much longer...BenQ V2400W on the way!). Then again, my monitor is in a corner office cabinet away from sunlight. Only in mid summer when the sun is at high noon does it come through the skylights in the office and annoy me.

But it also depends on HOW glossy. For example, the hp 2408h is excessively so IMO, whereas the LG L227WTG-PF is just right. I recently saw these 2 monitors in person so that is why I made this particular comparison.

Why LG with all the choices available out here? Is that a IPS panel? I'm only asking because I'm searching myself for three monitors and not sure what to look at yet. Thanks and good luck.

Not saying the LG is right for you at all. I merely was comparing the glossy screens of the 22" LG and the 24" HP, that's it. I'm a gamer so response time is most important to me. And the LG I mentioned is xt's #1 pick in the Hardcore Gaming category. If your needs are for photos and/or non-gaming, you should probably be looking IPS or VA panels. Check the OP and look at the top pics in each category.

What is a OP? < noob... =)

Bryson777
01-06-2009, 04:24 AM
What is a OP? < noob... =)

OP = Original Post, as in the first post of this thread.

xtknight
01-06-2009, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by: Gautama2
I'm at a crossroads. I'm looking to buy a new 22" monitor. Black levels, backlight bleeding, color reporoduction, and ghosting are all important issues to me. I'm willing to go up to $300, but I've found these three deals:

Dell Ultrasharp 2208WFP for $202 with free shipping, there is a $50 off Dell monitors coupon floating around, too.
http://accessories.us.dell.com...bsd&cs=04&sku=320-6107 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-6107)

ViewSonic VX2255wmb for $230 + $25 shipping
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O...t75910-20&linkCode=asn (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OLG74I?smid=A9B09ZK9BZJQ6&tag=dealt75910-20&linkCode=asn)

HP W2207H for $250 with free shipping
http://www.amazon.com/W2207H-2...3U6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce (http://www.amazon.com/W2207H-22-inch-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor/dp/B00139S3U6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce)


I'm learning towards the HP right now, but which one is the best? And is it worth it over the cheap Dell?

Yeah, it probably is worth it. The ViewSonic is actually a really good choice too, but I guess I'd go for the HP. I'm not that crazy about ViewSonic anymore, and the HP really is a good bundle.

I also had to choose between the L227 and w2207h and the w2207h looked to be a close second. But I didn't examine it in depth and a lot of people said it had a lot of backlight bleeding. Perhaps the h (HDMI) panels are better than the original w2207.

xtknight
01-06-2009, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Hello all I'm looking for three higher end monitors that are no more than 20". My mounting apparatus will only accept three 20" or two 26". http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st....rtechcorp_2036_2988345 (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/airtechcorp_2036_2988345) I think I have decided to go with three bringing the total to 60" of monitors. This will be plenty to look at I think. Plus it will be a more well balanced in function and looks as well.

What would you recommend for a fulltime graphic designer that is also a software programmer and a part time photographer? I need to buy three monitors and the ideal in my mind would be three 20" that can be rotated easily for reviewing very long coded documents of programming and high resolution portrait images in CS4, video and web pages.

All this will be mounted on a tri monitor mount and attached to an ergonomic pneumatic desk unit. I assume nor more than $1000 tops each for the panels but would like to pay less if I can. From what I read NEC are the best way to go, but is there better or similar for less money. Acer looks nice, but not 100% sure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009126 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009126)

Here is a whole mess of 20's i found on New Egg http://www.newegg.com/Product/...&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000190020%201309821318&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS)

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Yea I don't think there's a good reason to spend over $500 on each panel. Three HP LP2065s or Dell 2007FPs should be just fine.

If it needs to be widescreen, the decision's harder due to the lack of non-TN widescreen panels. I'm actually not sure if there are any widescreen non-TN 20" panels whatsoever, at least in North America.

You could consider two Planar PX2611Ws if you wanted to, as well. However, these are wide gamut. What I'd really recommend is to get three 20" standard size panels and a good colorimeter because you will be doing graphics design. I think you will be pleased with the performance you can get by saving ~$400 getting an LP2065 over a higher end NEC.

If you don't want to sacrifice anything, you can get three 20.1" NEC LCD2090UXi panels. They also come in 21.3" standard size, LCD2190UXi. The LCD2090 is cheaper and a lot faster.

xtknight
01-06-2009, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by: NTB
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: NTB
How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode :)

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

I'm not sure; I've never used a glossy display in an office environment. I assume the standard office is just fluorescent-lit from the ceiling. It really depends on a lot of things too like how picky you are. Personally I think I'd do fine in that environment with a glossy panel.

The HP w2408h is the obvious 24" glossy equivalent to what you have.

If your built-in Intel graphics provide a DVI port, then probably. If it only provides a VGA port, then probably not.

Boo on the graphics :( I checked this week, and my work PC only has VGA output. As for the monitor, I *was* looking at the 2408h until I found the 2207. The higher resolution in the 24" model would have been nice, but the price was a bit steep - I only paid ~$250 for the 22", while most places are asking $400+ for the 24".

Hmm would they let you put in another video card? Not sure what interface your computer would take.

Ingenuitor
01-06-2009, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Hello all I'm looking for three higher end monitors that are no more than 20". My mounting apparatus will only accept three 20" or two 26". http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st....rtechcorp_2036_2988345 (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/airtechcorp_2036_2988345) I think I have decided to go with three bringing the total to 60" of monitors. This will be plenty to look at I think. Plus it will be a more well balanced in function and looks as well.

What would you recommend for a fulltime graphic designer that is also a software programmer and a part time photographer? I need to buy three monitors and the ideal in my mind would be three 20" that can be rotated easily for reviewing very long coded documents of programming and high resolution portrait images in CS4, video and web pages.

All this will be mounted on a tri monitor mount and attached to an ergonomic pneumatic desk unit. I assume nor more than $1000 tops each for the panels but would like to pay less if I can. From what I read NEC are the best way to go, but is there better or similar for less money. Acer looks nice, but not 100% sure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009126 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009126)

Here is a whole mess of 20's i found on New Egg http://www.newegg.com/Product/...&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000190020%201309821318&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS)

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Yea I don't think there's a good reason to spend over $500 on each panel. Three HP LP2065s or Dell 2007FPs should be just fine.

If it needs to be widescreen, the decision's harder due to the lack of non-TN widescreen panels. I'm actually not sure if there are any widescreen non-TN 20" panels whatsoever, at least in North America.

You could consider two Planar PX2611Ws if you wanted to, as well. However, these are wide gamut. What I'd really recommend is to get three 20" standard size panels and a good colorimeter because you will be doing graphics design. I think you will be pleased with the performance you can get by saving ~$400 getting an LP2065 over a higher end NEC.

If you don't want to sacrifice anything, you can get three 20.1" NEC LCD2090UXi panels. They also come in 21.3" standard size, LCD2190UXi. The LCD2090 is cheaper and a lot faster.

You have been very very helpful and I thank you for that, since this is for business use I need solid support as well and am leaning toward three NEC LCD2090UXI-BK at $400 each new from a wholesaler this may be the best price as well. HP and Dell concern me a little when it comes to warranty issues and overall quality control. Thanks again.

you2
01-06-2009, 11:23 AM
Do you have a contact number for hp? Newegg reviews indicated that folks had bad luck with hp but i should give them a call anyways - can't hurt. Also 3 or 4 newegg review reported problem similar to mine (impossible from the review to tell if it was worse or better than mine - but most folks did not report this specific problem).


Originally posted by: aceO07
Originally posted by: you2
I'm rather unhappy with the HP LP2065 I received from amazon week of dec 24. The issue is backlight is excessively too bright in one corner (about 15% of the screen). For games (like witcher) which want to paint that corner black it stands out like a sore thumb. for text work, art work or games that paint the entire screen it is not noticable.

If I apply pressure to the bazel in the corner that fixes the problem but i don't see a way to apply the pressure perm. Does anyone know if i remove the four outer screws (on the back) if there are inner screws connecting the front bazel?

Anyways I've used quite a few lcds over the years and I'm not that picky. This one is exceptionally poor. I'm not sure if it is specific to this monitor or all hps.

I'm inquiring with amazon about a possible return but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle/expense.


The 2065 is part of the small business section. HP business side is supposed to have good customer service. Give them a call and see if they can help you out or exchange it for you.

I ordered the HP LP2475 from Amazon today. I'm hoping for it to arrive by Friday. Unless it seems like the LCD might be slow to move from supplier since I do have 2 day prime shipping. So this Friday or Monday. I paid the NY tax and slightly higher price, but Amazon has been good to me so I don't mind once in a while.

imported_mostlyprudent
01-06-2009, 12:27 PM
Just wanted to report that I purchase an HP LP2065 from Provantage (part# EF227A8#ABA). It arrived today and my wife called to say the sticker on the box indicated REV. GSM003. From what I have read that should mean S-IPS. Looks like I won the lottery!

you2
01-06-2009, 01:44 PM
Are there any good ips panels @ 19 inch? I've sort of decided to return the hp and i'm not overly eager to pay $450 for a dell which might be no better. I was wondering if i step down to the 1280x1024 (19 inch) if the options were more appealing ?

Ingenuitor
01-06-2009, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by: you2
Are there any good ips panels @ 19 inch? I've sort of decided to return the hp and i'm not overly eager to pay $450 for a dell which might be no better. I was wondering if i step down to the 1280x1024 (19 inch) if the options were more appealing ?


Go with a brand new NEC LCD2090UXi- for around $400 if you look seems like a really good deal to me. Not sure if your a gamer, if so it may not be the best then. Good luck.

10e
01-06-2009, 03:17 PM
I do know that it is a glossy 2048x1152 panel from Samsung in that Dell. It is definitely a TN monitor, and it comes with a web cam and 1xDVI, 1xHDMI, and 1xVGA ports.

Having seen the Samsung 2343BW, I can confirm it is 100% TN, and the Dell is extremely likely the same. For a TN panel, the impression was pretty favorable IMHO.

Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Originally posted by: paperfist
Does anyone own a Dell SP2309W 23" LCD (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641) or consider it a gaming LCD?

Thanks :)

This LCD also caught my eye recently. Given the cost, it's almost certainly a TN panel, which would be good for gaming, but the high resolution could require quite a bit of graphics horsepower to run at native resolution, depending on the game.

I'm definitely interested to hear if anyone else has experience with this monitor.

ZetaEpyon
01-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the information, 10e. It'd been my guess that the Dell uses that Samsung panel; the release timing of these two monitors was too coincidental to be anything else.
Where did you happen to see the 2343BW? I'd like to see one in person myself, if possible.

10e
01-06-2009, 04:26 PM
I'm Canadian, so I found it at a big box Canadian store called Future Shop. I actually bought it to try it out. It only cost me $249.99 Canadian, which in my opinion is very cheap.

I wanted to see how well it worked with my PS3 even though it is only DVI and VGA, but with HDMI to DVI adapter it works perfectly due to the 16:9 ratio being the native ratio of 480p, 720p, and 1080p. It does scale everything up to 2048x1152 with the PS3, but there is no visible distortion or cutting off of the picture (ie. overscan) so I am actually inclined to keep it as a small console monitor. It is also very low in the input lag category from what I can tell (and I'm sensitive to input lag).

It also worked perfectly with Xbox 360 over HDMI to DVI, and worked very well at 720p with Xbox 360 over VGA. 1920x1080 worked over VGA, but cut a small portion off of the bottom of the screen (about half inch), but these are Samsung specific characteristics, and I doubt the Dell would have any scaling issues over DVI, HDMI, or VGA.

Alternatively with PC it will do 1:1 pixel mapping with my ATI 4870 card from Asus with no issues, so that is nice too, and I had no issues detecting the new resolution of 2048x1152 over DVI.

Visually it is pretty good, and compares quite well with the BenQ E2400HD which I have in my possession. Both are solid TN panels with no issues with dithering or banding. I did actually test the color calibration and it is also good. With the glossy coating, I'm assuming the Dell would be razor sharp with good perceived contrast.



Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Thanks for the information, 10e. It'd been my guess that the Dell uses that Samsung panel; the release timing of these two monitors was too coincidental to be anything else.
Where did you happen to see the 2343BW? I'd like to see one in person myself, if possible.

Ingenuitor
01-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Now I am wondering if I should go with three NEC LCD2090UXi or just one of those for the center and two other ones for other tasks such as video and faster responses. Seems all monitors have some sort of trade off. Compared to CRT anyway. =)

cmv
01-06-2009, 07:15 PM
Any thoughts on the SVA 2400W? Here is one thread about it that I'll snag the review links from:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/892788/
Reviews:
http://www.behardware.com/arti...th-iolair-vs-dell.html (http://www.behardware.com/articles/712-1/lcd-david-vs-goliath-iolair-vs-dell.html)
Manufacturer page:
http://www.sva-usa.com/2400W.html

The lack of adjustment on the stand and (if I recall correctly) the uncertainty of getting glossy or matte is a bit disturbing. But perhaps it is a good ultra budget buy for beginning photographers?

mmnno
01-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by: cmv
Any thoughts on the SVA 2400W? Here is one thread about it that I'll snag the review links from:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/892788/
Reviews:
http://www.behardware.com/arti...th-iolair-vs-dell.html (http://www.behardware.com/articles/712-1/lcd-david-vs-goliath-iolair-vs-dell.html)
Manufacturer page:
http://www.sva-usa.com/2400W.html

The lack of adjustment on the stand and (if I recall correctly) the uncertainty of getting glossy or matte is a bit disturbing. But perhaps it is a good ultra budget buy for beginning photographers?

I have one, or rather I bought one and gave it to a casual user. (It came with 3 dead pixels and the recipent didn't care, that's how casual.)

Black level is uninspiring. Not the worst I have ever seen, but somewhere below mediocre. It has disturbingly few controls on the OSD. It does feel very cheap, but at least the panel is secure in the frame, which is more than I can say for some monitors that cost 3x as much. I can't say anything about the color accuracy, but if it's off you certainly won't get any help from the OSD. It does have good image stability though, which is of course the sole reason you are considering it.

Depending on how serious a photographer you are, you may want to settle for a TN, or else hold out for a factory refurbished unit of a nicer display at a big discount. Or save up for something more expensive.

aceO07
01-06-2009, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by: you2
Do you have a contact number for hp? Newegg reviews indicated that folks had bad luck with hp but i should give them a call anyways - can't hurt. Also 3 or 4 newegg review reported problem similar to mine (impossible from the review to tell if it was worse or better than mine - but most folks did not report this specific problem).


There's a long long thread at hardforum.com. The posters seem to like their support. I don't have any personal experience, but hopefully it'll be good if I need it.

Exclusive
01-07-2009, 06:47 AM
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...155/index1543675.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_155/index1543675.shtml)
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...155/index1543682.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_155/index1543682.shtml)

OR

http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...186/index1851888.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_186/index1851888.shtml)
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...186/index1851889.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_186/index1851889.shtml)



Which looks more correct and accurate with the colors?

brencat
01-07-2009, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by: Exclusive
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...155/index1543675.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_155/index1543675.shtml)
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...155/index1543682.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_155/index1543682.shtml)

OR

http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...186/index1851888.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_186/index1851888.shtml)
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...186/index1851889.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_186/index1851889.shtml)



Which looks more correct and accurate with the colors?
Rhetorical question but the answer is the first set -- and by a country mile too.

Have you calibrated the V2400W? It shouldn't be that far off. Disabled AMA and DC?

reiks
01-07-2009, 11:20 AM
Hey guys,

This is my first post here, I just wanted to say thanks for putting all of this awesome info together. I also wanted to get an opinion on a monitor, I was looking at getting the 24": Samsung SyncMaster 2493HM but I saw there was a 26": Samsung SyncMaster 2693HM which appears to be the same model just 2" bigger. I'm looking for a good gaming monitor and the 26" is just a little more tempting. Is it a good choice the only reason I decide to ask is the monitor is not on your list.

Thanks for any help.

reiks

paperfist
01-07-2009, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by: brencat
I personally like glossy screens -- still using a 10yr old CRT (not for much longer...BenQ V2400W on the way!). Then again, my monitor is in a corner office cabinet away from sunlight. Only in mid summer when the sun is at high noon does it come through the skylights in the office and annoy me.

But it also depends on HOW glossy. For example, the hp 2408h is excessively so IMO, whereas the LG L227WTG-PF is just right. I recently saw these 2 monitors in person so that is why I made this particular comparison.

I didn't know there were gloss levels, thanks for pointing that out :)

I went ahead an ordered the Dell SP2309W and I'll post some feedback if anyone is interested.

ZetaEpyon
01-07-2009, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by: paperfist
I went ahead an ordered the Dell SP2309W and I'll post some feedback if anyone is interested.



Cool, I'm definitely interested to hear your impressions.
I may have to move my own purchasing plans forward; my old 17" Samsung LCD is starting to develop a weird, faint green line. :(

Exclusive
01-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Yes.

WaxHaX0rS
01-07-2009, 07:40 PM
I have one question about the Benq G2400WD. What do people think of the brightness? The number in the spec (which I really know jack about) seems low compared to others.

Also, anyone know of an online store that has a good return policy? I probably won't be returning, but it would be nice just in case. I am thinking NCIXUS ( http://www.ncixus.com/products/31200/G2400WD/BENQ/ ) with the additional 0 dead pixel exchange policy (not returnable though I don't think).

Nate RFB
01-08-2009, 11:37 AM
I am looking for an upgrade in the 24" LCD space. Having dealt with a 2405FPW for the past several years, input lag/response time are the two major areas that I'm trying to improve upon.

Dell's 2407WFP, 2407WFP-HC, and 2408WFP all caught my eye. The fact that the only thing I seem to deal with are Dell's is a coincidence, and any recommendations for other models would be fine. Those are just the ones that seemed to jump out in X-bit's 24" roundups.

All three seem to be very good, but have at least one factor that is less than desirable in the realm of response time, image delay, and/or RTC error rate.

The 2407WFP has an image delay of 23.7 ms on average, which is the best of the three. It also has a good RTC error rate of 5.4%. What it lacks is a great response time, 9.9 ms, which is I guess average for a VA panel. Currently I think I like this one the best.

The 2407WFP-HC has a superior response time of 6.6 ms and a comparable image delay of 34.1 ms, but the RTC error rate of 13.5% is very troubling. It seems like this model would be the easiest to calibrate and get some really good color gamuts, so it's kind of disappointing that that one flaw stands out so much.

The 2408WFP boasts an outstanding RTC error rate of 3%, but the image delay of 69 ms on average seems really bad.

Am I going about this the wrong way? Perhaps giving too much credence to RTC/response/image delay? All three monitors are probably vastly superior to my 2405FPW, but I'd still prefer to get the best compromise. I guess right now I'm leaning towards the 2407WPF, but would really appreciate some other input...

Ardan
01-08-2009, 01:31 PM
I recall posting here once and I chose a new monitor, the L227WT and it was good, but the particular one that I had also came with some amazingly bad backlight bleed (half of the screen, to be precise), so I returned it to Best Buy but didn't get another one. I decided to just hold on to my 215TW and just not play many movies on it. I do realize that it isn't indicative of the model in general, but just was one bad egg. If anyone remembers, which is unlikely, my beloved 215TW has been getting some ugly backlight bleed on all 4 corners (regardless of the brightness level) that extends in far enough to get irritating when watching a widescreen movie because it was reaching the video.

Well, my brother and his wife would like it because I am thinking of getting one (after I finish my taxes--probably will get a big return this year too!) and I was a little curious. I haven't had a chance to do very extensive searches of forums, but I've glanced at reviews of various monitors. I do like to play games (such as Team Fortress 2, played Bioshock, but also enjoy racing games) but only casually. Regardless of the input delay the 215TW had (~47ms average? I can't remember where I saw that), I actually have done extremely well in first person shooters with that monitor.

I don't think it has hampered me one bit (and nothing improved drastically when using the L227WTG in games), so I've decided to go for another non-TN monitor. I don't just game on here, but I enjoy movies and also dabble in video/graphic design. I am, like probably many others in here, in the IT field and my photo work is nowhere near color critical. So, before someone talks of the lack of color accuracy of a wide-gamut monitor to me, just know that I really do not care at all about that (the video/photo work is neither for a job nor very serious work). I really enjoyed watching movies on that Samsung and don't really like it on the TN panels I've seen at other peoples' houses or my own (though it was hampered by the backlight problem).

So, I originally was thinking of HP's 22" S-PVA monitor, but it appears that a lot of people (some that I know, as well) have had some big issues with that screen, so that is out of the question. I was thinking of a good 24" screen like the LP2475w because of the H-IPS panel it uses, but also on my list was Dell's 2408WFP. Yes, I will be willing to pay for the LP2475w or the 2408WFP but no, I'm not going to go higher than that. Should this be a hands-down decision to go for the LP2475w if I am willing to pay for it, or is this a toss-up? I had no issues with the high input lag on the 215TW, but I was told that it is much worse on the 2408WFP so maybe I should stay away from that. Plus, there would be no color shift with the 2475W like on my 215TW, so maybe I should choose that instead. Sorry if this answer is obvious to some of you, but I just don't have the time right now to do some in depth research to break my indecision. I'm assuming, however, that it would be better to go with an H-IPS panel over an S-PVA. Is this accurate? Looks like that is probably the best deal, LP2475W. Thanks for your thoughts on this matter!

brencat
01-08-2009, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by: Ardan
So, I originally was thinking of HP's 22" S-PVA monitor, but it appears that a lot of people (some that I know, as well) have had some big issues with that screen, so that is out of the question. I was thinking of a good 24" screen like the LP2475w because of the H-IPS panel it uses, but also on my list was Dell's 2408WFP. Yes, I will be willing to pay for the LP2475w or the 2408WFP but no, I'm not going to go higher than that. Should this be a hands-down decision to go for the LP2475w if I am willing to pay for it, or is this a toss-up? I had no issues with the high input lag on the 215TW, but I was told that it is much worse on the 2408WFP so maybe I should stay away from that. Plus, there would be no color shift with the 2475W like on my 215TW, so maybe I should choose that instead. Sorry if this answer is obvious to some of you, but I just don't have the time right now to do some in depth research to break my indecision. I'm assuming, however, that it would be better to go with an H-IPS panel over an S-PVA. Is this accurate? Looks like that is probably the best deal, LP2475W. Thanks for your thoughts on this matter!

If I had $600 to spend on an all-around monitor (which I personally don't), my choice today would be the HP 2475w, without hesitation. H-IPS screen with ~ 34ms total lag will be better than your 215TW and you'll have great image quality. I'm a FPS gamer primarily, yet would still be willing to take this chance on the HP if I had the money.

I'd personally avoid the 2408WFP given its 65+ms of lag, which is nearly 4 frames. There's plenty of posts on Hardforum about people returning this one because they can't stand the delay even from moving the mouse cursor. I'd hate to try gaming with that.

xtknight
01-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by: you2
Are there any good ips panels @ 19 inch? I've sort of decided to return the hp and i'm not overly eager to pay $450 for a dell which might be no better. I was wondering if i step down to the 1280x1024 (19 inch) if the options were more appealing ?

Not any good IPS ones I don't think. But there is the NEC LCD1990FXp (S-PVA).

xtknight
01-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by: Exclusive
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...155/index1543675.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_155/index1543675.shtml)
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...155/index1543682.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_155/index1543682.shtml)

OR

http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...186/index1851888.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_186/index1851888.shtml)
http://detail.zol.com.cn/pictu...186/index1851889.shtml (http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_186/index1851889.shtml)



Which looks more correct and accurate with the colors?

It's very difficult to tell as the camera will do autoexposure and negate the effect of the dynamic contrast a bit. I'd say anything without dynamic contrast and whatever is closest to 6500K is the right thing, regardless of how it looks, but it's hard to tell without being there. The first, I guess, but I don't necessarily think the second is wildly off. I actually kinda like it. Again it's hard to tell without being there.

xtknight
01-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by: cmv
Any thoughts on the SVA 2400W? Here is one thread about it that I'll snag the review links from:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/892788/
Reviews:
http://www.behardware.com/arti...th-iolair-vs-dell.html (http://www.behardware.com/articles/712-1/lcd-david-vs-goliath-iolair-vs-dell.html)
Manufacturer page:
http://www.sva-usa.com/2400W.html

The lack of adjustment on the stand and (if I recall correctly) the uncertainty of getting glossy or matte is a bit disturbing. But perhaps it is a good ultra budget buy for beginning photographers?

Yea it's certainly a good mention like the Westinghouse L2410NM and the Soyo 24" P-MVA that used to be around. Thanks for the info.

I wouldn't really hesitate to call it a good photo editing display but you'd probably need a colorimeter to make it so. VA panels do have an adequate viewing angle in my opinion for even critical photo editing. Many panels like this however come with poor default calibration and apparently as mmnno said, a lack of controls.

I'm trying to find out why you sent me to the Iolair vs. Dell review. Is the SVA the same as the Iolair? If so, what's also interesting is this is the only VA panel that I know of with no input lag.

Anyway, it looks like the SVA is a TN sometimes, unfortunately.

xtknight
01-08-2009, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by: reiks
Hey guys,

This is my first post here, I just wanted to say thanks for putting all of this awesome info together. I also wanted to get an opinion on a monitor, I was looking at getting the 24": Samsung SyncMaster 2493HM but I saw there was a 26": Samsung SyncMaster 2693HM which appears to be the same model just 2" bigger. I'm looking for a good gaming monitor and the 26" is just a little more tempting. Is it a good choice the only reason I decide to ask is the monitor is not on your list.

Thanks for any help.

reiks

I thought that 10e had some experience with the 2693HM here. I can't personally vouch for it (which, actually is the case with most monitors on my list). It should be pretty similar to the 2493HM. You might note that X-Bit Labs reviewed the 26" Samsung ToC successor to the *HM series (T260):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ng-topaz_10.html#sect0 (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-topaz_10.html#sect0)

They didn't like it much. Yet, the T240 had much better color temperature setup. I also don't like getting TNs in the bigger sizes. I think 25.5" (26") is pushing it for the viewing angles a TN gives you. It's certainly usable, just not nearly as convenient as a VA or IPS panel. A while ago I was a bit hesitant to recommend 24" TNs to people, and although I got over that phobia, I don't think it'll happen with 25.5", 28", or 30" TNs.

My advice is to go with one of the 24" TNs on my list, a 24" IPS, or a 26" IPS panel. Even if a 26" TN had good color setup I wouldn't want to recommend it because of the size. To give you some idea:

From 17-22" it's pretty hard to tell a good TN vs other panels in everyday use.
In 23"+, the TN panels can start to be annoying in everyday use.
In 25.5"+, it is much more convenient to have a VA/IPS panel.

That's what I think. To tell you the truth I've never seen a 25.5" TN panel but from seeing the 24"s I can see how anything worse may be annoying.

It does depend on your use. You might be able to stomach a TN for any type of gaming. But if gradients on the screen annoy you, even basic use like browsing the web and seeing a gradient when there's supposed to be a solid color might get really annoying. Unless gaming is a huge thing for you, I'd always recommend a Dell 2408WFP or HP LP2475w before the G2400W, even though the latter is quite nice for a TN panel.

Ardan
01-08-2009, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by: brencat
If I had $600 to spend on an all-around monitor (which I personally don't), my choice today would be the HP 2475w, without hesitation. H-IPS screen with ~ 34ms total lag will be better than your 215TW and you'll have great image quality. I'm a FPS gamer primarily, yet would still be willing to take this chance on the HP if I had the money.

I'd personally avoid the 2408WFP given its 65+ms of lag, which is nearly 4 frames. There's plenty of posts on Hardforum about people returning this one because they can't stand the delay even from moving the mouse cursor. I'd hate to try gaming with that.

Wow, no kidding huh? I thought it was maybe a little bit more than my current monitor. That is decidedly worse than this one is, that's for sure. No wonder people were returning them :Q. Obviously, an H-IPS panel with ~34ms total lag is a big improvement over my current monitor, and not just as far as input lag goes. I won't be buying it right away, because I want to get taxes out of the way first, but at least I have a goal to shoot for. Anyone know what the backlight bleed is like on that monitor, or are H-IPS panels usually fairly good in that regard? I just noticed that it says on this forum that it has some color temperature uniformity issues, too, but I think I am willing to take a chance on that as well.

you2
01-08-2009, 05:19 PM
Are there any 19 or 20 inch monitors you would recommend for the multi-media category. I checked the first page and the only monitor I saw listed was the hp l2065 (which I am going to return). My sample of this monitor was horrible due to lower right hand corner being very bright. Since I've read so many bad reviews about hp service (recent reviews) I've decided to drop this model from consideration (also a few others noted the same issue).

I'm not that picky but playing witcher (which uses dark colours and paint that corner dark) and watching movies at night in a well light room were rather unenjoyable due to this issue. I stress these points to explain the issue clearly - i.e, the normal desk top you had to look to see it. During the day it was less noticable (sun light is much brighter than my 300 watt torch lamp - which is much brighter than most lamps folks use).
--
I would prefer to stick with a 4:3 monitor though would consider 20 or 22 inch 1980x1200 (not 1080p). Since I'm dropping the ips requirement I would think I could find something less expensive than the dell 2007fp. The benq 22inch seems tempting but it is widescreen and 1080p.

I guess I'm a bit odd since most folks oogle over widescreen. I noticed the westinghouse 32 inch 1080P for $269 which is oh so tempting 'cept that it is way too big for my environment. I really would prefer something in the 19/20 inch range - preferably 4:3 and solid blacks (even if it is not ips) :)

anyways hopefully something exist for weird people like me :)

dfedders
01-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
[It does depend on your use. You might be able to stomach a TN for any type of gaming. But if gradients on the screen annoy you, even basic use like browsing the web and seeing a gradient when there's supposed to be a solid color might get really annoying. Unless gaming is a huge thing for you, I'd always recommend a Dell 2408WFP or HP LP2475w before the G2400W, even though the latter is quite nice for a TN panel.
Are the gradients noticable when browsing the web or just general usage with the G2400WD? My wife has an older 19" LCD, and the gradients drive me nuts on it, so I've kept my CRT around. I was interested in the G2400WD, but not sure how bad the gradients look on it compared to an IPS or MVA. I would say that I am 50% gaming and 50% general use.

Phantomaniac
01-08-2009, 06:03 PM
I was hoping someone could help me find a non-TN 20" wide panel to go with my Acer AL2051W. I don't think I can ever go back to a TN monitor. The colors look washed out and the viewing angles are horrible comparatively. Suggestions?

GZeus
01-08-2009, 07:11 PM
Anyone got any insights on the LG W2600-PH (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005114)?

There are only a few words written on it in this thread but the 'egg reviews are good. It would be primarily for gaming.

Thanks!

GZeus
01-08-2009, 09:12 PM
Hmmm...well I guess I will give my own review after mine arrives.....patience is not one of my virtues ;)

Zap
01-09-2009, 02:00 AM
I just got the Acer Ferrari F-22 monitor, which is a 22" widescreen with X-Brite (Acer's name for glossy screen). Maybe xtknight can add it to the OP?

xtknight
01-09-2009, 09:51 AM
Just a quick plug for flatpanels.dk. They have a new English site at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/. That also means great things for this thread. They have been providing some of the best reviews in the industry although until now they have all been in Danish.

If you guys have reviews of LCDs which you've been recommended by this thread, it would be great if you could post some user reviews at their forum to help them get started. Their forum has support for images.

xtknight
01-09-2009, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by: WaxHaX0rS
I have one question about the Benq G2400WD. What do people think of the brightness? The number in the spec (which I really know jack about) seems low compared to others.

Also, anyone know of an online store that has a good return policy? I probably won't be returning, but it would be nice just in case. I am thinking NCIXUS ( http://www.ncixus.com/products/31200/G2400WD/BENQ/ ) with the additional 0 dead pixel exchange policy (not returnable though I don't think).


At 250 nits it is a bit lower than others but I wouldn't let this turn you off from it. 200 nits, in my opinion, is the highest you can go to be comfortable and besides, many LCDs that can go over 250 nits have a ceiling at which colors become inaccurate. I am not sure where the "inaccuracy cut-off" for the G2400WD is, if it's even lower than 250. You'd have to ask an actual user about that.

I should probably mention the brightness spec is really "maximum brightness". With a backlight control, it would use PWM (pulse width modulation) to control this to the right nit (cd/m^2) level. PWM flashes the backlight over time to control the brightness as a human would see it. It happens from 150 - 600 Hz usually. Unfortunately, past a certain point, when the backlight is ALWAYS on temporally (PWM is not being used whatsoever), then the crystals have to be used to raise the brightness. That's where the inaccuracy (really, clipping) begins. You're going to lose higher levels of color (gray levels 230-255 may merge, for instance, and "burn" may be apparent [ the nonlinearity of crystals at red/green/blue or gamma correction causing discoloration at too high gray levels ] ).

xtknight
01-09-2009, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by: dfedders
Originally posted by: xtknight
[It does depend on your use. You might be able to stomach a TN for any type of gaming. But if gradients on the screen annoy you, even basic use like browsing the web and seeing a gradient when there's supposed to be a solid color might get really annoying. Unless gaming is a huge thing for you, I'd always recommend a Dell 2408WFP or HP LP2475w before the G2400W, even though the latter is quite nice for a TN panel.
Are the gradients noticable when browsing the web or just general usage with the G2400WD? My wife has an older 19" LCD, and the gradients drive me nuts on it, so I've kept my CRT around. I was interested in the G2400WD, but not sure how bad the gradients look on it compared to an IPS or MVA. I would say that I am 50% gaming and 50% general use.



If gradients on a 19" TN drive you nuts, then you should probably avoid a 24" TN.

I haven't used a 24" TN on a daily basis but I can tell you at least one very forgiving review of the Samsung 245BW on YouTube mentioned that gradients could be quite distracting or annoying, and that this was the primary problem with the LCD.

xtknight
01-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by: Nate RFB
I am looking for an upgrade in the 24" LCD space. Having dealt with a 2405FPW for the past several years, input lag/response time are the two major areas that I'm trying to improve upon.

Dell's 2407WFP, 2407WFP-HC, and 2408WFP all caught my eye. The fact that the only thing I seem to deal with are Dell's is a coincidence, and any recommendations for other models would be fine. Those are just the ones that seemed to jump out in X-bit's 24" roundups.

All three seem to be very good, but have at least one factor that is less than desirable in the realm of response time, image delay, and/or RTC error rate.

The 2407WFP has an image delay of 23.7 ms on average, which is the best of the three. It also has a good RTC error rate of 5.4%. What it lacks is a great response time, 9.9 ms, which is I guess average for a VA panel. Currently I think I like this one the best.

The 2407WFP-HC has a superior response time of 6.6 ms and a comparable image delay of 34.1 ms, but the RTC error rate of 13.5% is very troubling. It seems like this model would be the easiest to calibrate and get some really good color gamuts, so it's kind of disappointing that that one flaw stands out so much.

The 2408WFP boasts an outstanding RTC error rate of 3%, but the image delay of 69 ms on average seems really bad.

Am I going about this the wrong way? Perhaps giving too much credence to RTC/response/image delay? All three monitors are probably vastly superior to my 2405FPW, but I'd still prefer to get the best compromise. I guess right now I'm leaning towards the 2407WPF, but would really appreciate some other input...

For gaming, the 2408WFP's input lag could be bothersome. For general use I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, though. Gaming is the only instance where you can't "get used to" the input lag because it directly affects when you see players/enemies. Otherwise the human brain takes over, compensates, and it's generally not a problem. Although, many people are in denial of their own abilities to adapt to it. Humans are not that different and one's not special just because he can detect a few less milliseconds of delay than the other. Of course people have different opinions on this, but the X-Bit Labs LCD reviewer also shares my opinion in his article about input lag.

It really depends on what you use the LCDs for. If gaming is not important to you, you might seek a panel that happens to be higher in input lag but delivers stellar performance in other areas. Do consider the HP LP2475w, which has only 33 ms on average of lag and shouldn't have too many RTC errors. No, I don't have data on the RTC errors, but traditionally IPS panels have had good RTC mechanisms, maybe because LG Display (IPS panel manufacturer) takes more care with these types of panels. The only problem I know of with this LCD is the color temperature uniformity issue (slight discoloration on sides of screens). Not everyone has had it. I'm not sure how that issue is going but it may be under control now. It's worth an investigation.

If you don't want to put up with that, there's the trusty Planar PX2611W which is a step up in size at 25.5" but still IPS. Its hookup features unfortunately pale compared to the HP's.

If you want an undisputed, good 24" LCD go for the NEC LCD2490WUXi. Although, it's not wide gamut, and also lacks many features of the HP. It's also pricey for what it is. If the HP didn't have that QC issue it would be king.

reiks
01-09-2009, 11:27 AM
Thanks xtknight for the reply and keep up the great work! :thumbsup:

Exclusive
01-09-2009, 04:44 PM
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

HardwareSearcher
01-09-2009, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: GoofyFoot
Regarding text and eyestrain, I found the following posting on Hardforum by Snowdog. Looks like 10e is familiar with the Benq G2400, although I have no idea if it's the same panel as the current G2400WD or G2400WAD. Do Snowdog's recommendations make sense to those of you who might have a better sense of the differences in these 24" and larger displays? Thanks.

From Snowdog's posting in the "best monitor to minimize eye strain - text based work" thread on Hardforum:

...

Recommendations: (Controlled brightness, Non VA, Less sparkly, non-neon):

Dim to fairly bright environment: Benq G2400 (nice low powered back light) <$400
Fairly bright to very bright environment: NEC 2490 (more powerful back light ) >$1000

I like these recommendations as well...

Do you still consider the GD2400WD the best (or did you even back then?) when it comes to being easy on the eyes? I am not in a "very bright" environment as I either only have a window open or the ceiling light on in my dorm, but not in a super-bright office environment. Right now I am still on a 17" Gateway flat-screen CRT(possibly originally emachines but rebranded when gateway bought them...it is a "786n"). The dot pitch is 0.25 and I am running at 1024x768 and I often have to lean forward to read good (I wear glasses). So I think only a 22" or 24" would be acceptable, with their larger dot pitches. I would prefer a 22", but it seems, after reading a lot of eyestrain posts in this thread, the GD2400WD has advantages in the eyestrain area that potentially outweighs the slightly larger dot pitch of 22"s?

Any updated or confirmed thoughts on monitors for the ease-on-eyes priority?

dfedders
01-09-2009, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: dfedders
Originally posted by: xtknight
[It does depend on your use. You might be able to stomach a TN for any type of gaming. But if gradients on the screen annoy you, even basic use like browsing the web and seeing a gradient when there's supposed to be a solid color might get really annoying. Unless gaming is a huge thing for you, I'd always recommend a Dell 2408WFP or HP LP2475w before the G2400W, even though the latter is quite nice for a TN panel.
Are the gradients noticable when browsing the web or just general usage with the G2400WD? My wife has an older 19" LCD, and the gradients drive me nuts on it, so I've kept my CRT around. I was interested in the G2400WD, but not sure how bad the gradients look on it compared to an IPS or MVA. I would say that I am 50% gaming and 50% general use.



If gradients on a 19" TN drive you nuts, then you should probably avoid a 24" TN.

I haven't used a 24" TN on a daily basis but I can tell you at least one very forgiving review of the Samsung 245BW on YouTube mentioned that gradients could be quite distracting or annoying, and that this was the primary problem with the LCD.
Just to clarify, I was refering to dithering of colors instead of a smooth transition. I may have confused dithering and gradients in the context of LCDs. When I purchased a 19" LCD previously, it said it supported 16.7 million colors when it obviously didn't come close and the dithering was horrible. Does the same apply for dithering with the G2400WD?

Phantomaniac
01-10-2009, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by: Phantomaniac
I was hoping someone could help me find a non-TN 20" wide panel to go with my Acer AL2051W. I don't think I can ever go back to a TN monitor. The colors look washed out and the viewing angles are horrible comparatively. Suggestions?

No takers? :frown: Seems like my only option is to try to find a discontinued model that's either refurbished or severely overpriced.

10e
01-10-2009, 10:52 AM
I'd take the 2493HM over the 2693HM for one particular reason: The 24" is NOT wide gamut, and the 26" IS. The wide gamut of the 2693HM will give you over saturated colors, similar to a TV with the "color" control knob cranked all the way up.

The rest of XTKnight's assertions are 100% bang on: Too big for a TN panel. Stick with the 24" and you should be a fairly happy gamer.

Originally posted by: reiks
Hey guys,

This is my first post here, I just wanted to say thanks for putting all of this awesome info together. I also wanted to get an opinion on a monitor, I was looking at getting the 24": Samsung SyncMaster 2493HM but I saw there was a 26": Samsung SyncMaster 2693HM which appears to be the same model just 2" bigger. I'm looking for a good gaming monitor and the 26" is just a little more tempting. Is it a good choice the only reason I decide to ask is the monitor is not on your list.

Thanks for any help.

reiks

xtknight
01-10-2009, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by: Phantomaniac
Originally posted by: Phantomaniac
I was hoping someone could help me find a non-TN 20" wide panel to go with my Acer AL2051W. I don't think I can ever go back to a TN monitor. The colors look washed out and the viewing angles are horrible comparatively. Suggestions?

No takers? :frown: Seems like my only option is to try to find a discontinued model that's either refurbished or severely overpriced.

More like "no units". There just aren't any non-TN 20" wide panels out there, unless you want to shell out for an Apple Cinema 20". Actually I don't even know if they sell those anymore.

xtknight
01-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by: Ardan
I recall posting here once and I chose a new monitor, the L227WT and it was good, but the particular one that I had also came with some amazingly bad backlight bleed (half of the screen, to be precise), so I returned it to Best Buy but didn't get another one. I decided to just hold on to my 215TW and just not play many movies on it. I do realize that it isn't indicative of the model in general, but just was one bad egg. If anyone remembers, which is unlikely, my beloved 215TW has been getting some ugly backlight bleed on all 4 corners (regardless of the brightness level) that extends in far enough to get irritating when watching a widescreen movie because it was reaching the video.

Well, my brother and his wife would like it because I am thinking of getting one (after I finish my taxes--probably will get a big return this year too!) and I was a little curious. I haven't had a chance to do very extensive searches of forums, but I've glanced at reviews of various monitors. I do like to play games (such as Team Fortress 2, played Bioshock, but also enjoy racing games) but only casually. Regardless of the input delay the 215TW had (~47ms average? I can't remember where I saw that), I actually have done extremely well in first person shooters with that monitor.

I don't think it has hampered me one bit (and nothing improved drastically when using the L227WTG in games), so I've decided to go for another non-TN monitor. I don't just game on here, but I enjoy movies and also dabble in video/graphic design. I am, like probably many others in here, in the IT field and my photo work is nowhere near color critical. So, before someone talks of the lack of color accuracy of a wide-gamut monitor to me, just know that I really do not care at all about that (the video/photo work is neither for a job nor very serious work). I really enjoyed watching movies on that Samsung and don't really like it on the TN panels I've seen at other peoples' houses or my own (though it was hampered by the backlight problem).

So, I originally was thinking of HP's 22" S-PVA monitor, but it appears that a lot of people (some that I know, as well) have had some big issues with that screen, so that is out of the question.

Hmm which big issues do you mean? I was actually considering recommending that soon, just don't know for sure. The Lenovo L220X is another option though I haven't seen it "in stock" for sure anywhere.

I was thinking of a good 24" screen like the LP2475w because of the H-IPS panel it uses, but also on my list was Dell's 2408WFP. Yes, I will be willing to pay for the LP2475w or the 2408WFP but no, I'm not going to go higher than that. Should this be a hands-down decision to go for the LP2475w if I am willing to pay for it, or is this a toss-up? I had no issues with the high input lag on the 215TW, but I was told that it is much worse on the 2408WFP so maybe I should stay away from that. Plus, there would be no color shift with the 2475W like on my 215TW, so maybe I should choose that instead. Sorry if this answer is obvious to some of you, but I just don't have the time right now to do some in depth research to break my indecision. I'm assuming, however, that it would be better to go with an H-IPS panel over an S-PVA. Is this accurate? Looks like that is probably the best deal, LP2475W. Thanks for your thoughts on this matter!

Yeah I would try the HP. The only thing is the HP's color uniformity issue but hopefully this is under control. I was wanting to keep track of this problem.....

xtknight
01-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Now I am wondering if I should go with three NEC LCD2090UXi or just one of those for the center and two other ones for other tasks such as video and faster responses. Seems all monitors have some sort of trade off. Compared to CRT anyway. =)

Well the LCD2090UXi is actually the one with the good response so why not just get three?

Originally posted by: you2
Are there any 19 or 20 inch monitors you would recommend for the multi-media category. I checked the first page and the only monitor I saw listed was the hp l2065 (which I am going to return). My sample of this monitor was horrible due to lower right hand corner being very bright. Since I've read so many bad reviews about hp service (recent reviews) I've decided to drop this model from consideration (also a few others noted the same issue).

I'm not that picky but playing witcher (which uses dark colours and paint that corner dark) and watching movies at night in a well light room were rather unenjoyable due to this issue. I stress these points to explain the issue clearly - i.e, the normal desk top you had to look to see it. During the day it was less noticable (sun light is much brighter than my 300 watt torch lamp - which is much brighter than most lamps folks use).
--
I would prefer to stick with a 4:3 monitor though would consider 20 or 22 inch 1980x1200 (not 1080p). Since I'm dropping the ips requirement I would think I could find something less expensive than the dell 2007fp. The benq 22inch seems tempting but it is widescreen and 1080p.

I guess I'm a bit odd since most folks oogle over widescreen. I noticed the westinghouse 32 inch 1080P for $269 which is oh so tempting 'cept that it is way too big for my environment. I really would prefer something in the 19/20 inch range - preferably 4:3 and solid blacks (even if it is not ips) :)

anyways hopefully something exist for weird people like me :)

Hmmm it's hard to say. I would have said the HP LP2275w, but apparently some folks don't like this screen either. Well prad gave it 'very good', and TFT Central liked it. And of course you have already had one bad experience with HP.

Getting an LCD that produces dark colors well is very difficult. Almost all of them have bleed that ruin the dark colors, even $1000 ones. So you might consider that this issue was not unique to the LP2065. Consider if LCDs are for you at all? (when LED ones with local dimming tech become more affordable, the black problem might somewhat be remedied.)

xtknight
01-10-2009, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by: GZeus
Hmmm...well I guess I will give my own review after mine arrives.....patience is not one of my virtues ;)

OK. I will be anxious to hear your thoughts about it. Since your primary use is gaming, the choice of a TN panel was not a bad idea.

deathBOB
01-10-2009, 03:30 PM
Mwave has a debranded 22-inch HP on sale today for $149:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/vie....asp?scriteria=AA74780 (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec_v2.asp?scriteria=AA74780)

Does anyone have experience with these kind of sales?

you2
01-10-2009, 06:33 PM
Yea -- at work we use the 24 inch dell (probably wfp) and it is actually quite good and well uniform. this is actually the second one I've used from dell and both have been quite good - unfortunately it is widescreen and 24 inch - if i simply cannot find a 19 inch or 20 inch I guess this might be my best bet.


Kind of disappointment. My old 2001 dell didn't have the bleed problem. It did not have the rich blacks my sister had (probably different panel) but it was at least uniform. My samsung tv is also quite nice with uniformity - the hp was just really bad.

if the hp had not had the problem in the lower right corner it would have been fine. The other three corners has a bit of unevenness but nothing major - just the right corner was very poor. It also had fairly good blacks.
















Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Now I am wondering if I should go with three NEC LCD2090UXi or just one of those for the center and two other ones for other tasks such as video and faster responses. Seems all monitors have some sort of trade off. Compared to CRT anyway. =)

Well the LCD2090UXi is actually the one with the good response so why not just get three?

Originally posted by: you2
Are there any 19 or 20 inch monitors you would recommend for the multi-media category. I checked the first page and the only monitor I saw listed was the hp l2065 (which I am going to return). My sample of this monitor was horrible due to lower right hand corner being very bright. Since I've read so many bad reviews about hp service (recent reviews) I've decided to drop this model from consideration (also a few others noted the same issue).

I'm not that picky but playing witcher (which uses dark colours and paint that corner dark) and watching movies at night in a well light room were rather unenjoyable due to this issue. I stress these points to explain the issue clearly - i.e, the normal desk top you had to look to see it. During the day it was less noticable (sun light is much brighter than my 300 watt torch lamp - which is much brighter than most lamps folks use).
--
I would prefer to stick with a 4:3 monitor though would consider 20 or 22 inch 1980x1200 (not 1080p). Since I'm dropping the ips requirement I would think I could find something less expensive than the dell 2007fp. The benq 22inch seems tempting but it is widescreen and 1080p.

I guess I'm a bit odd since most folks oogle over widescreen. I noticed the westinghouse 32 inch 1080P for $269 which is oh so tempting 'cept that it is way too big for my environment. I really would prefer something in the 19/20 inch range - preferably 4:3 and solid blacks (even if it is not ips) :)

anyways hopefully something exist for weird people like me :)

Hmmm it's hard to say. I would have said the HP LP2275w, but apparently some folks don't like this screen either. Well prad gave it 'very good', and TFT Central liked it. And of course you have already had one bad experience with HP.

Getting an LCD that produces dark colors well is very difficult. Almost all of them have bleed that ruin the dark colors, even $1000 ones. So you might consider that this issue was not unique to the LP2065. Consider if LCDs are for you at all? (when LED ones with local dimming tech become more affordable, the black problem might somewhat be remedied.)

xtknight
01-10-2009, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by: Exclusive
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

That's good to hear. I will try and find a source for this and fix the input lag measurement in the OP.

gorobei
01-11-2009, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Exclusive
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

That's good to hear. I will try and find a source for this and fix the input lag measurement in the OP.

I have the A01 2408wfp. a cursory runthru of the lagom tests, shows anywhere from 25-60ms lag on the quick response times(grey tones cycling squares with squares). some are close to -10, most are around -25, and one or two in the -60 range of color shift.

i have some contract work due next week so i haven't gotten around to breaking out my digital camera or crt for the ghosting or input lag test. I'm working through the weekend and should finish up next week. i'll post some pics of the tests then.

Ardan
01-11-2009, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Hmm which big issues do you mean? I was actually considering recommending that soon, just don't know for sure. The Lenovo L220X is another option though I haven't seen it "in stock" for sure anywhere.


Well a friend of mine had one but returned it because of some green stripes when he used the DVI connection. He later pointed me to youtube, where a search reveals people showing videos of problems with their LP2275w screens, where the most commonplace issue is the interference on the screen (seems to be two green horizontal bands like in my friend's case). I did some looking around, and I saw that both prad and TFT Central mentioned buzzing caused by the backlight inverter that their review samples had. However, people in forums (like Hardforum) have said that HP reportedly fixed that problem. Also, he received a replacement monitor that has no interference on it.

I don't know if TFT Central did, but I saw that prad's review pointed out that they have also had people post in their forums of incidents involving troubles starting up the monitor from sleep mode. Someone has also posted a video demonstrating this on youtube, it appears. I lost the links, but a search of the model doesn't yield a large group of results, so it shouldn't be hard to find. In my search for a monitor, I also saw on newegg that it gets quite the mixed bag of reviews from people, too. However, one of them points out that his replacement screen has had zero problems, though still takes about 30 seconds to come back from sleep mode. A quick look at HP's support forums shows the multitude of people having the same problems with the blue or green lines on the monitor, like this thread (http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1275183), for example.

I also was unsure about the input lag. I noticed that prad describes it as a 'constant' 50ms, but someone in hardforum's displays section and TFT Central measured the average as being 25ms. Digitalversus gets an average of 39 as well. So, I wasn't sure if prad maybe had a bad screen or what, because their number is much higher than 3 other sources. If it really is closer to the 25ms they find, or even the 39ms that digitalversus seems to get, then I would be willing to go for it because it seems to get very good reviews in every other aspect (everyone has told me that they can't find any real backlight bleed). I thought that maybe it would be safer to just go with the H-IPS screen instead because I never heard anything major about that one (other than what you listed on here). Plus, it looks like it has quite a few more connectivity options, but do you know if it does 1:1? I wasn't sure about that one, but it looks like the 2275w does it.

I am glad to hear that people aren't having those issues with replacement models, and of HP fixing the buzzing problem (reportedly). I think it would be a very good deal if that is the case. Unless the color uniformity issue you talk of is a major issue that I'd notice immediately, I'd feel more confident buying that over the LP2275w at this time, because I haven't heard of anybody listing multiple problems like the 2275w. Still, I hope they have that issue under control at this point, but I don't know anyone with it and I haven't searched extensively on that problem to figure that out for myself. Either way, if I had to return a monitor to HP, it wouldn't leave me without a screen to use so I probably would be okay either way.

Paladin
01-13-2009, 12:23 PM
Does anyone know if the HP 2475w comes with a DVI cable? I just ordered it from Provantage, but I can't find info anywhere on the package contents.

Thanks.

xtknight
01-13-2009, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by: HardwareSearcher
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: GoofyFoot
Regarding text and eyestrain, I found the following posting on Hardforum by Snowdog. Looks like 10e is familiar with the Benq G2400, although I have no idea if it's the same panel as the current G2400WD or G2400WAD. Do Snowdog's recommendations make sense to those of you who might have a better sense of the differences in these 24" and larger displays? Thanks.

From Snowdog's posting in the "best monitor to minimize eye strain - text based work" thread on Hardforum:

...

Recommendations: (Controlled brightness, Non VA, Less sparkly, non-neon):

Dim to fairly bright environment: Benq G2400 (nice low powered back light) <$400
Fairly bright to very bright environment: NEC 2490 (more powerful back light ) >$1000

I like these recommendations as well...

Do you still consider the GD2400WD the best (or did you even back then?) when it comes to being easy on the eyes? I am not in a "very bright" environment as I either only have a window open or the ceiling light on in my dorm, but not in a super-bright office environment. Right now I am still on a 17" Gateway flat-screen CRT(possibly originally emachines but rebranded when gateway bought them...it is a "786n"). The dot pitch is 0.25 and I am running at 1024x768 and I often have to lean forward to read good (I wear glasses). So I think only a 22" or 24" would be acceptable, with their larger dot pitches. I would prefer a 22", but it seems, after reading a lot of eyestrain posts in this thread, the GD2400WD has advantages in the eyestrain area that potentially outweighs the slightly larger dot pitch of 22"s?

Any updated or confirmed thoughts on monitors for the ease-on-eyes priority?

Sorry for the long wait...new semester.

Ease on the eyes depends primarily on brightness, not panel type. You'll hear contradictory statements on which panel types are the best, and even I may contradict myself at times on that one. IPS may have screen door, MVA may have blurriness, TN may have bad viewing angles, and so on...

Find a lower brightness 22" TN (avoid ASUS 22", they tend to be bright), or go with the G2400WD. I think that the 22" would be more comfortable on the eyes because the text is bigger.

xtknight
01-13-2009, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by: dfedders
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: dfedders
Originally posted by: xtknight
[It does depend on your use. You might be able to stomach a TN for any type of gaming. But if gradients on the screen annoy you, even basic use like browsing the web and seeing a gradient when there's supposed to be a solid color might get really annoying. Unless gaming is a huge thing for you, I'd always recommend a Dell 2408WFP or HP LP2475w before the G2400W, even though the latter is quite nice for a TN panel.
Are the gradients noticable when browsing the web or just general usage with the G2400WD? My wife has an older 19" LCD, and the gradients drive me nuts on it, so I've kept my CRT around. I was interested in the G2400WD, but not sure how bad the gradients look on it compared to an IPS or MVA. I would say that I am 50% gaming and 50% general use.



If gradients on a 19" TN drive you nuts, then you should probably avoid a 24" TN.

I haven't used a 24" TN on a daily basis but I can tell you at least one very forgiving review of the Samsung 245BW on YouTube mentioned that gradients could be quite distracting or annoying, and that this was the primary problem with the LCD.
Just to clarify, I was refering to dithering of colors instead of a smooth transition. I may have confused dithering and gradients in the context of LCDs. When I purchased a 19" LCD previously, it said it supported 16.7 million colors when it obviously didn't come close and the dithering was horrible. Does the same apply for dithering with the G2400WD?



I see. Well all TNs (and many VA/IPS panels) dither.

If I had to guess, the G2400WD (a rather recent model) employs a newer and largely unobtrusive dithering method. In fact, I'm almost sure of that. But you could ask an owner, say on HardForum.

There's very few instances where I can see dithering on my TN L227WT.

ryedizzel
01-13-2009, 10:29 PM
Hey xtknight,

Have you heard anything about the 20" Acer X203H? I searched this thread but did not find any posts. However Newegg has it on sale for $130 with free shipping (using promo code: EMCABBDDB). Here is a link with the specs:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009158 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009158)

P.S. I would mostly use it for Photoshop, but also occasional gaming.

xtknight
01-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by: Zap
I just got the Acer Ferrari F-22 monitor, which is a 22" widescreen with X-Brite (Acer's name for glossy screen). Maybe xtknight can add it to the OP?

Ya I'll have to investigate it a bit. Can you give me some idea of how you like it though?

10e
01-14-2009, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Exclusive
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

That's good to hear. I will try and find a source for this and fix the input lag measurement in the OP.

Here you go:

http://www.hardforum.com/showp...32973874&postcount=982 (http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032973874&postcount=982)

Not completely definitive, but a good guideline. Originally it was listed as being close to 4 frames (63ms avg or so), but it's down by at least a frame now, which is a little better.

Xed
01-14-2009, 02:24 PM
Another thumbs up for the Planar px2611w. Good colors out of the box, no dead or stuck pixels, uniform backlight, great for gaming. The only cons imo are the limited height adjustment and the 4x1 osd controls (which aren't completely awful just takes some getting used to)

Ingenuitor
01-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Ok now to add more confusion to the choices. Why not just this one Samsung LN52A850 52-Inch 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV. since I would have a 60" span anyways, why not just one unit. Would this work for my needs. May even save me some money from the way it looks. =)

Stg-Flame
01-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Since I am having so much trouble with my 22" Hanns G monitor, I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good quality gaming monitor. Glossy LCD preferably and no smaller than 22". Only five months I have had this and it is already dieing on me (massive color fluxuations/vertical lines). I am willing to spend upwards of $400 on it. Also, the monitor will dual-purpose as my TV for video games (X360 as of now, but would prefer if I could play all consoles on it).

The thing I hate most is that when it comes to building a PC, I can pick out the parts off the top of my head for almost any given budget; but when it comes to monitors, I am clueless.

palladium
01-14-2009, 09:57 PM
I was thinking of a good 24" screen like the LP2475w because of the H-IPS panel it uses, but also on my list was Dell's 2408WFP. Yes, I will be willing to pay for the LP2475w or the 2408WFP but no, I'm not going to go higher than that. Should this be a hands-down decision to go for the LP2475w if I am willing to pay for it, or is this a toss-up? I had no issues with the high input lag on the 215TW, but I was told that it is much worse on the 2408WFP so maybe I should stay away from that. Plus, there would be no color shift with the 2475W like on my 215TW, so maybe I should choose that instead. Sorry if this answer is obvious to some of you, but I just don't have the time right now to do some in depth research to break my indecision. I'm assuming, however, that it would be better to go with an H-IPS panel over an S-PVA. Is this accurate? Looks like that is probably the best deal, LP2475W. Thanks for your thoughts on this matter!

Yeah I would try the HP. The only thing is the HP's color uniformity issue but hopefully this is under control. I was wanting to keep track of this problem.....

I just bought a LP2475w about a week ago ( in New Zealand) and I didn't notice any discoloration on the sides . Having said that, I do notice some green/yellow 'smear' while viewing black text on a white background ( such as this page) or white text on a black background ( sorry can't describe it well). My 4 year old 15" Dell ( presumably a TN) does not have this. Don't know if this is a QC issue....

Also, HDCP isn't really mentioned in the specs, but I think it's safe to assume that all monitors with HDMI should be HDCP capable. Don't have a blu-ray drive to test this out.

var89
01-15-2009, 08:29 AM
Hello Everyone,

I'm looking to get a LCD TV. I have options of S-PVA panel with around 2000:1 contrast ration. The other option is IPS panel based Hitachi/Panasonic panel with contrast 1000:1.
I don't understand which one will be better. Some say contrast ratio is very important, some say panel is important.
I'm looking for good color accuracy and vivid colors.
Can anyone guide me on this.

var

brencat
01-16-2009, 02:55 AM
Well, my BenQ V2400W finally arrived today. As some of you know, this is my first LCD -- and I am thrilled -- what a beautiful monitor for a TN! No dead or stuck pixels, and only some very modest backlight bleed along the bottom edge heading toward the right corner. Only noticeable with lights in room off and screen saver running.

This monitor has really great blacks for a TN. For something I bought sight unseen, I have to say I am very impressed! After messing around with several different settings I picked up around the web, here is what I've settled on (for now):

Picture Mode: Standard
Brightness: 55
Contrast: 48
Red: 98
Green: 93
Blue: 82
Gamma lowered in NV control panel to 43% (default is 50%)

I also tried sRGB picture mode with the same Brightness, Contrast, and Gamma settings as above, and while the image was slightly easier on my eyes, it was also less accurate IMO b/c that mode introduced more yellow into the picture than I care for, making greys look more taupe/olive color. In addition, banding was more noticeable in sRGB mode than with the above custom settings. However, I may go back again for further tweaking.

Played Left for Dead @ 1920 x 1200 with 4xAA/4xAF and everything else maxed with the card in my sig and it ran smooth as butter. Note that I had to turn AMA on while gaming. There is a BIG difference and some very noticeable lag with it off (at least to me, coming from a CRT). Will try COD4 and some other shooters tomorrow.

A special thanks goes to xtknight for his advice and selection of the V2400W/G2400WD as the #1 gaming pick in 24" . IMO, it's well deserved since this monitor easily outclasses the Samsung T240, LG 2452T-TF, HP 2408h, and Gateway FHD2401 -- all of which I got to see and use before deciding on this BenQ. However, I'll note that the LG 2452T-TF does have better viewing angles than the BenQ.

Lastly, thanks to 10e for the base color profile (which I tweaked to get the settings I'm using at the moment).

JETninja
01-16-2009, 03:54 PM
Cool to see this thread still alive and kicking! Great job xtknight! Stiil love my several year old LG 19".

Came here to help a friend so I pointed him to this thread, but I am curious, the latest Budget & Mid Price PC Building Guides here mention some new 21.5" 1080P panels that go for around $200 IIRC. Would love to see some data on them and know how they hold up for gaming and general multimedia. Don't really watch movies on the PC (Have a 61" 1080P LcOS JVC for that) but I love to game, and am doing a lot more Picture viewing and processing since I got my DSLR last Summer. Hope to build a new PC in the next few months and I'll be looking for a new quality widescreen affordible monitor to go with it....

Cheers!

xtknight
01-16-2009, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by: Ardan
Originally posted by: xtknight
Hmm which big issues do you mean? I was actually considering recommending that soon, just don't know for sure. The Lenovo L220X is another option though I haven't seen it "in stock" for sure anywhere.


Well a friend of mine had one but returned it because of some green stripes when he used the DVI connection. He later pointed me to youtube, where a search reveals people showing videos of problems with their LP2275w screens, where the most commonplace issue is the interference on the screen (seems to be two green horizontal bands like in my friend's case). I did some looking around, and I saw that both prad and TFT Central mentioned buzzing caused by the backlight inverter that their review samples had. However, people in forums (like Hardforum) have said that HP reportedly fixed that problem. Also, he received a replacement monitor that has no interference on it.

I don't know if TFT Central did, but I saw that prad's review pointed out that they have also had people post in their forums of incidents involving troubles starting up the monitor from sleep mode. Someone has also posted a video demonstrating this on youtube, it appears. I lost the links, but a search of the model doesn't yield a large group of results, so it shouldn't be hard to find. In my search for a monitor, I also saw on newegg that it gets quite the mixed bag of reviews from people, too. However, one of them points out that his replacement screen has had zero problems, though still takes about 30 seconds to come back from sleep mode. A quick look at HP's support forums shows the multitude of people having the same problems with the blue or green lines on the monitor, like this thread (http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1275183), for example.

I also was unsure about the input lag. I noticed that prad describes it as a 'constant' 50ms, but someone in hardforum's displays section and TFT Central measured the average as being 25ms. Digitalversus gets an average of 39 as well. So, I wasn't sure if prad maybe had a bad screen or what, because their number is much higher than 3 other sources. If it really is closer to the 25ms they find, or even the 39ms that digitalversus seems to get, then I would be willing to go for it because it seems to get very good reviews in every other aspect (everyone has told me that they can't find any real backlight bleed). I thought that maybe it would be safer to just go with the H-IPS screen instead because I never heard anything major about that one (other than what you listed on here). Plus, it looks like it has quite a few more connectivity options, but do you know if it does 1:1? I wasn't sure about that one, but it looks like the 2275w does it.

I am glad to hear that people aren't having those issues with replacement models, and of HP fixing the buzzing problem (reportedly). I think it would be a very good deal if that is the case. Unless the color uniformity issue you talk of is a major issue that I'd notice immediately, I'd feel more confident buying that over the LP2275w at this time, because I haven't heard of anybody listing multiple problems like the 2275w. Still, I hope they have that issue under control at this point, but I don't know anyone with it and I haven't searched extensively on that problem to figure that out for myself. Either way, if I had to return a monitor to HP, it wouldn't leave me without a screen to use so I probably would be okay either way.

I don't know about 1:1. But anyway yeah I guess the LP2275w may have a couple issues. Maybe later batches will fix the issues.

Originally posted by: ryedizzel
Hey xtknight,

Have you heard anything about the 20" Acer X203H? I searched this thread but did not find any posts. However Newegg has it on sale for $130 with free shipping (using promo code: EMCABBDDB). Here is a link with the specs:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009158 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009158)

P.S. I would mostly use it for Photoshop, but also occasional gaming.

Unfortunately I haven't. Sorry.

Originally posted by: 10e
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Exclusive
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

That's good to hear. I will try and find a source for this and fix the input lag measurement in the OP.

Here you go:

http://www.hardforum.com/showp...32973874&postcount=982 (http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032973874&postcount=982)

Not completely definitive, but a good guideline. Originally it was listed as being close to 4 frames (63ms avg or so), but it's down by at least a frame now, which is a little better.

Hmm yea looks like about 3 frames of lag...

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Ok now to add more confusion to the choices. Why not just this one Samsung LN52A850 52-Inch 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV. since I would have a 60" span anyways, why not just one unit. Would this work for my needs. May even save me some money from the way it looks. =)

I don't think that's a good idea. TVs very often have oversaturated and harsh colors and the pixels are huge for computer use. It's not even as high resolution and the 120Hz will probably give you a headache or motion sickness up close.

xtknight
01-16-2009, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
Since I am having so much trouble with my 22" Hanns G monitor, I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good quality gaming monitor. Glossy LCD preferably and no smaller than 22". Only five months I have had this and it is already dieing on me (massive color fluxuations/vertical lines). I am willing to spend upwards of $400 on it. Also, the monitor will dual-purpose as my TV for video games (X360 as of now, but would prefer if I could play all consoles on it).

The thing I hate most is that when it comes to building a PC, I can pick out the parts off the top of my head for almost any given budget; but when it comes to monitors, I am clueless.

I recommend an LG L227WTG-PF definitely.

Originally posted by: var89
Hello Everyone,

I'm looking to get a LCD TV. I have options of S-PVA panel with around 2000:1 contrast ration. The other option is IPS panel based Hitachi/Panasonic panel with contrast 1000:1.
I don't understand which one will be better. Some say contrast ratio is very important, some say panel is important.
I'm looking for good color accuracy and vivid colors.
Can anyone guide me on this.

var

I don't know really. I do know that S-PVAs produce a really good high contrast picture and the gray shift is really not noticeable on big TVs when you're watching at a distance. VAs also have more brightness at different angles, even if IPS panels are slightly more accurate. I view VAs as TV panels more than IPS. IPS is sort of like a reference, lower contrast monitor, but not exactly a bright and vivid TV.

That said, you might really prefer the IPS. So I can't tell you. If it were me, I would get the IPS just because I do care about color accuracy. And I may have it calibrated as well. I think that most people may even prefer an uncalibrated VA panel just for the contrast. And maybe I would too. I don't think I've seen an IPS TV before. What I'm saying is that if you gave me a blind test I might pick the VA even if I bought the IPS. Having "color accuracy" is a very niche and obsessive concern, which maybe is one of my faults. It's just psychological. You think the panel is better just because it's called IPS...

With monitors, it's different. The lower contrast of IPS is a lot easier to bear and the viewing angles are very easily noticeable up close. IPS does not inherently have more color accuracy than a VA panel. Also, it probably doesn't have more accuracy than a TN panel. It is the viewing angles and properties of these panels ("color shift") that determine how accurate their colors are in actual use. For VA and IPS at a long viewing range away, this difference is [edit: can be] quite insignificant. All 'VA' and 'IPS' really are is a different arrangement of the crystals, causing slightly different black level, viewing angle, and transition speed. Samsung PVA panels do have a lower black level because they have no liquid crystal protrusion (no light leak).

Samsung's high-contrast VA, LED-backlit panels w/ local dimming are very attractive to me at this point. I'm not sure if there is similar technology in IPS panels, which is one reason I might settle for a VA instead.

xtknight
01-16-2009, 05:20 PM
clandren has let us know about a new 22" IPS (Dell 2209WA): http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2267607&enterthread=y (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2267607&enterthread=y)

Unfortunately it's not available in the North America yet so won't be going on the list. But, let's hope it is available here eventually. There may also be other new 22" IPS monitors coming out for purposes of competition.

Stg-Flame
01-17-2009, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
Since I am having so much trouble with my 22" Hanns G monitor, I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good quality gaming monitor. Glossy LCD preferably and no smaller than 22". Only five months I have had this and it is already dieing on me (massive color fluxuations/vertical lines). I am willing to spend upwards of $400 on it. Also, the monitor will dual-purpose as my TV for video games (X360 as of now, but would prefer if I could play all consoles on it).

The thing I hate most is that when it comes to building a PC, I can pick out the parts off the top of my head for almost any given budget; but when it comes to monitors, I am clueless.

I recommend an LG L227WTG-PF definitely.

Why this one? It seems you have a vast knowledge of monitors, but I would also like to know why this one would be best for high-end, fast-paced gaming as opposed to others. Also, between a 22" and a 24", which would you recommend?

BassBomb
01-17-2009, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
Since I am having so much trouble with my 22" Hanns G monitor, I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good quality gaming monitor. Glossy LCD preferably and no smaller than 22". Only five months I have had this and it is already dieing on me (massive color fluxuations/vertical lines). I am willing to spend upwards of $400 on it. Also, the monitor will dual-purpose as my TV for video games (X360 as of now, but would prefer if I could play all consoles on it).

The thing I hate most is that when it comes to building a PC, I can pick out the parts off the top of my head for almost any given budget; but when it comes to monitors, I am clueless.

I recommend an LG L227WTG-PF definitely.

Why this one? It seems you have a vast knowledge of monitors, but I would also like to know why this one would be best for high-end, fast-paced gaming as opposed to others. Also, between a 22" and a 24", which would you recommend?

It has almost no input lag, and is one of the fastest panels around

ViRGE
01-17-2009, 01:58 PM
This is going to sound dumb, but here it goes: What do you guys use to clean your LCD monitors? I have a matte LCD2070NX that I've kept impeccable care of with not a single blemish... until today when I sneezed on it.:( I don't want to screw up the anti-glare coating, so I'm hesitant to touch it with anything out of fear that I'll wipe the coating off. What's the Official and Approved? way to clean a matte display?

BassBomb
01-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by: ViRGE
This is going to sound dumb, but here it goes: What do you guys use to clean your LCD monitors? I have a matte LCD2070NX that I've kept impeccable care of with not a single blemish... until today when I sneezed on it.:( I don't want to screw up the anti-glare coating, so I'm hesitant to touch it with anything out of fear that I'll wipe the coating off. What's the Official and Approved? way to clean a matte display?

A small dab of water, wipe it with a clean cloth, then immediately dry it with a seperate clean cloth.
This works wonders for me (I have glossy coat though). Sometimes if I am too slow the streaks from water remain and I have to polish them out.

Distilled water is preferred to regular water

xtknight
01-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
Since I am having so much trouble with my 22" Hanns G monitor, I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good quality gaming monitor. Glossy LCD preferably and no smaller than 22". Only five months I have had this and it is already dieing on me (massive color fluxuations/vertical lines). I am willing to spend upwards of $400 on it. Also, the monitor will dual-purpose as my TV for video games (X360 as of now, but would prefer if I could play all consoles on it).

The thing I hate most is that when it comes to building a PC, I can pick out the parts off the top of my head for almost any given budget; but when it comes to monitors, I am clueless.

I recommend an LG L227WTG-PF definitely.

Why this one? It seems you have a vast knowledge of monitors, but I would also like to know why this one would be best for high-end, fast-paced gaming as opposed to others. Also, between a 22" and a 24", which would you recommend?

Well just so you know I didn't pull something out of my hat, look at the #1 LCD I recommend for gaming. And I am also typing on one of them now. :)

It fits your criteria of 22" and glossy, as well, which I suppose is an added bonus in this market with a limited selection of all-around solid LCD monitors. It has one of the fastest response times for gaming too.

I don't think another 24" panel can compare, except maybe something expensive like the HP LP2475w.

var89
01-18-2009, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight



I don't know really. I do know that S-PVAs produce a really good high contrast picture and the gray shift is really not noticeable on big TVs when you're watching at a distance. VAs also have more brightness at different angles, even if IPS panels are slightly more accurate. I view VAs as TV panels more than IPS. IPS is sort of like a reference, lower contrast monitor, but not exactly a bright and vivid TV.

That said, you might really prefer the IPS. So I can't tell you. If it were me, I would get the IPS just because I do care about color accuracy. And I may have it calibrated as well. I think that most people may even prefer an uncalibrated VA panel just for the contrast. And maybe I would too. I don't think I've seen an IPS TV before. What I'm saying is that if you gave me a blind test I might pick the VA even if I bought the IPS. Having "color accuracy" is a very niche and obsessive concern, which maybe is one of my faults. It's just psychological. You think the panel is better just because it's called IPS...

With monitors, it's different. The lower contrast of IPS is a lot easier to bear and the viewing angles are very easily noticeable up close. IPS does not inherently have more color accuracy than a VA panel. Also, it probably doesn't have more accuracy than a TN panel. It is the viewing angles and properties of these panels ("color shift") that determine how accurate their colors are in actual use. For VA and IPS at a long viewing range away, this difference is [edit: can be] quite insignificant. All 'VA' and 'IPS' really are is a different arrangement of the crystals, causing slightly different black level, viewing angle, and transition speed. Samsung PVA panels do have a lower black level because they have no liquid crystal protrusion (no light leak).

Samsung's high-contrast VA, LED-backlit panels w/ local dimming are very attractive to me at this point. I'm not sure if there is similar technology in IPS panels, which is one reason I might settle for a VA instead.

thanks for your reply.
Well at this point in time Panasonic is selling IPS alpha base Tv's at pretty good prices. I think they are IPS-Pro panels, which are the latest.
Samsung and Sony are selling S-PVA panels.

I did have some research done and founfd S-PVA is better for me rather than Panasonic or Hitachi displays which use S-IPS and IPS-pro.

One more question is that can I use this Panasonic IPS based TV as my Monitor as I'm looking to replace my CRT. Panasonic is selling them at attractive prices.

var

Ardan
01-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Upon seeing that Viewsonic has a 120Hz LCD coming out, as well as Samsung, I think that maybe I will wait to see what reviews of those say. I think those look pretty nice to me, and I'm willing to buy it instead of the 2475W to save money (I don't *need* the LP2475w, just never liked my TN options til now) if they are nice with a higher refresh rate (specs show the vertical refresh rate as 50~120...and even if it wasn't a true 120Hz rate, I still would want to see reviews). I also saw that Dell is coming out with a line of LED-backlit screens too, which caught my eye. It all looks very interesting and perhaps I will wait to see how they turn out in reviews :). I'm definitely not going to just brush them off as nonsense like some people do in forums online, because I've never personally used it, heh. If it turns out that they're just merely average, I will get the LP2475w, but that can change if they get great reviews. Considering I do enjoy gaming and i also like watching movies on here, I think I definitely should wait to see how reviews shape up. After all, I would love to save some $$$ if the screen is worth it, and I can afford to wait because my screen isn't broken. :)

xtknight
01-18-2009, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by: JETninja
Cool to see this thread still alive and kicking! Great job xtknight! Stiil love my several year old LG 19".

Good to hear. :)

Came here to help a friend so I pointed him to this thread, but I am curious, the latest Budget & Mid Price PC Building Guides here mention some new 21.5" 1080P panels that go for around $200 IIRC. Would love to see some data on them and know how they hold up for gaming and general multimedia. Don't really watch movies on the PC (Have a 61" 1080P LcOS JVC for that) but I love to game, and am doing a lot more Picture viewing and processing since I got my DSLR last Summer. Hope to build a new PC in the next few months and I'll be looking for a new quality widescreen affordible monitor to go with it....

Cheers!

I'm not too familiar with these panels. No reviews that I can tell.

These are still TN panels so they won't really help you much with photo processing. Have you considered an S-PVA panel like the Lenovo 22" or maybe the HP LP2275w? Hmm, the HP may have a couple issues, although the benefits may outweigh the disadvantages. A poster here commented on the cons of the LP2275w (22") just a few posts ago. It depends how much you want to spend really. The HP LP2475w (24") is the creme de la creme.

xtknight
01-18-2009, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by: ViRGE
This is going to sound dumb, but here it goes: What do you guys use to clean your LCD monitors? I have a matte LCD2070NX that I've kept impeccable care of with not a single blemish... until today when I sneezed on it.:( I don't want to screw up the anti-glare coating, so I'm hesitant to touch it with anything out of fear that I'll wipe the coating off. What's the Official and Approved? way to clean a matte display?

Sometimes I just wipe it with my shirt. Really. :)

Just use water, that's more than enough to clean off snot and liquid...stuff..

If you're paranoid you can try rubbing alcohol. I wouldn't recommend using alcohol unless something terrible happened to your LCD, because it can corrode the surface over time.

xtknight
01-18-2009, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by: var89
Originally posted by: xtknight



I don't know really. I do know that S-PVAs produce a really good high contrast picture and the gray shift is really not noticeable on big TVs when you're watching at a distance. VAs also have more brightness at different angles, even if IPS panels are slightly more accurate. I view VAs as TV panels more than IPS. IPS is sort of like a reference, lower contrast monitor, but not exactly a bright and vivid TV.

That said, you might really prefer the IPS. So I can't tell you. If it were me, I would get the IPS just because I do care about color accuracy. And I may have it calibrated as well. I think that most people may even prefer an uncalibrated VA panel just for the contrast. And maybe I would too. I don't think I've seen an IPS TV before. What I'm saying is that if you gave me a blind test I might pick the VA even if I bought the IPS. Having "color accuracy" is a very niche and obsessive concern, which maybe is one of my faults. It's just psychological. You think the panel is better just because it's called IPS...

With monitors, it's different. The lower contrast of IPS is a lot easier to bear and the viewing angles are very easily noticeable up close. IPS does not inherently have more color accuracy than a VA panel. Also, it probably doesn't have more accuracy than a TN panel. It is the viewing angles and properties of these panels ("color shift") that determine how accurate their colors are in actual use. For VA and IPS at a long viewing range away, this difference is [edit: can be] quite insignificant. All 'VA' and 'IPS' really are is a different arrangement of the crystals, causing slightly different black level, viewing angle, and transition speed. Samsung PVA panels do have a lower black level because they have no liquid crystal protrusion (no light leak).

Samsung's high-contrast VA, LED-backlit panels w/ local dimming are very attractive to me at this point. I'm not sure if there is similar technology in IPS panels, which is one reason I might settle for a VA instead.

thanks for your reply.
Well at this point in time Panasonic is selling IPS alpha base Tv's at pretty good prices. I think they are IPS-Pro panels, which are the latest.
Samsung and Sony are selling S-PVA panels.

I did have some research done and founfd S-PVA is better for me rather than Panasonic or Hitachi displays which use S-IPS and IPS-pro.

One more question is that can I use this Panasonic IPS based TV as my Monitor as I'm looking to replace my CRT. Panasonic is selling them at attractive prices.

var




What research exactly led you to that conclusion?

I'm not sure IPS TVs are the cat's meow. And really you shouldn't resort to using a huge-pixeled TV just because it's an IPS panel.

Why not try something like the HP LP2475w? Surely that's around the same price or cheaper than the TVs you're looking at. If you want a photo editing quality monitor you also need a good dot pitch and you can't get that from the bigger TVs.

xtknight
01-18-2009, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by: Ardan
Upon seeing that Viewsonic has a 120Hz LCD coming out, as well as Samsung, I think that maybe I will wait to see what reviews of those say. I think those look pretty nice to me, and I'm willing to buy it instead of the 2475W to save money (I don't *need* the LP2475w, just never liked my TN options til now) if they are nice with a higher refresh rate (specs show the vertical refresh rate as 50~120...and even if it wasn't a true 120Hz rate, I still would want to see reviews). I also saw that Dell is coming out with a line of LED-backlit screens too, which caught my eye. It all looks very interesting and perhaps I will wait to see how they turn out in reviews :). I'm definitely not going to just brush them off as nonsense like some people do in forums online, because I've never personally used it, heh. If it turns out that they're just merely average, I will get the LP2475w, but that can change if they get great reviews. Considering I do enjoy gaming and i also like watching movies on here, I think I definitely should wait to see how reviews shape up. After all, I would love to save some $$$ if the screen is worth it, and I can afford to wait because my screen isn't broken. :)

I'm almost confident you'd be much happier with the LP2475w. New technologies often take time to mature and in the early versions of all these panels you might come across "thrown together" monitors with bad response time control, bad menus, poor compatibility, limited connectivity and ergonomics. You can't say any of those are an issue with the HP. But we will have to see about those new monitors.

Ardan
01-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
I'm almost confident you'd be much happier with the LP2475w. New technologies often take time to mature and in the early versions of all these panels you might come across "thrown together" monitors with bad response time control, bad menus, poor compatibility, limited connectivity and ergonomics. You can't say any of those are an issue with the HP. But we will have to see about those new monitors.

Agreed. I will have to wait regardless and I probably will end up with the LP2475W because you definitely can't go wrong with that. Even though I will no doubt end up with the LP2475W, I can't wait to see reviews of these new screens to see how they turn out. Also, as everyone has pointed out, I hope that 22" IPS-based Dell comes to America because I would absolutely be interested in a 22" IPS Panel :). I'm hopeful since TFT Central had news on January 12th that the 2209WA showed up on Dell's Canadian website. Since I can't really buy anything right now anyways, that sure would be nice to have available when I most likely will be buying a screen (March, or early April). I really like S-PVA panels but I would be lying if I said that I wouldn't prefer to have an IPS panel.

Originally posted by: xtknight
These are still TN panels so they won't really help you much with photo processing. Have you considered an S-PVA panel like the Lenovo 22" or maybe the HP LP2275w? Hmm, the HP may have a couple issues, although the benefits may outweigh the disadvantages. A poster here commented on the cons of the LP2275w (22") just a few posts ago. It depends how much you want to spend really. The HP LP2475w (24") is the creme de la creme.

Yeah, I posted that and it looks like early batches had major problems and I have to say that I have seen those screens in person and they look absolutely outstanding even before the replacements. Both people got replacements in a timely manner from HP and the replacements had no problems. When they were interacting with HP on these matters before sending them back, they were told that they were aware of the problems and were making a concerted effort to fix them. Any complaints on their support forums that I've seen are a month or two old, too. It looks like they have fixed the problem (quality control?).

While I haven't actually used it, it looked to be on-par with my Samsung SyncMaster 215TW in image quality/colors (and you all know that this is a good monitor). It looked even better than mine with video, too, but 50% of that is probably because it didn't have annoying backlight bleed. I don't know if it has gotten worse as my monitor has aged or what, but the bleed from the corners of mine is so annoying that it gets into the picture of wide-screen format DVDs. Neither of them had any problems with that at all even with the bum screens. They've also been able to play games like Bioshock, TF2, etc on them without trouble.

So yeah, if you think about color uniformity, backlight bleed and such, none of them had troubles with that. Furthermore, they could use the VGA connection and it wouldn't cause any visual disturbances (really narrows down HP's problem right there, because everyone said that). So yeah, they must've fixed the issues with it (especially considering their replacements don't making a buzzing sound from the inverter anymore). In fact, if something happens that prevents me from being able to comfortably shell out $600-some for the LP2475w, I probably will consider the LP2275w as one of my alternate options :).

samduhman
01-19-2009, 10:46 AM
What would be a nice replacement for my 22" Samsung 226bw newegg link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096)

It's been a great monitor but I'm ready for something bigger. I would like one that's great for FPS gaming (I can't stand ghosting at all). It can be a 24" if its awesome for gaming and picture looks fantastic but I'd assume Im looking more at the 26" range for a decent upgrade from a 22", no? I would prefer to stay around $300 to $500. If that won't cover it what price range am I looking at so I can start saving?

One additional comment. A 22" is actually a 20" stretched? I don't want a stretched screen this time. I want my pixels tight! ;)

middlepath
01-19-2009, 12:36 PM
I've decided to buy the 2490WUXi but here's a quick question: from which vendor is my best bet in terms of returning the display in the case of dead pixels, etc.? I see that B&H and PC Connection have better pricing than Newegg (which is linked from this thread). Any advice?

Much thanks.

aceO07
01-19-2009, 03:33 PM
Just to update, I bought my HP lp2475w (from Amazon) a couple of weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I got one with green/pink tinting. It's green tinting on the left half of the screen and pink on the right half. The tint gets stronger near the edges. It's noticeable on white, gray backgrounds. Harder to tell on movies or mixed backgrounds. The reds are very pronounced. I also got 1 bright pixel in the middle of the screen.

I'm going to call HP and get it exchanged.

ungco
01-19-2009, 11:24 PM
Hi people, I'm not really in a dire predicament, but I think some advice would be helpful.

Basically, I'm currently running off my laptop (XPS M1710) screen to do all my work and various multimedia activities. I'm studying graphic design and animation, so I guess colour reproduction would be one of the more important (if not most) factor in my purchase of a secondary display - the only problem is budget constraints. I've only got AU$500 to spend on the thing, which is approximately $350US give or take, so I know I won't be able to get the most brilliant display. After reading countless reviews and having measured the costs, I decided upon the BenQ G2400WT (considering it has the versatile stand and similar display to the V2400W). Still haven't bought it yet though, and since then I found out about the Dell 2209WA, which comes with an IPS panel according to the Australian Dell website. Of course, being a new display, reviews are scarce and I'm reticent to just go by the Cnet review.

So, question is, would it be advisable to wait out for more reviews before I decide or just straight out go for one of them? I love the luxury of the large screen and amount of pixels on the BenQ (and after seeing it in person, was rather impressed), but the IPS screen and reported accuracy of colour on the Dell gives me pause.

On top of my studies, I'm also doing a bit of freelance work on the side, so take that as you will. I don't play many games (the one I play most is Solitaire), but do watch a few movies.

Thanks for reading!

Exclusive
01-20-2009, 02:26 AM
Go with an IPS screen if you prefer color over input lag.

var89
01-20-2009, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight


What research exactly led you to that conclusion?

I'm not sure IPS TVs are the cat's meow. And really you shouldn't resort to using a huge-pixeled TV just because it's an IPS panel.

Why not try something like the HP LP2475w? Surely that's around the same price or cheaper than the TVs you're looking at. If you want a photo editing quality monitor you also need a good dot pitch and you can't get that from the bigger TVs.


Well, in that case what is the difference between an LCD TV and a LCD monitor.
If i take let's say 1366 x 768 resolution for '26' inch, that means it has bigger pixels and if i take '22' inch having same resolution means it has smaller pixels. correct me if i'm wrong.

If that is the case then I can't use TV as my Monitor.

ZX81
01-20-2009, 05:02 PM
Any alternative to the LG L227WTG-PF ???

both bestbuy.ca and futureshop.ca are out of stock and the LGs dont seem to be equivalent

Can you recommend another 22" widescreen glossy, preferably with rectangular shape as I'm planning on nesting 4 of them together

thanks

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/...&langid=EN&catid=26175 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=26175)

http://www.futureshop.ca/catal...&langid=EN&catid=25074 (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=25074)

icered
01-21-2009, 02:30 PM
I was planning on getting a Benq E2200 HD Flat panel this weekend(My first transition from a CRT to a flat panel)
Specs are as below:
21.5" viewable
16:9 Aspect Ratio
1920x1080 Native resolution
5ms Response time
DVI-D with hdcp
HDMI port

Benq E2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1368&page=specifications)

While I was at the store I found out there was a cheaper version of the same monitor - the Benq T2200 HD. Its the same as its slightly more expensive brethren minus the HDMI port, the crappy speakers, the Senseye+Photo image tech and possibly the overdrive mechanism(Benq calls its AMA I guess)

Benq T2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1388&page=specifications)

Now the price difference between the two is about $30. My question is whether it is better to go for the cheaper version(the T2200HD which doesn't have the HDMI port)? Reading through forum posts I gather its easy to get an DVI-HDMI adapter if I need to, say connect a PS3/XBOX-360. (I don't own a console right now, but I might after, say 5-6 months)

My second question is supposing I do get the DVI-HDMI adapter for the T2200 HD, what about audio? I have a logitech x-540 5.1 setup. How do I route multi-channel audio to the speaker set then?

My third question is if indeed I get the E2200 HD (which has the HDMI port), how do I route the audio to my speaker system?(This monitor comes with a set of crappy speakers built-in).

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
-IceRed

ZealPath
01-21-2009, 11:45 PM
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Ingenuitor
01-22-2009, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by: ZealPath
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Hello I have two of the LCD2690WUXi's in my small home studio, whereas I just got these units, they seem good. However they are super bright, I turned the brightness all the way down and I would like to turn it down some more if I could. I will say NEC is an amazing company though and very easy to deal with when it comes to support.

I wonder if there is better at this size, seems medical grade are the best, but very costly. Also I hear good things about the HP Dream Color. 1 billion colors in a 30-bit, LED-backlit display, designed for Dream Works Animation SKG Inc. I'm going to be testing these next, before making a final purchase.

Good luck with you search, this forum has definitely helped me narrow my choices.

betmen
01-22-2009, 02:25 AM
hello guys,

I've just saw this link: http://www.engadget.com/2009/0...ed-king-of-22-inchers/ (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/15/dells-2209wa-lcd-monitor-reviewed-deemed-king-of-22-inchers/)
do any of you have met this LCD? dell claims it to have IPS panel, and if yes it is going to be good replacement for my 2007wfp

thestain
01-22-2009, 04:15 AM
xtknight,

just writing to make request. with the recession and all, any way to add a budget category or to include more of the less expensive lcd monitors? see some cheaper ones on newegg now, unfortunately many appear to have tn screens.

hoping to see reviews of 24-28 inch screens in budget price category that also has multiple inputs for movies and net surfing.

for example, these asus monitors for sale on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236046 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236046)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236047 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236047)

http://c1.neweggimages.com/New...mage/24-236-047-12.jpg (http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/24-236-047-12.jpg)

i am hoping to get the connection possibilities like the ones asus offers. i am putting a few systems together for friends in next few weeks and they would be for close up work siting in front and for watching movies from about ten feet away with lcd on top of desk in small appartment. Could a tn panel work for this purpose? What monitors would work in budget price range?

thanks for all you have done.

Mike

JETninja
01-22-2009, 03:24 PM
Someone asked about cleaning LCD's (xtknight, a teeshirt? Those often are not 100% cotten!!!!)

Stock up on some Microfiber Towels.....They are sold everywhere now, usually in the Auto Section like at Target & Walmart (though it's showing up in the cleaning supplies section finally)

They cannot scratch (unless something is buried in the fibers), I use them (with quick detailer) on my cars, on my sun and reading glasses, on my LCD's & my 61" LcOS 1080P set. Just use some warm water on one, and a large dry one to dry it it. Take about 30 seconds and is about the best thing you can use, and they are quite affordable too.

gorobei
01-22-2009, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by: gorobei
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Exclusive
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

That's good to hear. I will try and find a source for this and fix the input lag measurement in the OP.

I have the A01 2408wfp. a cursory runthru of the lagom tests, shows anywhere from 25-60ms lag on the quick response times(grey tones cycling squares with squares). some are close to -10, most are around -25, and one or two in the -60 range of color shift.

i have some contract work due next week so i haven't gotten around to breaking out my digital camera or crt for the ghosting or input lag test. I'm working through the weekend and should finish up next week. i'll post some pics of the tests then.

OK. results in.
on the lagom input lag test. (the clock one)
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3357/p1000678xk1.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8438/p1000676yk9.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5373/p1000675za6.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7403/p1000673ne2.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6605/p1000672em6.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4563/p1000668sg3.jpg
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3058/p1000667sq1.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3162/p1000665ik2.jpg

average is 1 to 2 frames lag for 60hz/fps. so 17 to 34 ms input lag.

xtknight
01-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by: samduhman
What would be a nice replacement for my 22" Samsung 226bw newegg link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096)

It's been a great monitor but I'm ready for something bigger. I would like one that's great for FPS gaming (I can't stand ghosting at all). It can be a 24" if its awesome for gaming and picture looks fantastic but I'd assume Im looking more at the 26" range for a decent upgrade from a 22", no? I would prefer to stay around $300 to $500. If that won't cover it what price range am I looking at so I can start saving?

One additional comment. A 22" is actually a 20" stretched? I don't want a stretched screen this time. I want my pixels tight! ;)

Even 24" is definitely a decent upgrade due to resolution.

I think 26" is a bit big for a TN thus my gravitating towards recommending you a 24" instead if you're going for one of the cheaper TN types.

The HP LP2475w is my first and foremost recommendation, followed by the BenQ G2400WD. I'd personally recommend saving up for the HP; I really think it's worth it. That's what I would do. It gives you wider viewing angles, great color, and the same response time (albeit with a little more input lag). But I would gladly take the slight input lag (which I would likely get used to) for the other advantages. I have a screen with equal or more lag (LCD2690) and can tell you I would never go to a 26" TN from that unless the only thing I did was game.

xtknight
01-22-2009, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by: middlepath
I've decided to buy the 2490WUXi but here's a quick question: from which vendor is my best bet in terms of returning the display in the case of dead pixels, etc.? I see that B&H and PC Connection have better pricing than Newegg (which is linked from this thread). Any advice?

Much thanks.



I know that Dell has a return policy for any LCD you order from them where you can return it within 21 days for any reason ("Total Satisfaction Guarantee"). Should be described here:

http://www.dell.com/content/to...=en&s=dhs&~section=018 (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/policy/en/policy?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~section=018)

It says 21 days for unopened but I know that many people exchanged for refurbs and got back good units. Call them for details, I guess.

As for other retailers, you can search this thread for the word merchant or retailer and come up with something else, I'm sure. I'm sorry I just can't remember at this moment. I think that NCIXUS has good policies.

Originally posted by: aceO07
Just to update, I bought my HP lp2475w (from Amazon) a couple of weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I got one with green/pink tinting. It's green tinting on the left half of the screen and pink on the right half. The tint gets stronger near the edges. It's noticeable on white, gray backgrounds. Harder to tell on movies or mixed backgrounds. The reds are very pronounced. I also got 1 bright pixel in the middle of the screen.

I'm going to call HP and get it exchanged.

Well I hope that you get a good replacement. As far as I have heard though HP has been steadfast on getting people replacements.

Paladin
01-23-2009, 12:56 PM
I got my HP 2475w a couple of days ago. I bought it from Provantage.com, it's a Oct 2008 build, with the GIG 122 revison. No Pink/Green hue issues, text looks great.

This monitor is absolutely gorgeous!! I've tweaked it on the OSD according to TFTCentral's recommendations, and am using the ICC profile from there too.

Wife originally thought it was too large (coming from 19" crt). But now loves it.
Played a couple games, no ghosting, input lag that I can notice.

I'd definitely recommend spending a couple hundred extra over the 24" TN panels.

Ingenuitor
01-23-2009, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: ZealPath
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Hello I have two of the LCD2690WUXi's in my small home studio, whereas I just got these units, they seem good. However they are super bright, I turned the brightness all the way down and I would like to turn it down some more if I could. I will say NEC is an amazing company though and very easy to deal with when it comes to support.

I wonder if there is better at this size, seems medical grade are the best, but very costly. Also I hear good things about the HP Dream Color. 1 billion colors in a 30-bit, LED-backlit display, designed for Dream Works Animation SKG Inc. I'm going to be testing these next, before making a final purchase.

Good luck with you search, this forum has definitely helped me narrow my choices.


Here is an update to my ongoing testing of two LCD2690WUXi panels. I find these panels actually hurt my eyes after only a few days of use and seem to be way too bright even when I have the brightness turned all the way down. They are both calibrated to the T. using NEC's calibration tools and have great color saturation, but I think they may even be too big for the distance I'm sitting at. I have not found a way to add an image for reference to show my setup on this forum. However I have this all setup at around 1 1/2" - 2" feet away from my eyes, both in center points titled inward to create a wrapping effect.

They do work very well when showing photos, graphic designs and respond quickly to a KVM switch. Both are setup @ 1920 x 1200 on DVI-1 60-75hz.

I'm not sure they would work for me long-term, they may cause long tern eye strain. I noticed at the end of the day various items around the office are little more hazy than when I was even using my 20.1" laptop monitor, yes laptop, WSXGA+ with Crystal Bright LCD. That monitor did not hurt my eyes during long term use. These almost trick you into thinking they are 3D, I get this kind of floating effect in my head, not sure if I would get used to it, or if they are simply not for my applications.

Again this is just my findings so far after a few days of use, any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps I need to look at other sources or get smaller screens to see if that makes any difference.

theslug
01-23-2009, 05:45 PM
This is a calibration/color management question. I have the Eyeone LT colorimeter and I'm using both a CRT and LCD on the same system. Should I use the x-rite software to create an ICC profile? Does a profile actually allow the screen to display more accurate colors/grayscale? I guess I'm not sure what the profile actually does since monitors have their own built-in adjustments as well.

samduhman
01-23-2009, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: samduhman
What would be a nice replacement for my 22" Samsung 226bw newegg link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096)

It's been a great monitor but I'm ready for something bigger. I would like one that's great for FPS gaming (I can't stand ghosting at all). It can be a 24" if its awesome for gaming and picture looks fantastic but I'd assume Im looking more at the 26" range for a decent upgrade from a 22", no? I would prefer to stay around $300 to $500. If that won't cover it what price range am I looking at so I can start saving?

One additional comment. A 22" is actually a 20" stretched? I don't want a stretched screen this time. I want my pixels tight! ;)

Even 24" is definitely a decent upgrade due to resolution.

I think 26" is a bit big for a TN thus my gravitating towards recommending you a 24" instead if you're going for one of the cheaper TN types.

The HP LP2475w is my first and foremost recommendation, followed by the BenQ G2400WD. I'd personally recommend saving up for the HP; I really think it's worth it. That's what I would do. It gives you wider viewing angles, great color, and the same response time (albeit with a little more input lag). But I would gladly take the slight input lag (which I would likely get used to) for the other advantages. I have a screen with equal or more lag (LCD2690) and can tell you I would never go to a 26" TN from that unless the only thing I did was game.

Thanks xtknight. I'm going for the HP. :D

Painman
01-24-2009, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by: IngenuitorHere is an update to my ongoing testing of two LCD2690WUXi panels. I find these panels actually hurt my eyes after only a few days of use and seem to be way too bright even when I have the brightness turned all the way down. They are both calibrated to the T. using NEC's calibration tools and have great color saturation, but I think they may even be too big for the distance I'm sitting at. I have not found a way to add an image for reference to show my setup on this forum. However I have this all setup at around 1 1/2" - 2" feet away from my eyes, both in center points titled inward to create a wrapping effect.

They do work very well when showing photos, graphic designs and respond quickly to a KVM switch. Both are setup @ 1920 x 1200 on DVI-1 60-75hz.

I'm not sure they would work for me long-term, they may cause long tern eye strain. I noticed at the end of the day various items around the office are little more hazy than when I was even using my 20.1" laptop monitor, yes laptop, WSXGA+ with Crystal Bright LCD. That monitor did not hurt my eyes during long term use. These almost trick you into thinking they are 3D, I get this kind of floating effect in my head, not sure if I would get used to it, or if they are simply not for my applications.

Again this is just my findings so far after a few days of use, any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps I need to look at other sources or get smaller screens to see if that makes any difference.

I don't understand why NEC ships these panels with the brightness turned up so high that it burns rectangles into your retinas, but they do... I had the same problem out of the box, but you're saying that they are still too bright, even with the brightness turned all the way down? The minimum luminance setting for the display is 50 Cd/mē (est.), which isn't very bright at all... are your eyes particularly sensitive? Are you using the Auto Brightness function? (Don't).

Try this: Get into the advanced OSD menu (turn off the display, then power it back on while depressing the Input button, then enter the OSD menu, it should show a new one now with 14 tabs, 1 through E). On the first tab of the advanced OSD there should be a selection called Auto Luminance. Set it to level 1 or level 3; this will kill Auto Brightness (if it's been enabled) and change your Brightness setting scale into an estimate of Candela output instead of a baseless percentage. 140 Cd/mē is fairly standard for photo editing work, so tab back up to your brightness setting now and choose something, say, in the 130-150 Cd/mē range, and see if that's easier on your eyes.

Hope that helps. I keep my 2690 set for a target luminance of 140, and I never get eye strain problems from staring at it for long periods.

Triplehammer
01-24-2009, 02:25 AM
The Samsung 2233rz is now available from Tigerdirect and CompUSA as part of a $600 bundle that includes the new nVidia 3D Vision goggles. Early reports from the hardforum thread, here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1387713

is that it is a true 120Hz LCD display. This single fact would put it at the top of the Hardcore Gaming list. Being 120Hz may even make it the ONLY Hardcore Gaming choice.

lookouthere
01-24-2009, 03:55 AM
what kind of panel is Acer P241waid monitor?

Painman
01-24-2009, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by: lookouthere
what kind of panel is Acer P241waid monitor?

You mean P241W? It's a TN.

Info found here (http://lcd24-7.info/Default.aspx)

xtknight
01-24-2009, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by: ZX81
Any alternative to the LG L227WTG-PF ???

both bestbuy.ca and futureshop.ca are out of stock and the LGs dont seem to be equivalent

Can you recommend another 22" widescreen glossy, preferably with rectangular shape as I'm planning on nesting 4 of them together

thanks

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/...&langid=EN&catid=26175 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=26175)

http://www.futureshop.ca/catal...&langid=EN&catid=25074 (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=25074)

The HP w2207h is a good alternative.

xtknight
01-24-2009, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by: icered
I was planning on getting a Benq E2200 HD Flat panel this weekend(My first transition from a CRT to a flat panel)
Specs are as below:
21.5" viewable
16:9 Aspect Ratio
1920x1080 Native resolution
5ms Response time
DVI-D with hdcp
HDMI port

Benq E2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1368&page=specifications)

While I was at the store I found out there was a cheaper version of the same monitor - the Benq T2200 HD. Its the same as its slightly more expensive brethren minus the HDMI port, the crappy speakers, the Senseye+Photo image tech and possibly the overdrive mechanism(Benq calls its AMA I guess)

Benq T2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1388&page=specifications)

Now the price difference between the two is about $30. My question is whether it is better to go for the cheaper version(the T2200HD which doesn't have the HDMI port)? Reading through forum posts I gather its easy to get an DVI-HDMI adapter if I need to, say connect a PS3/XBOX-360. (I don't own a console right now, but I might after, say 5-6 months)

Yeah a DVI-HDMI adapter should work. I think it's worth paying the extra for AMA (overdrive). Otherwise it might feel like you're using 5-years-old LCD response technology.

My second question is supposing I do get the DVI-HDMI adapter for the T2200 HD, what about audio? I have a logitech x-540 5.1 setup. How do I route multi-channel audio to the speaker set then?

That depends on the outputs of your console. If it has Dolby output that hook this up to a receiver. Otherwise you might be stuck with stereo. I'm not sure there's anything to "grab" audio from the HDMI and even then it seems you'd need a receiver (Dolby decoder) to get 5.1.

My third question is if indeed I get the E2200 HD (which has the HDMI port), how do I route the audio to my speaker system?(This monitor comes with a set of crappy speakers built-in).

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
-IceRed

The E2200HD doesn't have audio output (at least not 5.1), so you'd have to come up with some other solution.

Check this out: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hard.../x/xbox360hdmiavcable/ (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hdmiavcable/)

xtknight
01-24-2009, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by: ZealPath
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Yeah TNs are actually worse for general use than multimedia in my opinion.

Maybe something like the HP LP2475w or Dell 2408WFP. Maybe the HP L2275w or Lenovo L220x, also? See what you think of these models... (yes, all wide gamut)

And BTW the greenish wide gamut backlight of the LCD26 bothered me for reading. But the LCD24 (albeit with smaller pixels) could be a better choice. Personally I recommend a VA 22", preferably at normal gamut (which unfortunately does not exist on the US market to my knowledge). Both 22" VAs I listed, which are basically the only two on the market besides the expensive Eizo S2231W, are also wide gamut.

I'm just telling you that wide gamut bothered me for reading black on white. You might even like it better, I'd never know. I'm not sure I can make your decision any easier. I hear that the BenQ G2400WD is good for text, but it's a TN. There's no silver bullet here.

I found 20.1" LCDs hard for text but 22" LCDs are quite decent with regards to text size. If the wide gamut bothers you you might have to move to 24" to get a non-TN panel. Even at that size, finding a non-wide-gamut monitor is difficult, but the NEC LCD2490 is one example. Try to find out if wide gamut would bother you by looking at WG LCDs at your local store.

xtknight
01-24-2009, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by: ungco
Hi people, I'm not really in a dire predicament, but I think some advice would be helpful.

Basically, I'm currently running off my laptop (XPS M1710) screen to do all my work and various multimedia activities. I'm studying graphic design and animation, so I guess colour reproduction would be one of the more important (if not most) factor in my purchase of a secondary display - the only problem is budget constraints. I've only got AU$500 to spend on the thing, which is approximately $350US give or take, so I know I won't be able to get the most brilliant display. After reading countless reviews and having measured the costs, I decided upon the BenQ G2400WT (considering it has the versatile stand and similar display to the V2400W). Still haven't bought it yet though, and since then I found out about the Dell 2209WA, which comes with an IPS panel according to the Australian Dell website. Of course, being a new display, reviews are scarce and I'm reticent to just go by the Cnet review.

So, question is, would it be advisable to wait out for more reviews before I decide or just straight out go for one of them? I love the luxury of the large screen and amount of pixels on the BenQ (and after seeing it in person, was rather impressed), but the IPS screen and reported accuracy of colour on the Dell gives me pause.

On top of my studies, I'm also doing a bit of freelance work on the side, so take that as you will. I don't play many games (the one I play most is Solitaire), but do watch a few movies.

Thanks for reading!

I would go for the IPS Dell panel even in absence of reviews. I don't think it will have serious issues, and in the worst case AFAIK Dell will allow you to return it.

Originally posted by: var89
Originally posted by: xtknight


What research exactly led you to that conclusion?

I'm not sure IPS TVs are the cat's meow. And really you shouldn't resort to using a huge-pixeled TV just because it's an IPS panel.

Why not try something like the HP LP2475w? Surely that's around the same price or cheaper than the TVs you're looking at. If you want a photo editing quality monitor you also need a good dot pitch and you can't get that from the bigger TVs.


Well, in that case what is the difference between an LCD TV and a LCD monitor.
If i take let's say 1366 x 768 resolution for '26' inch, that means it has bigger pixels and if i take '22' inch having same resolution means it has smaller pixels. correct me if i'm wrong.

If that is the case then I can't use TV as my Monitor.

LCD TVs generally have bigger pixels and may do other color processing which means it's the brakes for any type of photo editing. It's very hard to ensure that an LCD TV is fit for photo editing use or color accuracy as it is not meant for that but instead meant for media demanding the highest contrast possible regardless of accuracy.

1366x768 at 22" does have smaller pixels than 26".

xtknight
01-24-2009, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: ZealPath
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Hello I have two of the LCD2690WUXi's in my small home studio, whereas I just got these units, they seem good. However they are super bright, I turned the brightness all the way down and I would like to turn it down some more if I could. I will say NEC is an amazing company though and very easy to deal with when it comes to support.

I wonder if there is better at this size, seems medical grade are the best, but very costly. Also I hear good things about the HP Dream Color. 1 billion colors in a 30-bit, LED-backlit display, designed for Dream Works Animation SKG Inc. I'm going to be testing these next, before making a final purchase.

Good luck with you search, this forum has definitely helped me narrow my choices.


Some of the medical grade are grayscale only for radiology. Otherwise they are probably just IPS panels with a high price and certifications slapped on them. Although, you may prefer HP's upcoming LED backlight monitor to the LCD2690.

xtknight
01-24-2009, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by: thestain
xtknight,

just writing to make request. with the recession and all, any way to add a budget category or to include more of the less expensive lcd monitors? see some cheaper ones on newegg now, unfortunately many appear to have tn screens.

hoping to see reviews of 24-28 inch screens in budget price category that also has multiple inputs for movies and net surfing.

One issue is that there are simply no reviews of these cheaper panels by the review sites I go by (which happen to be quite a few). For example, X-Bit Labs, BeHardware, Tom's Hardware, flatpanels.dk, prad... And without this information I'd be in the same boat as you. I generally do try to recommend models as cheap as I can but I don't want to have someone paying $500 for a cheap 26" monitor when they could get a GREAT 22-24" monitor they'd love for that price, you know what I mean?

There's a chance I would miss some LCDs out there but you would have to make a case for me. I have seen almost all the reviews out there and continue to read up on them from time to time to find anything I may have missed.

I think the moral of the story is if you're on a budget you probably shouldn't be seeking a panel that big unless you want low quality. That's simply how the market has played out.

for example, these asus monitors for sale on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236046 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236046)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236047 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236047)

http://c1.neweggimages.com/New...mage/24-236-047-12.jpg (http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/24-236-047-12.jpg)

i am hoping to get the connection possibilities like the ones asus offers. i am putting a few systems together for friends in next few weeks and they would be for close up work siting in front and for watching movies from about ten feet away with lcd on top of desk in small appartment. Could a tn panel work for this purpose? What monitors would work in budget price range?

thanks for all you have done.

Mike

These ASUS 22" monitors are actually quite expensive for TN panels. The multimedia inputs are helpful though if you're going to be hooking up set-top boxes. (Otherwise, you can play DVDs from your computer with software like Media Player Classic - Home Cinema with good reliability and video syncing.)

Otherwise you can try the LG L227WTG-PF which I personally love for movies. I watch them here with folks at the dorm all the time and just use software to play DVDs.

xtknight
01-24-2009, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by: JETninja
Someone asked about cleaning LCD's (xtknight, a teeshirt? Those often are not 100% cotten!!!!)

I have always had good luck with my old white T-shirt. I am not obsessive about the screen being shining and gleaming but it works to get off the occasional stain when you need to. If you really want to clean it beyond just "getting off the stains" then I'd recommend better materials clearly. :)

Stock up on some Microfiber Towels.....They are sold everywhere now, usually in the Auto Section like at Target & Walmart (though it's showing up in the cleaning supplies section finally)

They cannot scratch (unless something is buried in the fibers), I use them (with quick detailer) on my cars, on my sun and reading glasses, on my LCD's & my 61" LcOS 1080P set. Just use some warm water on one, and a large dry one to dry it it. Take about 30 seconds and is about the best thing you can use, and they are quite affordable too.

Yes, I agree. Especially when you are cleaning those $1000+ LCD panels. But I have to confess I have used rubbing alcohol and a T-shirt to clean off my LCD26, and it looks better than it ever has. I actually never bothered to get special wipes myself because my magic T-shirt has always done the trick.

shiznit
01-24-2009, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by: Triplehammer
The Samsung 2233rz is now available from Tigerdirect and CompUSA as part of a $600 bundle that includes the new nVidia 3D Vision goggles. Early reports from the hardforum thread, here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1387713

is that it is a true 120Hz LCD display. This single fact would put it at the top of the Hardcore Gaming list. Being 120Hz may even make it the ONLY Hardcore Gaming choice.

Agreed. This monitor is for real and the 120hz alone (so long vsync, burn in hell) is good enough for the top of the list, way up there miles above the rest.

Until the 120hz Viewsonic comes out this is the ONLY gaming worthy LCD on the market.

Ingenuitor
01-24-2009, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by: Painman
Originally posted by: IngenuitorHere is an update to my ongoing testing of two LCD2690WUXi panels. I find these panels actually hurt my eyes after only a few days of use and seem to be way too bright even when I have the brightness turned all the way down. They are both calibrated to the T. using NEC's calibration tools and have great color saturation, but I think they may even be too big for the distance I'm sitting at. I have not found a way to add an image for reference to show my setup on this forum. However I have this all setup at around 1 1/2" - 2" feet away from my eyes, both in center points titled inward to create a wrapping effect.

They do work very well when showing photos, graphic designs and respond quickly to a KVM switch. Both are setup @ 1920 x 1200 on DVI-1 60-75hz.

I'm not sure they would work for me long-term, they may cause long tern eye strain. I noticed at the end of the day various items around the office are little more hazy than when I was even using my 20.1" laptop monitor, yes laptop, WSXGA+ with Crystal Bright LCD. That monitor did not hurt my eyes during long term use. These almost trick you into thinking they are 3D, I get this kind of floating effect in my head, not sure if I would get used to it, or if they are simply not for my applications.

Again this is just my findings so far after a few days of use, any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps I need to look at other sources or get smaller screens to see if that makes any difference.

I don't understand why NEC ships these panels with the brightness turned up so high that it burns rectangles into your retinas, but they do... I had the same problem out of the box, but you're saying that they are still too bright, even with the brightness turned all the way down? The minimum luminance setting for the display is 50 Cd/mē (est.), which isn't very bright at all... are your eyes particularly sensitive? Are you using the Auto Brightness function? (Don't).

Try this: Get into the advanced OSD menu (turn off the display, then power it back on while depressing the Input button, then enter the OSD menu, it should show a new one now with 14 tabs, 1 through E). On the first tab of the advanced OSD there should be a selection called Auto Luminance. Set it to level 1 or level 3; this will kill Auto Brightness (if it's been enabled) and change your Brightness setting scale into an estimate of Candela output instead of a baseless percentage. 140 Cd/mē is fairly standard for photo editing work, so tab back up to your brightness setting now and choose something, say, in the 130-150 Cd/mē range, and see if that's easier on your eyes.

Hope that helps. I keep my 2690 set for a target luminance of 140, and I never get eye strain problems from staring at it for long periods.


Wow what a difference your suggestions made, I do work on graphic designs all day but yet write 1000's of lines of code as well for my eCommerce software business I own, 14 years now. I thank you very much for the advise, maybe I can make these work, it just seems like it's so hard to find a really top notch monitor even at these high costs.

Maybe I just expect too much for my money today. I was going to look into a HDTV's thinking is may be better, but now I'm not 100% sure, doesn't seem to be a buzz on-line in HDTV's as a true professional monitor. I came from a super high end 27" Sony flat CRT's that even had CMYK BNC connectors and nothing since looks as good IMO. But they take up way too much space and will just about cripple you when you try to move them. We certainly could not lift them with my actuator powered ergonomic desk I'm working on and well you the rest of the story, must move on to grow in the industry.

Thanks again as you have been very helpful. If not for the forum, I would be lost really, too many choices and trying to narrow it down quickly.

Ingenuitor
01-24-2009, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: ZealPath
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Hello I have two of the LCD2690WUXi's in my small home studio, whereas I just got these units, they seem good. However they are super bright, I turned the brightness all the way down and I would like to turn it down some more if I could. I will say NEC is an amazing company though and very easy to deal with when it comes to support.

I wonder if there is better at this size, seems medical grade are the best, but very costly. Also I hear good things about the HP Dream Color. 1 billion colors in a 30-bit, LED-backlit display, designed for Dream Works Animation SKG Inc. I'm going to be testing these next, before making a final purchase.

Good luck with you search, this forum has definitely helped me narrow my choices.


Some of the medical grade are grayscale only for radiology. Otherwise they are probably just IPS panels with a high price and certifications slapped on them. Although, you may prefer HP's upcoming LED backlight monitor to the LCD2690.

The HP Dream Color? I'm thinking about testing it, pricey, but maybe fair for the technology it represents at this time, plus it dropped by $1200, just in one year. Yet I read it's not really is good as HP markets it to be. Or are you looking at another model and if so what model, I would liove to research it? Thanks

xtknight
01-24-2009, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by: gorobei
Originally posted by: gorobei
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Exclusive
xtknight,

The Dell 2408WFP (A01 Rev) has majorly decreased the input lag from 60 ~ 70ms to 30 ~ 35ms.

That's good to hear. I will try and find a source for this and fix the input lag measurement in the OP.

I have the A01 2408wfp. a cursory runthru of the lagom tests, shows anywhere from 25-60ms lag on the quick response times(grey tones cycling squares with squares). some are close to -10, most are around -25, and one or two in the -60 range of color shift.

i have some contract work due next week so i haven't gotten around to breaking out my digital camera or crt for the ghosting or input lag test. I'm working through the weekend and should finish up next week. i'll post some pics of the tests then.

OK. results in.
on the lagom input lag test. (the clock one)
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3357/p1000678xk1.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8438/p1000676yk9.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5373/p1000675za6.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7403/p1000673ne2.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6605/p1000672em6.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4563/p1000668sg3.jpg
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3058/p1000667sq1.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3162/p1000665ik2.jpg

average is 1 to 2 frames lag for 60hz/fps. so 17 to 34 ms input lag.

Thanks a lot for these measurements. This is uplifting. I will add it to the OP.

Originally posted by: theslug
This is a calibration/color management question. I have the Eyeone LT colorimeter and I'm using both a CRT and LCD on the same system. Should I use the x-rite software to create an ICC profile? Does a profile actually allow the screen to display more accurate colors/grayscale? I guess I'm not sure what the profile actually does since monitors have their own built-in adjustments as well.

A 'profile' in the strict sense is a notebook of your monitor's physical properties. It records the gamut triangle (the part of the visual spectrum your screen can reproduce) by using the three CIE X, Y, Z ordinates. This range of the visual spectrum is completely irrelevant to the number of colors within that specified spectrum that it can display; that is specified instead by bit depth. (Clearly, bit depth can be up to infinity within any given spectrum, or something like that.) Most monitors have 8 bit depth through one way or another.

Profiles also usually include calibration, which is a list of three columns of 256 values to calibrate each gray level in the display. This is uploaded to your video card to further calibrate the panel even though the monitor does have some R/G/B adjustment.

So yes, calibrate your display and make an ICC profile.

zod96
01-24-2009, 10:03 PM
Was wondering how good or bad is the HP LP1965 http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...70-444767-3296839.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3296839.html)

Based on the view angles I would say its a MVA panel? And I'd assume its not glossy either the screen that is. I'm think about downgrading my 22 inch LG to a standard 19 inch non wide screen LCD. I'm having trouble seeing the 22 inch while surfing the internet with my eye sight. I would love to get the NEC 90GX2, but can't find them anywhere. Would the HP LP1965 be a good choice for games and for clear text while surfing the internet?

zod96
01-25-2009, 01:04 PM
I can get the HP one from B&H for $279 out the door. But I'd really like to hear from people about this LCD before I get it. I'm typing on my Dad's L90D+ now. Its soo much easier to read then my LG lcd.

BassBomb
01-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by: zod96
I can get the HP one from B&H for $279 out the door. But I'd really like to hear from people about this LCD before I get it. I'm typing on my Dad's L90D+ now. Its soo much easier to read then my LG lcd.

22" widescreen is about the same pitch as 19" non widescreen

I would not drop 280 on a 19" in this day and age

What are you having trouble seeing? Move the monitor closer?

JETninja
01-25-2009, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight

I have always had good luck with my old white T-shirt. I am not obsessive about the screen being shining and gleaming but it works to get off the occasional stain when you need to. If you really want to clean it beyond just "getting off the stains" then I'd recommend better materials clearly. :)


Just look at the Tag and make sure no man made fibers like Rayon or Nylon (has to be 100% cotton) and then you know your safe, those other fibers can leave micro scratches.

It would have to be some serious oily goop to to require Alcohol....Warm water should suffice.

I'm very anal about clean glass and LCD's. I clean my car's windows ('95 modded M3) every single day. (drive 70m per day) I use Armor All or Rain-X spray cleaner, with low lint paper towels two times on each outside window. (first pass cleans the crude, 2nd with another paper towel bundle gets rid of streaks) MF to get any missed streaks. Interior windows (Tinted) only get warm water and 100% cotton towels or MF towels. Just like all the home electronic panels....Only the kids old "glass" tube TV gets spray, cause of the "Gunk" they get on it. (KIDS!) :D

zod96
01-25-2009, 02:02 PM
The HP uses a MVA panel that's why I think its more than a regular 19 inch. And I've tried moving the LCD closer that didn't help to much. I'm always squinting to see text and such. And if I increase the font size then web pages tend to get somewhat distorted...

BassBomb
01-25-2009, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by: zod96
The HP uses a MVA panel that's why I think its more than a regular 19 inch. And I've tried moving the LCD closer that didn't help to much. I'm always squinting to see text and such. And if I increase the font size then web pages tend to get somewhat distorted...

Do you need glasses lol?

The size of the text will not change on the MVA.
Also are you using DVI or VGA? And are you using the native resolution of your panel?

zod96
01-25-2009, 04:01 PM
I'm using DVI. And I do wear glasses :-) I'm blind in one eye actually. Well not totally but its like 2/400 with glasses, and my good eye is 20/80. I know the size of the text will not change, but going from 1680x1050 to 1280x1024 will be huge. When I sit at my dad's desk with his L90D+ I can sit back in the chair and read websites no problem. With my LG I have to lean fore ward and squint to see websites. I'm getting a little tired of that...

zod96
01-25-2009, 04:31 PM
LOL forget it I just fired up BF2 on my Dad's 1280x1024 LCD, and while text is easier to read on that, games look like crap compared to my LG. They look all squished and games are more important to me then text so the LG stays..

BassBomb
01-25-2009, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by: zod96
LOL forget it I just fired up BF2 on my Dad's 1280x1024 LCD, and while text is easier to read on that, games look like crap compared to my LG. They look all squished and games are more important to me then text so the LG stays..

LOL

there is a whole lot of tweaking you can do on your lcd to figure out what will look the best to your eyes

for example, xp cleartype.. sharpness on monitor, dv modes

paperfist
01-25-2009, 07:42 PM
My Dell SP2309W (http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-7641) finally came in and after a week + of using it for gaming and web surfing I couldn't be happier.

The screen has a gloss finish on it, not real glossy but just enough to give it a shine. The frame of the LCD is very glossy, but since I don't tend to touch it finger prints aren't an issue. It has a pretty cool 'touch' power button and not your typical press in to turn on button.

I know some people here wanted to know about it, but I'm not sure what the best way to show it off is. I could run some benchmark software (3DMark?) and record it with my camera's video mode and post it here if anyone wants me to. Or if there's a better way I'm all ears :)

TempletonPeck
01-25-2009, 09:28 PM
I have an LG L227WTG monitor. I've had it for close to a year now.

It emits a buzzing/whining/some sort of high pitched sound, but only when I visit this one particular web page. If I switch tabs within the web browser it disappears. Any idea why?

xtknight
01-25-2009, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Originally posted by: ZealPath
Well I have to say, it was great to finally be pointed to this thread as it seems like quite a fountain of knowledge, hopefully someone has some suggestions for me.

I have had some pretty notorious difficulties making the adjustment from CRT to LCD. I'm not one of those "oh I'll just wait until the next technology" type people, I really want to like LCDs, so far it just seems like they don't like me. One thing that has always been an issue for me is readability, I do play a lot of games, but games have never been the issue, quite the opposite. I would say that I've always thought that the LCDs I have tried have enhanced my gaming experiences, the only problem is, they have all but destroyed my browing/reading experiences, and for someone who likes to kill time at places like Wikipedia, that just doesn't work for me.

So I would say that text is the priority here, size wise, I still use a 17" CRT at 1024x768, so I'm hoping to upgrade a little, 22" seems to be the best size for me at this point for the better dot pitch at 1680x1050, compared to how it would be smaller on a 20"er. I guess by the same token, a 26" at 1900x1200 could work, though I have never used a monitor at that resolution before. Honestly I wish I could use a solution as simple as lowering the resolution but going below the native resolution completely kills the crispness on an LCD in my experiences so far.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems with reading and has found an LCD that they like, I believe the vast majority of the LCDs I have tried in the past have been TN panels, and the bad viewing angles are another thing that drove me nuts. This is one thing I know I can work around now by using one of the other panel types, so I would certainly like to hear suggestions for VA or IPS panels. The last LCD that I tried was a 22" Dell (don't remember the exact model name), seemed very cheap and for just a little while, it didn't bug the hell out of me, but it wasn't long before the bad viewing angles and difficulty reading text got the better of me and it got packaged up and returned.

I wish I could try out the LCD2690WUXi just to see what it is like, not exactly the kind of monitor I'm going to find on display at a place like Best Buy huh. :laugh:

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Hello I have two of the LCD2690WUXi's in my small home studio, whereas I just got these units, they seem good. However they are super bright, I turned the brightness all the way down and I would like to turn it down some more if I could. I will say NEC is an amazing company though and very easy to deal with when it comes to support.

I wonder if there is better at this size, seems medical grade are the best, but very costly. Also I hear good things about the HP Dream Color. 1 billion colors in a 30-bit, LED-backlit display, designed for Dream Works Animation SKG Inc. I'm going to be testing these next, before making a final purchase.

Good luck with you search, this forum has definitely helped me narrow my choices.


Some of the medical grade are grayscale only for radiology. Otherwise they are probably just IPS panels with a high price and certifications slapped on them. Although, you may prefer HP's upcoming LED backlight monitor to the LCD2690.

The HP Dream Color? I'm thinking about testing it, pricey, but maybe fair for the technology it represents at this time, plus it dropped by $1200, just in one year. Yet I read it's not really is good as HP markets it to be. Or are you looking at another model and if so what model, I would liove to research it? Thanks

I was speaking of the HP you were referencing. I don't know about their other models.

xtknight
01-25-2009, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by: zod96
Was wondering how good or bad is the HP LP1965 http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...70-444767-3296839.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3296839.html)

Based on the view angles I would say its a MVA panel? And I'd assume its not glossy either the screen that is. I'm think about downgrading my 22 inch LG to a standard 19 inch non wide screen LCD. I'm having trouble seeing the 22 inch while surfing the internet with my eye sight. I would love to get the NEC 90GX2, but can't find them anywhere. Would the HP LP1965 be a good choice for games and for clear text while surfing the internet?

Yes it is a matte MVA panel that I recommend in the OP. It would be OK for games but great I think for general use. It does have quite a fast response time. Check the X-Bit Labs review I link in the OP for the LP1965.

natty1
01-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by: shiznit
Originally posted by: Triplehammer
The Samsung 2233rz is now available from Tigerdirect and CompUSA as part of a $600 bundle that includes the new nVidia 3D Vision goggles. Early reports from the hardforum thread, here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1387713

is that it is a true 120Hz LCD display. This single fact would put it at the top of the Hardcore Gaming list. Being 120Hz may even make it the ONLY Hardcore Gaming choice.

Agreed. This monitor is for real and the 120hz alone (so long vsync, burn in hell) is good enough for the top of the list, way up there miles above the rest.

Until the 120hz Viewsonic comes out this is the ONLY gaming worthy LCD on the market.

this is correct

xtknight, this monitor needs to go to the top of the hardcore gaming list

WaxHaX0rS
01-26-2009, 12:22 AM
I just purchased and received the BenQ 2400WD. One thing I notice (and I noticed it with my old TN monitor) is that that contrast within dark colors is not very good. If you have a dark area and a light area, you really have to jack up the contrast/brightness to be able to distinguish between the colors in the dark area. This makes the lighter areas excessively bright imo. Basically my question is, does anyone have a good way of increasing contrast in dark areas without maxing out the brightness and burning my eyes out from the bright areas? Obv I know this is mostly a problem with the technology but I was wondering if someone could give some idea of things to tweak to minimize this problem.

xtknight
01-26-2009, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by: WaxHaX0rS
I just purchased and received the BenQ 2400WD. One thing I notice (and I noticed it with my old TN monitor) is that that contrast within dark colors is not very good. If you have a dark area and a light area, you really have to jack up the contrast/brightness to be able to distinguish between the colors in the dark area. This makes the lighter areas excessively bright imo. Basically my question is, does anyone have a good way of increasing contrast in dark areas without maxing out the brightness and burning my eyes out from the bright areas? Obv I know this is mostly a problem with the technology but I was wondering if someone could give some idea of things to tweak to minimize this problem.

Gamma can be increased to raise brightness with the bias towards the midtones rather than at one side or the other only.

Edit: I should say, 'gamma correction', because 'gamma' is actually a function of your display itself. However, it is labeled simply as 'gamma' in most programs and usually raising this will increase the brightness, but sometimes lowering it due to the ambiguous terminology.

ZetaEpyon
01-26-2009, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by: paperfist
My Dell SP2309W (http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-7641) finally came in and after a week + of using it for gaming and web surfing I couldn't be happier.

The screen has a gloss finish on it, not real glossy but just enough to give it a shine. The frame of the LCD is very glossy, but since I don't tend to touch it finger prints aren't an issue. It has a pretty cool 'touch' power button and not your typical press in to turn on button.

I know some people here wanted to know about it, but I'm not sure what the best way to show it off is. I could run some benchmark software (3DMark?) and record it with my camera's video mode and post it here if anyone wants me to. Or if there's a better way I'm all ears :)

Honestly, I'd just be interested in hearing your objective impressions of it; viewing angles, overall picture quality, input lag test if you have a CRT to compare, etc. :)

rpsgc
01-26-2009, 02:08 PM
I'm thinking of buying this largely unknown monitor, the Philips 240PW9ES (black version 240PW9EB). Apparently it uses the same panel as the HP LP2475W. Unfortunately it seems to be rare outside of Asia/Europe, thus I can only find good information on Singaporean forums but still it's not enough, no input lag tests, etc :/

africanleopard
01-26-2009, 02:16 PM
So...I'm not that clued up on LCD monitors - I really like the look of the Dell 2209WA. Would I be able to play my XBOX360 on it? Or do I need monitor that states specifically it can run HD?

cogent
01-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Hi guys!

I'm sure this has been asked before, in that case please refer me to the page number. As I didn't read through all of the 323 pages in this thread :-P
What's the deal with brightness (cd/m^2)? I read over the 1st post a couple of times, and there doesn't seem to be a good description of how it effects the monitor. When shopping for a monitor should I just ignore it and focus more on contrast? The reason I'm asking is because I'm eyeballing the BenQ 2400WD ($350 on amazon) and it's brightness is 250cd. As opposed to another common value of 300cd. Right now I have a crappy FujiPLUS FP-988D (http://www.newegg.com/product/...?item=N82E16824168005) (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16824168005)), which also has 250cd. When I watch movies on it, it appears way too dark, I can barely see the anything if the movie is in a dark setting. So my question is, will the 2400WD be dark as well?

Thanks!

Lalakai
01-26-2009, 04:03 PM
the LG W2241T..............i tried searching through this thread for info on it, but couldn't find it, so i'll break down and ask.

what are the differences between the W2241T the LG L227WTG?? I was just getting ready to buy the 227 when i seen a sale at BB for the 2241 at $209. Primary use will be gaming. Usually i'ld also check Egg's feedback but for some reason i can't access them right now.

and a definite word of thanks to xtknight for this thread. i've watched it grow into a huge success, and i've seen it linked on countless other sites. kudos to you.

brencat
01-26-2009, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by: cogent
Hi guys!

I'm sure this has been asked before, in that case please refer me to the page number. As I didn't read through all of the 323 pages in this thread :-P
What's the deal with brightness (cd/m^2)? I read over the 1st post a couple of times, and there doesn't seem to be a good description of how it effects the monitor. When shopping for a monitor should I just ignore it and focus more on contrast? The reason I'm asking is because I'm eyeballing the BenQ 2400WD ($350 on amazon) and it's brightness is 250cd. As opposed to another common value of 300cd. Right now I have a crappy FujiPLUS FP-988D (http://www.newegg.com/product/...?item=N82E16824168005) (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16824168005)), which also has 250cd. When I watch movies on it, it appears way too dark, I can barely see the anything if the movie is in a dark setting. So my question is, will the 2400WD be dark as well?

Thanks!
LCD companies play all kinds of games with statistics -- the most abusive is with the dynamic contrast advert (10000:1, 20000:1, etc). Even 2ms/5ms statistics are unreliable indicators of how the monitor will perform for YOUR purposes. Rather, you need to look at pro and other user reviews to get a sense of the input lag + response time (2 different things) the monitor has, which is largely determined by the panel type (TN, VA, or IPS)

Lastly, I'm sure xtknight will explain this better but brightness over 200 cd/m^2 is more than enough for most users. I'm using a V2400W (same panel as the G2400WD you referenced) and have brightness turned down to 55%. The great thing about this LCD is the fact it's standard gamut so colors are accurate.

10e
01-26-2009, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by: africanleopard
So...I'm not that clued up on LCD monitors - I really like the look of the Dell 2209WA. Would I be able to play my XBOX360 on it? Or do I need monitor that states specifically it can run HD?

The Xbox 360 now supports 1680x1050 resolution, so it will display correctly on that monitor with a VGA or HDMI to DVI cable. But since it only has one DVI port, you'd need an HDMI or DVI switch to share it between an xbox 360 and PC, but the difference between HDMI and VGA is pretty much none in my opinion, with regards to quality.

eivanov
01-27-2009, 12:59 PM
hi guys,

I have a problem in choosing 24" monitor for general home usage. For now my options are Eizo S2431W and Eizo HD2442W but which one is better?

My video card is ATI HD4850 with 2 HDMI connectors but I can not find any information if I can connect both of them to Eizo HD2442W (one to its HDMI input for gaming and movies and the other to its DVI input for general purposes). Can anyone help on that? The idea behind this type of connection is to use so called Thrue mode which works only on HDMI. I'm not sure if dynamic contrast option works also on DVI or only on HDMI?

My research shows me that S2431W is the same as HD2442W without HDMI connectors, remote control and dynamic contrast. Is that correct? Thanks in advance for any information on that.

P.S. Sorry for my poor english - it's not my native language

BassBomb
01-27-2009, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by: 10e
Originally posted by: africanleopard
So...I'm not that clued up on LCD monitors - I really like the look of the Dell 2209WA. Would I be able to play my XBOX360 on it? Or do I need monitor that states specifically it can run HD?

The Xbox 360 now supports 1680x1050 resolution, so it will display correctly on that monitor with a VGA or HDMI to DVI cable. But since it only has one DVI port, you'd need an HDMI or DVI switch to share it between an xbox 360 and PC, but the difference between HDMI and VGA is pretty much none in my opinion, with regards to quality.






He can always run 720p if xbox doesn't like 1680x1050

xtknight
01-27-2009, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by: shiznit
Originally posted by: Triplehammer
The Samsung 2233rz is now available from Tigerdirect and CompUSA as part of a $600 bundle that includes the new nVidia 3D Vision goggles. Early reports from the hardforum thread, here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1387713

is that it is a true 120Hz LCD display. This single fact would put it at the top of the Hardcore Gaming list. Being 120Hz may even make it the ONLY Hardcore Gaming choice.

Agreed. This monitor is for real and the 120hz alone (so long vsync, burn in hell) is good enough for the top of the list, way up there miles above the rest.

Until the 120hz Viewsonic comes out this is the ONLY gaming worthy LCD on the market.

Looks really neat, but too bad the availability of a single unit and number of reviews is poor (at least for now). I'll be waiting just a little (hopefully a week or two) for more people to try it before I add it. If you're already confident in it, you can give it a try and give us a review. :) I just want to make sure there is not a serious QC issue with the new technology before I go recommending it to everyone. Other than that it probably will skyrocket to the top of Hardcore Gaming. I will probably split Gaming into True 120 Hz (tm) panels and 60 Hz panels.

I hear Samsung is also releasing a 120 Hz 24" soon.

xtknight
01-27-2009, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by: paperfist
My Dell SP2309W (http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-7641) finally came in and after a week + of using it for gaming and web surfing I couldn't be happier.

The screen has a gloss finish on it, not real glossy but just enough to give it a shine. The frame of the LCD is very glossy, but since I don't tend to touch it finger prints aren't an issue. It has a pretty cool 'touch' power button and not your typical press in to turn on button.

I know some people here wanted to know about it, but I'm not sure what the best way to show it off is. I could run some benchmark software (3DMark?) and record it with my camera's video mode and post it here if anyone wants me to. Or if there's a better way I'm all ears :)

That's pretty neat. A couple photos of the high res in use would be nice. Thanks for the thoughts.

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
I have an LG L227WTG monitor. I've had it for close to a year now.

It emits a buzzing/whining/some sort of high pitched sound, but only when I visit this one particular web page. If I switch tabs within the web browser it disappears. Any idea why?

Is that particular website darker or brighter overall? This can modulate the backlight. The L227WTG actually has an adaptive backlight that cannot be disabled as I've recently discovered, but I'm not entirely sure about the details. All I can notice is the backlight turning off when the screen is ALL black, but not much else.

xtknight
01-27-2009, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by: rpsgc
I'm thinking of buying this largely unknown monitor, the Philips 240PW9ES (black version 240PW9EB). Apparently it uses the same panel as the HP LP2475W. Unfortunately it seems to be rare outside of Asia/Europe, thus I can only find good information on Singaporean forums but still it's not enough, no input lag tests, etc :/

The HP isn't available in your area or you're just trying to save money?

Originally posted by: africanleopard
So...I'm not that clued up on LCD monitors - I really like the look of the Dell 2209WA. Would I be able to play my XBOX360 on it? Or do I need monitor that states specifically it can run HD?

Some monitors do, some don't. If I had to guess, the Dell would work as Dell usually uses good scaler/input chips. But my ViewSonic refused to show 720p even when it said HD-720p in the specs!

TempletonPeck
01-27-2009, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: paperfist



Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
I have an LG L227WTG monitor. I've had it for close to a year now.

It emits a buzzing/whining/some sort of high pitched sound, but only when I visit this one particular web page. If I switch tabs within the web browser it disappears. Any idea why?

Is that particular website darker or brighter overall? This can modulate the backlight. The L227WTG actually has an adaptive backlight that cannot be disabled as I've recently discovered, but I'm not entirely sure about the details. All I can notice is the backlight turning off when the screen is ALL black, but not much else.

The website is mostly white, so it's bright. It's just a stats page for a game. The thing is, for other games that use the same stats site, I get nothing.

As long as it isn't a symptom of a larger problem I'm not going to worry about it.

Winterpool
01-28-2009, 12:48 AM
Punters over on the Hard|Forum supposedly confirmed the Dell 2209WA is IPS (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1387587&highlight=2209wa) after speaking to Dell reps. Why don't I feel comfortable taking the word of Dell employees? Some of them supposedly negotiated $210 prices -- this makes me feel even more sceptical about the 2209WA!

It may be another week before any customers receive their Dells. I very much hope at least one Stateside reviewer is putting this display through its paces even as I write this post. How do we encourage AnandTech to try out one of these?

ungco
01-28-2009, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the advice Exclusive and xtknight. So far it's still a waiting game, but I'm more inclined to go for the 2209WA now. A few Aussies have ordered the monitor already and some are beginning to post short initial thoughts over here (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1124349.html). It's nothing extensive so far, but it should fill up after a while.

I don't go back to uni for a good month, so there's still time yet.

acidoangel
01-28-2009, 04:30 AM
Hello,
I bought 2209wa this monday and I'll receive it tuesday... I'm a little confuse because the european price rise a lot from 297? to 420? !
Maybe all 2209wa price will grow up ?

palladium
01-28-2009, 08:38 AM
Hey xtknight ( and anyone else who tried the monitor adjustment link in the OP) did you manage to get the features on the bottom sides of the test image ( the ones marked with numbers 1-3 and 252-255) working? I'm using a HP LP2475w and no matter how hard I try, I can't get them to show up without changing the gamma too much. I suppose the LP2475w should be capable of producing the subtle shades of grey, no?

TIA

Paladin
01-28-2009, 06:31 PM
Palladium,
On my HP 2475w I can see them all perfectly. I'm using the profile settings from tftcentral (the OSD settings, and the ICC profile). Have you tried them??

palladium
01-28-2009, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by: KevinC
Palladium,
On my HP 2475w I can see them all perfectly. I'm using the profile settings from tftcentral (the OSD settings, and the ICC profile). Have you tried them??


I tried that, but didn't work well ( can only see the middle left box nicely - the rest wouldn't work). I used the OSD settings, but I'm not sure how to load the ICC profile ( is that referring to the RGB settings?). I'm a complete noob when it comes to this.....

xtknight
01-29-2009, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: paperfist



Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
I have an LG L227WTG monitor. I've had it for close to a year now.

It emits a buzzing/whining/some sort of high pitched sound, but only when I visit this one particular web page. If I switch tabs within the web browser it disappears. Any idea why?

Is that particular website darker or brighter overall? This can modulate the backlight. The L227WTG actually has an adaptive backlight that cannot be disabled as I've recently discovered, but I'm not entirely sure about the details. All I can notice is the backlight turning off when the screen is ALL black, but not much else.

The website is mostly white, so it's bright. It's just a stats page for a game. The thing is, for other games that use the same stats site, I get nothing.

As long as it isn't a symptom of a larger problem I'm not going to worry about it.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that the particular color combination emitted by that site is causing the issue or perhaps unveiling some symptom.

But slightly buzzing backlights (actually transformers) are common in monitors and not usually indicative of upcoming failure.

xSauronx
01-29-2009, 11:30 AM
ok, in exchange for doing some work for someone, i got a new E207wfp from dell. linky (http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/dell-e207wfp/4505-3174_7-32135018.html)

its new in the box, and they are going for about $150 or so on ebay. Should I just sell this and find another lcd on sale somewhere? Im *planning* on building a quad rig soon, and if i do eventually(primarily itll be a VM box) ill probably want to watch HD stuff and do some moderate gaming. i figure if i sell this i can spend maybe $200 or so tops on an LCD, i should definitely be able to get something better for that much, right?

Paladin
01-29-2009, 10:10 PM
here (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm)
To install an ICC profile the directions for XP or Vista are down the page a little.

xtknight
01-31-2009, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by: palladium
Hey xtknight ( and anyone else who tried the monitor adjustment link in the OP) did you manage to get the features on the bottom sides of the test image ( the ones marked with numbers 1-3 and 252-255) working? I'm using a HP LP2475w and no matter how hard I try, I can't get them to show up without changing the gamma too much. I suppose the LP2475w should be capable of producing the subtle shades of grey, no?

TIA

Even on my LCD2690 it's hard to get these tones well distinguishable. But these high ends of the spectrum are overrated. I would not worry about them. Getting these three tones to show may sacrifice ALL the midtones greatly.

xtknight
01-31-2009, 04:14 AM
This is kind of interesting:

Behold the power of cheese (I mean e-IPS (http://www.displayblog.com/2009/01/28/lg-display-lpl-23-e-ips-1080p-lcd-monitor-panel/))

Soon, S-IPS at the cost of TN?

palladium
01-31-2009, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by: KevinC
here (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm)
To install an ICC profile the directions for XP or Vista are down the page a little.



Thanks, managed to get some of the black ones show up ( after tweaking the nvidia CP) but not the white ones. I do notice some banding though...

Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: palladium
Hey xtknight ( and anyone else who tried the monitor adjustment link in the OP) did you manage to get the features on the bottom sides of the test image ( the ones marked with numbers 1-3 and 252-255) working? I'm using a HP LP2475w and no matter how hard I try, I can't get them to show up without changing the gamma too much. I suppose the LP2475w should be capable of producing the subtle shades of grey, no?

TIA

Even on my LCD2690 it's hard to get these tones well distinguishable. But these high ends of the spectrum are overrated. I would not worry about them. Getting these three tones to show may sacrifice ALL the midtones greatly.

Ahh I see.. is there a way to know if I've sacrificed my midtones? ( now that I've managed to get some of the black to show up)

Thanks again for the replies.

rpsgc
01-31-2009, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by: xtknight
The HP isn't available in your area or you're just trying to save money?

I'll go with option number two. It's almost 200 ? cheaper. And it just might not have those pesky pink/green hue problems that the LP2475W has.


But then again I might just settle for a TN monitor... after all, it's for FPS gaming.

zod96
01-31-2009, 11:15 AM
When is the Dell 2209WA due out? I know its only going to be like less than $300 22 inch using an IPS panel. Just can't seem to find anywhere that has them. Also is it going to have a glossy screen?

icered
01-31-2009, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: icered
I was planning on getting a Benq E2200 HD Flat panel this weekend(My first transition from a CRT to a flat panel)
Specs are as below:
21.5" viewable
16:9 Aspect Ratio
1920x1080 Native resolution
5ms Response time
DVI-D with hdcp
HDMI port

Benq E2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1368&page=specifications)

While I was at the store I found out there was a cheaper version of the same monitor - the Benq T2200 HD. Its the same as its slightly more expensive brethren minus the HDMI port, the crappy speakers, the Senseye+Photo image tech and possibly the overdrive mechanism(Benq calls its AMA I guess)

Benq T2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1388&page=specifications)

Now the price difference between the two is about $30. My question is whether it is better to go for the cheaper version(the T2200HD which doesn't have the HDMI port)? Reading through forum posts I gather its easy to get an DVI-HDMI adapter if I need to, say connect a PS3/XBOX-360. (I don't own a console right now, but I might after, say 5-6 months)

Yeah a DVI-HDMI adapter should work. I think it's worth paying the extra for AMA (overdrive). Otherwise it might feel like you're using 5-years-old LCD response technology.

My second question is supposing I do get the DVI-HDMI adapter for the T2200 HD, what about audio? I have a logitech x-540 5.1 setup. How do I route multi-channel audio to the speaker set then?

That depends on the outputs of your console. If it has Dolby output that hook this up to a receiver. Otherwise you might be stuck with stereo. I'm not sure there's anything to "grab" audio from the HDMI and even then it seems you'd need a receiver (Dolby decoder) to get 5.1.

My third question is if indeed I get the E2200 HD (which has the HDMI port), how do I route the audio to my speaker system?(This monitor comes with a set of crappy speakers built-in).

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
-IceRed

The E2200HD doesn't have audio output (at least not 5.1), so you'd have to come up with some other solution.

Check this out: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hard.../x/xbox360hdmiavcable/ (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hdmiavcable/)

Thanks... Short, crisp and to the point!

One more twist to this though. While I was at the retail shop to get this monitor, unfortunately for me they had run of stock but offered me an enticing Samsung 2233SW (22" Full HD monitor without HDMI) at a lower price($20 less) instead. Am not sure what to make of this one though.

The new batch of Benq E2200HDs arrive in 3 days. Which one do I choose? Are the samsung ones inherently better than Benq and so blindly go for the Samsung? (However the Samsung has a slower response time of 5ms compared to 2ms for Benq)

xtknight
01-31-2009, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by: eivanov
hi guys,

I have a problem in choosing 24" monitor for general home usage. For now my options are Eizo S2431W and Eizo HD2442W but which one is better?

My video card is ATI HD4850 with 2 HDMI connectors but I can not find any information if I can connect both of them to Eizo HD2442W (one to its HDMI input for gaming and movies and the other to its DVI input for general purposes). Can anyone help on that? The idea behind this type of connection is to use so called Thrue mode which works only on HDMI. I'm not sure if dynamic contrast option works also on DVI or only on HDMI?

My research shows me that S2431W is the same as HD2442W without HDMI connectors, remote control and dynamic contrast. Is that correct? Thanks in advance for any information on that.

P.S. Sorry for my poor english - it's not my native language

The HD looks like it has more image features like adaptive contrast and so on. They both have S-PVA panels. I think the HD looks more attractive and a better overall package.

Dynamic contrast should work on any input.

Apparently the HD one has less input lag (maybe?) and also some things for media like 16-255 color range and pulldown support for 24fps film.

You could connect two video card output ports to the same monitor but this wouldn't do any good because you'd just have to switch between the two on the monitor????

xtknight
01-31-2009, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by: Lalakai
the LG W2241T..............i tried searching through this thread for info on it, but couldn't find it, so i'll break down and ask.

what are the differences between the W2241T the LG L227WTG?? I was just getting ready to buy the 227 when i seen a sale at BB for the 2241 at $209. Primary use will be gaming. Usually i'ld also check Egg's feedback but for some reason i can't access them right now.

and a definite word of thanks to xtknight for this thread. i've watched it grow into a huge success, and i've seen it linked on countless other sites. kudos to you.

The W2241T is matte, not glossy. It's only 21.6" but it's also wide gamut like the L227.

Probably not a whole lot of difference in performance but I still love the L227. Sorry I can't tell you any more about it.

Thanks for the kind words.

spiral529
02-01-2009, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by: zod96
When is the Dell 2209WA due out? I know its only going to be like less than $300 22 inch using an IPS panel. Just can't seem to find anywhere that has them. Also is it going to have a glossy screen?

This monitor has been available for the past week or so from Dell:

http://accessories.us.dell.com...=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825)

I am very tempted to get one. The only thing holding me back is the possible upcoming release of additional low-cost eIPS panels at higher resolutions, such as the 1920x1080 panel described here:

http://www.displayblog.com/200...80p-lcd-monitor-panel/ (http://www.displayblog.com/2009/01/28/lg-display-lpl-23-e-ips-1080p-lcd-monitor-panel/)

zod96
02-02-2009, 08:16 PM
Is the Dell 2209WA a glossy screen?

xtknight
02-03-2009, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by: spiral529
Originally posted by: zod96
When is the Dell 2209WA due out? I know its only going to be like less than $300 22 inch using an IPS panel. Just can't seem to find anywhere that has them. Also is it going to have a glossy screen?

This monitor has been available for the past week or so from Dell:

http://accessories.us.dell.com...=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825)

I am very tempted to get one. The only thing holding me back is the possible upcoming release of additional low-cost eIPS panels at higher resolutions, such as the 1920x1080 panel described here:

http://www.displayblog.com/200...80p-lcd-monitor-panel/ (http://www.displayblog.com/2009/01/28/lg-display-lpl-23-e-ips-1080p-lcd-monitor-panel/)

Wow. This is awesome.

Originally posted by: zod96
Is the Dell 2209WA a glossy screen?

Nope, matte.

xtknight
02-03-2009, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by: palladium
Originally posted by: KevinC
here (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm)
To install an ICC profile the directions for XP or Vista are down the page a little.



Thanks, managed to get some of the black ones show up ( after tweaking the nvidia CP) but not the white ones. I do notice some banding though...

Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: palladium
Hey xtknight ( and anyone else who tried the monitor adjustment link in the OP) did you manage to get the features on the bottom sides of the test image ( the ones marked with numbers 1-3 and 252-255) working? I'm using a HP LP2475w and no matter how hard I try, I can't get them to show up without changing the gamma too much. I suppose the LP2475w should be capable of producing the subtle shades of grey, no?

TIA

Even on my LCD2690 it's hard to get these tones well distinguishable. But these high ends of the spectrum are overrated. I would not worry about them. Getting these three tones to show may sacrifice ALL the midtones greatly.

Ahh I see.. is there a way to know if I've sacrificed my midtones? ( now that I've managed to get some of the black to show up)

Thanks again for the replies.

You could check a gradient I guess to see the difference with and without the correction. It's fairly easy to tell if anything has gone seriously awry. I have the gradlin tool on my site to help you with that, but it's a bit hard to find because I'm way too lazy to organize my site properly. Sorry.

http://lcdresource.com/mambo/i...k=view&id=28&Itemid=39 (http://lcdresource.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=39)

You can use any of them. They will all give you the same indication if anything has gone wrong.

xtknight
02-03-2009, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by: xSauronx
ok, in exchange for doing some work for someone, i got a new E207wfp from dell. linky (http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/dell-e207wfp/4505-3174_7-32135018.html)

its new in the box, and they are going for about $150 or so on ebay. Should I just sell this and find another lcd on sale somewhere? Im *planning* on building a quad rig soon, and if i do eventually(primarily itll be a VM box) ill probably want to watch HD stuff and do some moderate gaming. i figure if i sell this i can spend maybe $200 or so tops on an LCD, i should definitely be able to get something better for that much, right?

I would sell it. I cannot say I am much of a fan of this LCD.

But getting something better for $200? Hmm I don't know. Why not $250-300? Reach for the Dell 2209WA...

Sir Phobos
02-03-2009, 06:20 AM
Hey everyone, new member here. I recently purchased a BenQ E2400HD, and I love it so far. I plan on using it with a PS3 when it arrives in the mail, and I have some questions.

My main concern is input lag, and I read that the BenQ LCDs perform exceptionally well when it comes to that. For my purposes, I'm aiming for 8ms or below with this display. I'm not sure how it works since my PS3 isn't here yet, but I've read that the PS3 doesn't display true 1080p even when the checkbox is marked in the XMB. Now, I understand that input lag comes from a few sources:

1) When the image has to be scaled.

2) From postprocessing on HDTVs.

Since the native resolution of my display is 1920x1080, is there is a way to force the PS3 to output a game in 1080p (maybe uncheck all the boxes except for that?), and would it significantly decrease the input lag as opposed to playing on 720p?

My second question is about postprocessing. Is there any postprocessing on this (or any) LCD monitor when viewing a device connected to the HDMI input port that could increase input lag? If so, there is a 3rd party VGA cable for the PS3, which might eliminate the postprocessing and decrease input lag. I could also get an HDMI to DVI converter if that would avoid the postprocessing (if it exists) as well.

I apologize for the tentative questions, I plan on testing this display thoroughly when I get all the things I need in order to do so. But I would appreciate any responses from anyone who has had some experience with this or a similar LCD display. Thanks!

ZetaEpyon
02-03-2009, 03:23 PM
Well, my two Dell 2209WA monitors arrived over lunch.

I only had time to hook them up quickly, so no real testing done yet, but I'm very impressed. The stands are very solid, and my first impression is that the picture quality is stellar.
Not the setup I'll use, but for comparison... (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors.jpg)

At this point, my main regret is that I didn't order three of them! :D

I'll post some more impressions and pictures later tonight if I have time.

cogent
02-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Hi guys!

A few pages back I asked a question about the BenQ G2400WD and brightness. Thanks for answering, since then I have ordered it and it came in the mail today. Hopefully this isn't an idiotic question, but what mode should I put it in? Out of the box it displays what it calls "standard" mode and looks pretty good. Looking through the menus I see there's a "dynamics" mode. I assume that's something with dynamic contrast. Is that the mode that takes advantage of the displays full capabilities?

I'm sure the real answer to this is "do whatever looks better". But I guess my real question is what's the difference between "standard" and "dynamics" modes.

Thanks guys! You're awesome.

xtknight
02-03-2009, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by: icered
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: icered
I was planning on getting a Benq E2200 HD Flat panel this weekend(My first transition from a CRT to a flat panel)
Specs are as below:
21.5" viewable
16:9 Aspect Ratio
1920x1080 Native resolution
5ms Response time
DVI-D with hdcp
HDMI port

Benq E2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1368&page=specifications)

While I was at the store I found out there was a cheaper version of the same monitor - the Benq T2200 HD. Its the same as its slightly more expensive brethren minus the HDMI port, the crappy speakers, the Senseye+Photo image tech and possibly the overdrive mechanism(Benq calls its AMA I guess)

Benq T2200HD (http://benq.com/products/LCD/?product=1388&page=specifications)

Now the price difference between the two is about $30. My question is whether it is better to go for the cheaper version(the T2200HD which doesn't have the HDMI port)? Reading through forum posts I gather its easy to get an DVI-HDMI adapter if I need to, say connect a PS3/XBOX-360. (I don't own a console right now, but I might after, say 5-6 months)

Yeah a DVI-HDMI adapter should work. I think it's worth paying the extra for AMA (overdrive). Otherwise it might feel like you're using 5-years-old LCD response technology.

My second question is supposing I do get the DVI-HDMI adapter for the T2200 HD, what about audio? I have a logitech x-540 5.1 setup. How do I route multi-channel audio to the speaker set then?

That depends on the outputs of your console. If it has Dolby output that hook this up to a receiver. Otherwise you might be stuck with stereo. I'm not sure there's anything to "grab" audio from the HDMI and even then it seems you'd need a receiver (Dolby decoder) to get 5.1.

My third question is if indeed I get the E2200 HD (which has the HDMI port), how do I route the audio to my speaker system?(This monitor comes with a set of crappy speakers built-in).

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
-IceRed

The E2200HD doesn't have audio output (at least not 5.1), so you'd have to come up with some other solution.

Check this out: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hard.../x/xbox360hdmiavcable/ (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hdmiavcable/)

Thanks... Short, crisp and to the point!

One more twist to this though. While I was at the retail shop to get this monitor, unfortunately for me they had run of stock but offered me an enticing Samsung 2233SW (22" Full HD monitor without HDMI) at a lower price($20 less) instead. Am not sure what to make of this one though.

The new batch of Benq E2200HDs arrive in 3 days. Which one do I choose? Are the samsung ones inherently better than Benq and so blindly go for the Samsung? (However the Samsung has a slower response time of 5ms compared to 2ms for Benq)

Go for the E2200HDs. Some Samsungs have blue color tint issues. BenQs haven't had these issues.

GripS
02-04-2009, 09:35 PM
After much research and stumbling across this thread I finally had decided on the LG 227WT..... It's not listed as a WTG and I live in the US so not sure what is up there. Cheapest place I could find and it was free shipping(280 bucks). Too bad I only read the recommendations in the beginning otherwise I would have spotted the Dell 2209WA.

After searching for that I found out that last week they were selling them for a little over $200.00 + tax and shipping(seen a couple posts of invoices proving this). Tried calling Dell up today and low and behold they were on sale last week and that ended on the 31st(this is what i was told anyway). Just thought I would let everyone know that the too good to be true actually was true and now its over. Bummer....

Looks like a sweet panel. I saw a video showing all the diff positions you can put the monitor in..... pretty much unheard of to have those kind of positioning options. I'd like to see a decent 'real' review on this by someone who actually bought the monitor as i'm really torn on what I should do..... return the LG and go for the Dell??? Or will the Dell not be as good at gaming? (main purpose for monitor)

Thanks xtknight for sharing your knowledge on LCD monitors...... marketing is so misleading and I don't trust high profile review sites. I prefer first hand knowledge from people that use it for more then a few hours. Thanks much!

ungco
02-04-2009, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Well, my two Dell 2209WA monitors arrived over lunch.

I only had time to hook them up quickly, so no real testing done yet, but I'm very impressed. The stands are very solid, and my first impression is that the picture quality is stellar.
Not the setup I'll use, but for comparison... (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors.jpg)

At this point, my main regret is that I didn't order three of them! :D

I'll post some more impressions and pictures later tonight if I have time.
It would be great to hear your thoughts on the monitor and, if you so please, post up calibration settings. I took the plunge and received it yesterday (only three business days!). I haven't had much experience with IPS screens, save for the Cinema Displays at uni, but the colours seem to be pretty true on this Dell screen, although sharpness was a bit high out of the box. Definitely beats out my laptop's screen.

herbals
02-05-2009, 05:21 AM
are 16:9 monitors are bad choice for gaming? I play some older games too, like quake1
I want a very good gaming monitor

Im thinking about the Benq G2400WD and thats 16:10 #2 on gaming list OR the BenQ M2400HD which is 16:9

how does the Benq M2400HD stack up against it? To me it seems to be a better monitor, how does it compare for gaming? is 16:9 crap for gaming?

my store has: Benq E2200HD Full HD / Benq G2400WD / Benq M2400HD

ive never owned a LCD, and want a very good gaming one

thanks, very informative thread

ViRGE
02-05-2009, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: spiral529
Originally posted by: zod96
When is the Dell 2209WA due out? I know its only going to be like less than $300 22 inch using an IPS panel. Just can't seem to find anywhere that has them. Also is it going to have a glossy screen?

This monitor has been available for the past week or so from Dell:

http://accessories.us.dell.com...=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825)

I am very tempted to get one. The only thing holding me back is the possible upcoming release of additional low-cost eIPS panels at higher resolutions, such as the 1920x1080 panel described here:

http://www.displayblog.com/200...80p-lcd-monitor-panel/ (http://www.displayblog.com/2009/01/28/lg-display-lpl-23-e-ips-1080p-lcd-monitor-panel/)

Wow. This is awesome.

Originally posted by: zod96
Is the Dell 2209WA a glossy screen?

Nope, matte.Here's the million dollar question then, and I hoping you know the answer xtknight.:P What did they do to make IPS panels cheap all of a sudden? Same angles, same 8-bit color, great response time, etc. It leaves me wondering what the trick was to make this things so much cheaper, and what the downsides may be.

xtknight
02-05-2009, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: spiral529
Originally posted by: zod96
When is the Dell 2209WA due out? I know its only going to be like less than $300 22 inch using an IPS panel. Just can't seem to find anywhere that has them. Also is it going to have a glossy screen?

This monitor has been available for the past week or so from Dell:

http://accessories.us.dell.com...=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825)

I am very tempted to get one. The only thing holding me back is the possible upcoming release of additional low-cost eIPS panels at higher resolutions, such as the 1920x1080 panel described here:

http://www.displayblog.com/200...80p-lcd-monitor-panel/ (http://www.displayblog.com/2009/01/28/lg-display-lpl-23-e-ips-1080p-lcd-monitor-panel/)

Wow. This is awesome.

Originally posted by: zod96
Is the Dell 2209WA a glossy screen?

Nope, matte.Here's the million dollar question then, and I hoping you know the answer xtknight.:P What did they do to make IPS panels cheap all of a sudden? Same angles, same 8-bit color, great response time, etc. It leaves me wondering what the trick was to make this things so much cheaper, and what the downsides may be.

I don't think IPS panels have ever been that expensive. They just seemed that way.

Remember when HP sold the 20.1" LP2065 for $300? Many of them had an IPS panel.

Lower class IPS panels (not grade A) combined with dithering and some uniformity problems probably yield you an eIPS panel.

I doubt the cell structure is any different. Most modern S-IPS panels have a dual-domain alignment of liquid crystals as far as I know. Maybe eIPS is single-domain. I'm not sure.

You can expect the same viewing angle performance and decent response time. Maybe you can expect poor default gamma correction (in the 2209WA's case). eIPS has nothing to do with whether the panel is wide gamut or not, either. These seem like a better choice for a lot of people than TN or PVA. I think better than TN for everyone. But, better than PVA may depend on whether you want high contrast or not.

There have been a lot of versions of IPS.

http://www.ips-alpha.co.jp/en/technology/ips.html

eIPS may be the same as S-TFT along with some improvements in yield? If anything, it's the lowest class IPS available, which still has decent performance but probably lower contrast than other IPS modes like AS-IPS or H-IPS. H-IPS is said to improve contrast ratio to 750:1 from 700:1. This proved true in my testing. So eIPS will be 700:1 or lower, very likely. My guess is 500:1 for most eIPS panels which is not bad at all. It is lower contrast than TN, but the overall performance is so much better it's worth the contrast sacrifice. Photo editing favors good color rendering and viewing angle stability over contrast.

eIPS will use 6-bit drivers. As certain as I am about most or all TNs using 6-bit drivers, the same goes for low-cost eIPS. Hopefully they'll use good FRC+dithering methods so it's not too noticeable. This will be most noticeable in the dark tones simply because our eyes are most sensitive to them. It's going to be harder to see dithering in midtones and hopefully lighter tones.

And if they use less domains you might expect possibly slightly sloppier viewing angles, but better than TN and PVA still probably. I'm speculating. I'm not an LCD developer. I'm just going off of what I've read and the 5% part of the academic papers that I actually understand.

Whether or not to use overdrive is up to the implementer. Response time is very likely the same. Input lag should be low.

Given the history of S-IPS panels from Grade A to lower grades, I'd expect eIPS to have more QC problems than any of the other panel types right now.

xtknight
02-05-2009, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by: Sir Phobos
Hey everyone, new member here. I recently purchased a BenQ E2400HD, and I love it so far. I plan on using it with a PS3 when it arrives in the mail, and I have some questions.

My main concern is input lag, and I read that the BenQ LCDs perform exceptionally well when it comes to that. For my purposes, I'm aiming for 8ms or below with this display. I'm not sure how it works since my PS3 isn't here yet, but I've read that the PS3 doesn't display true 1080p even when the checkbox is marked in the XMB. Now, I understand that input lag comes from a few sources:

1) When the image has to be scaled.

2) From postprocessing on HDTVs.

Since the native resolution of my display is 1920x1080, is there is a way to force the PS3 to output a game in 1080p (maybe uncheck all the boxes except for that?), and would it significantly decrease the input lag as opposed to playing on 720p?

Sorry, no clue about PS3s. Shouldn't it be outputting a geometry of 1080p already, even if the image isn't truly 1080p? (i.e., yes the PS3's 1080p might be 720p upscaled, but the geometric output is 1920x1080 still.)

My second question is about postprocessing. Is there any postprocessing on this (or any) LCD monitor when viewing a device connected to the HDMI input port that could increase input lag?

On the E2400HD? I doubt it, since it's not a TV. Processing is generally connection independent if it occurs. Meaning, it happens on all connections. But, you can probably expect the least amount of processing (whether that be the same or less) on digital connections such as DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort.

If so, there is a 3rd party VGA cable for the PS3, which might eliminate the postprocessing and decrease input lag. I could also get an HDMI to DVI converter if that would avoid the postprocessing (if it exists) as well.

Cables do not affect input lag. And if you are using this cable as a detour to use an input of lesser lag, I don't think that will work because there is no input with lesser lag than a digital, typically. I mean it's possible that VGA will have less lag since it may be able to be fed directly to the TFT, but as long as VGA is still 'postprocessed' (i.e., perhaps buffered for overdrive or adaptive contrast), I doubt it.

I apologize for the tentative questions, I plan on testing this display thoroughly when I get all the things I need in order to do so. But I would appreciate any responses from anyone who has had some experience with this or a similar LCD display. Thanks!

ViRGE
02-05-2009, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by: xtknight
eIPS will use 6-bit drivers. As certain as I am about most or all TNs using 6-bit drivers, the same goes for low-cost eIPS. Hopefully they'll use good FRC+dithering methods so it's not too noticeable. This will be most noticeable in the dark tones simply because our eyes are most sensitive to them. It's going to be harder to see dithering in midtones and hopefully lighter tones.Everything before that was reasonable, and then you mentioned 6-bit color.:| What a waste of the IPS name.:frown:

xtknight
02-05-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Well, my two Dell 2209WA monitors arrived over lunch.

I only had time to hook them up quickly, so no real testing done yet, but I'm very impressed. The stands are very solid, and my first impression is that the picture quality is stellar.
Not the setup I'll use, but for comparison... (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors.jpg)

At this point, my main regret is that I didn't order three of them! :D

I'll post some more impressions and pictures later tonight if I have time.

Wow. Please be sure to give us your thoughts on these miraculous new pieces of equipment!

Originally posted by: cogent
Hi guys!

A few pages back I asked a question about the BenQ G2400WD and brightness. Thanks for answering, since then I have ordered it and it came in the mail today. Hopefully this isn't an idiotic question, but what mode should I put it in? Out of the box it displays what it calls "standard" mode and looks pretty good. Looking through the menus I see there's a "dynamics" mode. I assume that's something with dynamic contrast. Is that the mode that takes advantage of the displays full capabilities?

I'm sure the real answer to this is "do whatever looks better". But I guess my real question is what's the difference between "standard" and "dynamics" modes.

Thanks guys! You're awesome.

The WD model (standing for Wide, Dynamic) features dynamic contrast.

Dynamic contrast adjusts the backlight of the scene depending on what is being shown. It is to save power and give you a lower black level when you need it. The problem is, you can see the backlight rising and falling (like pulsation) and that can be distracting, particularly for general use but also for other things like contrasty movies.

I recommend most people use standard. I rarely, if ever, use dynamic contrast because it messes up the relative contrast of a whole set of frames when the backlight is different during each frame. That means you get a pretty messed up looking stream of pictures, with some having TONS of dark detail when they shouldn't. Face it: our eyes don't have dynamic contrast [well ok, the iris dilates in dark but not THAT much and certainly not that fast], so why should our monitor? That's like turning the lights off during the day and having everything look exactly the same because your eyes compensated for the lack of light within a second. Weird isn't it? And comparing an 8-bit dynamic contrast algorithm to our rods and cones is pretty insulting. Of course the dynamic contrast performed with 8-bit is going to look a lot worse.

xtknight
02-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: xtknight
eIPS will use 6-bit drivers. As certain as I am about most or all TNs using 6-bit drivers, the same goes for low-cost eIPS. Hopefully they'll use good FRC+dithering methods so it's not too noticeable. This will be most noticeable in the dark tones simply because our eyes are most sensitive to them. It's going to be harder to see dithering in midtones and hopefully lighter tones.Everything before that was reasonable, and then you mentioned 6-bit color.:| What a waste of the IPS name.:frown:

HP LP2065 is 6-bit as well, along with the Dell 2007FP and Dell 2007WFP. These LCDs did not look that bad, and nor will eIPS panels. TN are also 6-bit, and eIPS cannot be worse than TN. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how FRC works that is perpetuating the myth of 6-bit being "clearly inferior". In a double blind test, most people probably couldn't tell if you showed them a set of average pictures on the monitor. On the last 20 (so maybe even 60) tones of the black scale lined up right next to each other, maybe, as our eyes are quite sensitive to these. It would depend on other factors like gamma as well. Sure you can have an 8-bit driver: but oops, even though there are 256 tones, is the distance between each tone the same (L* curve, or whatever we want it to be), and how can you ensure that?

There is a higher likelihood of dithering and FRC having a more reliable tone response curve, even if the color itself looks a little dirty, which is precisely the reason the LCD2690 does not even do without some dithering as is blatantly visible here in a test case:

http://xtknight.50webs.com/lcd26/page4.htm

( At the time I wrote the review, I wasn't quite sure, but this pretty much eased my doubts: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php )

The LCD2690 probably uses the highest form there, which is an 8-bit driver and some dithering to raise the bit depth a little. Then it became more clear. Since DVI is a digital connection, this noise should not be occuring without some form of dithering.

To say dithering is unacceptable is akin to saying that we would rather use a TN than some of the 6-bit VA and IPS monitors out there, and this is pretty asinine in my opinion!

Dithering and FRC can produce quite a reliable image, and I can tell you that it's not the reason I dislike TNs. It's mainly for the viewing angles. Just the way the viewing angles work will kill the resulting bit depth a little. A 6-bit eIPS will look better than a 6-bit TN. You can quote me on this one any day. :)

Keep in mind, there's a lot of things I don't know either. This is all just speculation until I have one in my hands. You can pretty much infer that since lower S-IPS panels are 6-bit, that eIPS will also be, especially since they are targeting the same low-cost area that TNs are. My point is, dithering is hardly even visible except in large blocks of the exact same color. For every fourth tone, you won't need dithering.

Just for clarification: (2^8)-(2^6) = 2^2=4.

Edit: sorry for editing this post a lot.

The point of dithering is to ensure you're getting something, not to rob you of something. The tone may be noisier, but it may also be more visible than most true 8-bit monitors because most true 8-bit monitors don't have the response curve necessary to make it actually look decent. And when we're talking about a couple pixels of noise, that might even be more reliable for photo editing than an uncalibrated 8-bit LCD since at least it's visible at ALL. And this is irrelevant to panel type.

I'll take some slightly visible dithering grids on darker pages (as I experience now with my L227WT) over a TN panel's viewing angles.

When I said "eIPS will be 6-bit" I was about 90% sure, but I did not get any underground info when I made that post so just keep that in mind. Besides, if this is simply a simple manufacturing or yield breakthough rather than downgrading components then maybe we can expect 8-bit eIPS panels. I just doubt it. At least from manufacturers like Dell and HP. Don't count your chickens, and assume the worst. I don't believe panel type really has any relevance to what DAC is used, but there will definitely be a trend of 6-bitness in eIPS as there was in affordable S-IPS and VA panels.

Sir Phobos
02-05-2009, 03:38 PM
xtknight: Thanks for the response! I'll post up again if I'm able to do some input lag tests with my display.

dguy6789
02-05-2009, 09:20 PM
Anyone know a good place to buy a DVI-D cable for my LG LCD? Newegg wants $15 for their cheapest one and $10 shipping for it.

xtknight
02-05-2009, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Anyone know a good place to buy a DVI-D cable for my LG LCD? Newegg wants $15 for their cheapest one and $10 shipping for it.

monoprice.com ?

herbals
02-06-2009, 12:54 AM
What are the best GAMING screens right now, im looking tobuy a screen very soon.
I posted on this page a few posts up but noanswers yet. Please help:)

are the Benq E2400HD and the M2400HD essentially the same screen with the M having USB ports and a camera?

I want a fast gaming screen preferably 24' , i still play alot ofolder games too

please some advice, thanks.

GripS
02-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by: herbals
What are the best GAMING screens right now, im looking tobuy a screen very soon.
I posted on this page a few posts up but noanswers yet. Please help:)

are the Benq E2400HD and the M2400HD essentially the same screen with the M having USB ports and a camera?

I want a fast gaming screen preferably 24' , i still play alot ofolder games too

please some advice, thanks.

See the first page of the thread and scroll down. Recommendations are right there. Looks like the BenQ G2400WD is the one your after.

ZetaEpyon
02-06-2009, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by: ungco
It would be great to hear your thoughts on the monitor and, if you so please, post up calibration settings. I took the plunge and received it yesterday (only three business days!). I haven't had much experience with IPS screens, save for the Cinema Displays at uni, but the colours seem to be pretty true on this Dell screen, although sharpness was a bit high out of the box. Definitely beats out my laptop's screen.

Originally posted by: xtknight
Wow. Please be sure to give us your thoughts on these miraculous new pieces of equipment!

Sorry about the delay, been a busy couple of days. :)

I have a few new photos, but I'm not sure how useful they'll be in terms of demonstrating the image quality of the monitors. Getting meaningful photos of monitors in action is notoriously diffucult.

Image samples
Contrast on 4:3 image (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors2.jpg)
Ignoring the slight blurriness due to shaky hands (:)), you can see there's not really any noticeable backlight bleeding on these LCDs. Definitely a massive upgrade from the old 17" I had been using.

Matte finish, nice viewing angles (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors3.jpg)
As you move more and more off-axis, the image does get a little bit lighter, but there's definitely no serious color shift like you would see in a TN panel. In this particular image, the glare on the center monitor is actually from a window off to the left, not any issue with off-angle viewing. There is also no purple or green tint when viewing off-axis.

Several people had mentioned the "sparkle" in Dell's anti-glare coating. I can see it if I'm looking at a pure white window, but other than that, it doesn't seem noticeable at all. When not pixel-peeping, and actually just doing stuff, I don't notice it at all. Caveat: I do use a pair of Dell monitors at work, which probably have a similar coating, so it may be that I'm already used to it and it doesn't bother me too much because of that.

A (bad) gaming shot (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors4.jpg)
The only game I've really tested so far is Final Fantasy XI, which admittedly is not really the best sample for gaming performance for a whole host of reasons. Still, I don't notice any significant input lag, although if there is any, it would certainly be more noticeable in a shooter, rather than an old MMORPG. I can't really comment on blur or ghosting, FFXI is capped at 30fps due to some lame old PS2 compatibilities, so it would be almost impossible to really make a useful comment based on that.

There were also some questions about dithering. I haven't really noticed it in any cases, even when looking at test patterns. If it does dither, it's really good at it from my perspective.

General settings
At the moment I'm not using an ICC profile, and I adjusted the monitor settings as follows:
Mode: Standard
Brightness: 25
Contrast: 75

I found that even with drastically reduced brightness, looking at it was pretty uncomfortable. I reduced the gamma in the nVidia control panel a bit, and that helped with viewing comfort quite a bit, as well as improving overall contrast a little, I think.

Both copies that I have look identical with the same settings, which is a vast improvement over any other multi-monitor setup that I've used in the past. At work, I have two monitors of the same model, and I cannot get them to look the same, no matter what.

With the settings that I'm using now, I do feel that the image is a little bit too blue, so I may look into adjusting that sometime this weekend.

Overall
Overall, I think these monitors probably would be worth close to $300 each to me. For that price, I think that I would really like to see a little bit higher resolution, perhaps 1920x1080. However, for the $200 price that I got each one for, I feel like I got a real steal, and almost wish that I had ordered a third.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you2
02-06-2009, 12:23 PM
But they currently cost $300 :(

Couple of questions:
How solid are the blacks? One of my 'complaint' with non-ips monitors is that the blacks are pretty weak (esp at night - i.,e, low light in the room) (the hp i tried had solid blacks but lousy backlighting).
How good (even) is the back lighting - esp in the corners which tend to be a weak point ?
How well does the monitor handle 4:3 images (one of the reason I prefer 20inch but can't find anything good right now).

Thanks!


Originally posted by: ZetaEpyon
Originally posted by: ungco
It would be great to hear your thoughts on the monitor and, if you so please, post up calibration settings. I took the plunge and received it yesterday (only three business days!). I haven't had much experience with IPS screens, save for the Cinema Displays at uni, but the colours seem to be pretty true on this Dell screen, although sharpness was a bit high out of the box. Definitely beats out my laptop's screen.

Originally posted by: xtknight
Wow. Please be sure to give us your thoughts on these miraculous new pieces of equipment!

Sorry about the delay, been a busy couple of days. :)

I have a few new photos, but I'm not sure how useful they'll be in terms of demonstrating the image quality of the monitors. Getting meaningful photos of monitors in action is notoriously diffucult.

Image samples
Contrast on 4:3 image (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors2.jpg)
Ignoring the slight blurriness due to shaky hands (:)), you can see there's not really any noticeable backlight bleeding on these LCDs. Definitely a massive upgrade from the old 17" I had been using.

Matte finish, nice viewing angles (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors3.jpg)
As you move more and more off-axis, the image does get a little bit lighter, but there's definitely no serious color shift like you would see in a TN panel. In this particular image, the glare on the center monitor is actually from a window off to the left, not any issue with off-angle viewing. There is also no purple or green tint when viewing off-axis.

Several people had mentioned the "sparkle" in Dell's anti-glare coating. I can see it if I'm looking at a pure white window, but other than that, it doesn't seem noticeable at all. When not pixel-peeping, and actually just doing stuff, I don't notice it at all. Caveat: I do use a pair of Dell monitors at work, which probably have a similar coating, so it may be that I'm already used to it and it doesn't bother me too much because of that.

A (bad) gaming shot (http://images.theyarden.net/monitors4.jpg)
The only game I've really tested so far is Final Fantasy XI, which admittedly is not really the best sample for gaming performance for a whole host of reasons. Still, I don't notice any significant input lag, although if there is any, it would certainly be more noticeable in a shooter, rather than an old MMORPG. I can't really comment on blur or ghosting, FFXI is capped at 30fps due to some lame old PS2 compatibilities, so it would be almost impossible to really make a useful comment based on that.

There were also some questions about dithering. I haven't really noticed it in any cases, even when looking at test patterns. If it does dither, it's really good at it from my perspective.

General settings
At the moment I'm not using an ICC profile, and I adjusted the monitor settings as follows:
Mode: Standard
Brightness: 25
Contrast: 75

I found that even with drastically reduced brightness, looking at it was pretty uncomfortable. I reduced the gamma in the nVidia control panel a bit, and that helped with viewing comfort quite a bit, as well as improving overall contrast a little, I think.

Both copies that I have look identical with the same settings, which is a vast improvement over any other multi-monitor setup that I've used in the past. At work, I have two monitors of the same model, and I cannot get them to look the same, no matter what.

With the settings that I'm using now, I do feel that the image is a little bit too blue, so I may look into adjusting that sometime this weekend.

Overall
Overall, I think these monitors probably would be worth close to $300 each to me. For that price, I think that I would really like to see a little bit higher resolution, perhaps 1920x1080. However, for the $200 price that I got each one for, I feel like I got a real steal, and almost wish that I had ordered a third.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

ZetaEpyon
02-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by: you2
But they currently cost $300 :(

Couple of questions:
How solid are the blacks? One of my 'complaint' with non-ips monitors is that the blacks are pretty weak (esp at night - i.,e, low light in the room) (the hp i tried had solid blacks but lousy backlighting).
How good (even) is the back lighting - esp in the corners which tend to be a weak point ?
How well does the monitor handle 4:3 images (one of the reason I prefer 20inch but can't find anything good right now).

Thanks!

The blacks are pretty good to my eyes. A far cry better than my old monitor, but it's always going to be a matter of perception. I do think there is a little bit of black crush with the settings I have right now, but might be able to reduce that with an ICC profile or better calibration.

The backlight is really even, I have not yet noticed any significant issues with that. It probably would have been most noticeable in the 2nd image that I posted. Since it's a 4:3 video, backlight issues would have been pretty noticeable on the left and right sides.

I think it handles 4:3 just fine, but I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Obviously, it pillar-boxes, but I think you can also set it to stretch the image if you had, say, a game console or something hooked up to it by DVI.

10e
02-06-2009, 01:26 PM
I just received my Dell 2209WA from Dell Canada, and I couldn't be happier. I'll be posting a link later on this weekend with full stats/calibration/impressions on this thing.

XTKnight, I would be inclined to agree with you about a 6-bit per channel e-IPS panel for cost cutting purposes, but after having used this display for the past 1.5 hours, I can honestly say that I don't see any dithering or FRC artifacts/noise coming from this screen. If there are, they are so hard to see, that they are effectively not there.

This panel reminds me a fair bit of my older Dell 2005FPW with less of that anti-glare sparkle effect, and seemingly less input lag. Also, viewing angles seem to be as good as most IPS screens out there. When I get it in a darker place than my office cubicle, I'll have photos of it with blacks to show if there is any intense off-angle hazing on dark colors.

Cheers.

ZetaEpyon
02-06-2009, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by: 10e
I just received my Dell 2209WA from Dell Canada, and I couldn't be happier. I'll be posting a link later on this weekend with full stats/calibration/impressions on this thing.

XTKnight, I would be inclined to agree with you about a 6-bit per channel e-IPS panel for cost cutting purposes, but after having used this display for the past 1.5 hours, I can honestly say that I don't see any dithering or FRC artifacts/noise coming from this screen. If there are, they are so hard to see, that they are effectively not there.

This panel reminds me a fair bit of my older Dell 2005FPW with less of that anti-glare sparkle effect, and seemingly less input lag. Also, viewing angles seem to be as good as most IPS screens out there. When I get it in a darker place than my office cubicle, I'll have photos of it with blacks to show if there is any intense off-angle hazing on dark colors.

Cheers.

Sounds like your initial impressions are similar to my own; I'll definitely be looking forward to your more detailed take. :)