Best heatsink for P5B-VM + Ultra Microfly (or X-Qpack) based SFF

[MrNeutrino]

I'm planning to build a C2D SFF system based on the P5B-VM MB installed in the Ultra Microfly (or X-Qpack) case.

However, there seem to be quite a few threads across the internet complaining about height restrictions limiting heatsink choices. Moreover, I haven't found any threads here specifically answering the following two questions so starting a new thread instead.

I have two questions for all the owners of this MB + case combination:


1. What is the heatsink+fan combination you have had the best success with, when using Asus P5B-VM + Microfly / X-Qpack case? (read: quietest, best cooling possible)

2. Your CPU + case temps at idle and load with this HSF setup?


I'm looking for a heatsink that doesn't require any major mods. Ideally something that can be dropped in as-is and work without much effort. Also, unless I absolutely must, I'm only looking for air-cooled solution, nothing water cooled.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

[Talcite]

hmm... the HSF only has a 78mm clearance. I know the old zalman CNPS7000 is short enough. The 8800 should also be short enough.

While I don't own the microfly, I'm looking at another SFF case that has the exact same height restriction, so i'm telling you all the cooling solutions i've come across so far. The stock cooler also works btw.

[Sentrosi2121]

Heatsink/fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835200014)
I just bought this for a A64 build I'm doing for my mother. She's not going to use the PC for anything other than email and web browsing. I put it into the Aspire X-Q pack which is similar to what you're building. I've got about 1/4" clearance between the fan and one of the bars.

[MrNeutrino]

Talcite, thanks for sharing the 78mm number! That was partly what I was looking for. Is this figure from the base of the case -or- MB to the sheet-metal cross-bar on top? Is this from actual measurement or some review (if latter, can you share a pointer)?

BTW, the CNPS7000 won't fit on Socket T (775) without an additional kit from Zalman which further raises its height by ~14-15mm according to Newegg, but still good to know my options. Thanks, looks like the CNPS8000 (no 8800) is a nice HSF indeed! Don't know why I missed it when browsing their products.


Sentrosi2121, while this is an AMD-only HSF (and a nice price for it!), its dimensions (height) from Newegg show 45 + 25 = 70mm + ~.25' clearence = ~78mm. This seems to match Talcite's figure (78mm). Great, this is quite helpful.


Are there any other HSFs folks have been successful using with P5B-VM + this enclosure combination?

Can the owners of CNPS8000, share their noise / cooling performance as well as P5B-VM fit (cap/memory obstructions) experiences here?

[VooDooAddict]

Since you aren't talking about overclocking at all (Which i understand is difficult with the G965 chipset anyway) ... what's the motivation to use a non-stock cooler? C2D chips run pretty cool stock and the stock Intel HSF isn't terribly noisy.

[MrNeutrino]

There are a few reasons I'm not considering the stock HSF:
- may not buy a retail processor
- I'd rather eek out as much silence out of my setup as possible for a few bucks more
- I want as much cooling buffer as I can get within reason, without compromising on noise. This way I can move this portable system in 80-90F+ temperatures (worst case) without worrying about the extra few degrees + SFF case causing system instability.

Any suggestions on any other high-performing HSFs for the Asus P5B-VM + 'Microfly' (not the shorter Aspire X-Q pack) case combination?

Thanks.

[VooDooAddict]

I've read that some people use this without the fan...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835220012

as long as you have a downward facing 120MM Power supply fan it should move enough air for you.

It's pricey though at that price I'd give the Zalman CNPS8000 a nod (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118005) sure seems made for the Q-Pack/MicroFly/Silverstone SG01 sized cases.

[MrNeutrino]

Thanks VooDooAddict. Hadn't noticed the NT06 so far. That one looks like a decent option besides the CNPS8000.

Sounds like between these few options, I should be set.

Looking forward to the system upgrade!

[Treripica]

MrNeutrino

I was curious to see how your rig turned out. I'm looking to do a similar X-Qpack config and wanted to know what HSF you went, if you replaced the PSU, and what you are using to cool the NB.

[shabby]

Anandtech did a review of the microfly and said that the zalman 7000 just barely fits, zalman lists its height at 62mm. The additionaly 775 retention bracket doesnt raise the height of the cooler, it just sits around the socket.
The zalman 8000 has a height of 62.5mm, which will probably still fit. And with 4 heatpipes it'll probably do a better job then the zalman 7000.
My microfly came with the v-series 400watt psu, i'll be replacing it with a 350watt enermax. Its the same size so it'll fit right in. If you have anything bigger you just need to do some trimming with a dremel.

[MrNeutrino]

Treripica, just after I posted this last, I noticed on the web in one or two different places that C2D prices are due to drop in April. As painful as it is to wait around for another month or two, I'm pushing out the build until after the price-drop.

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that no one who might actually have built this exact combination, has replied in this thread. On some more thought, I'm concerned about the cooling performance of the NT06 even with a 120mm PSU fan 'sucking' air on top of it. Pulling air up vs. pushing it on the heatpipe, grill and small heatsink below, in my mind sounds less than optimal for cooling.

I'm also concerned using the CNPS 8000 HSF since that fan will be blowing downward while the PSU fan sitting just above it, will be pulling its own air upward into the PSU. That sounds like a recipe for disaster (very little clearance btwn. two different fans blowing in opposite directions).

shabby, what's the deal with PSUs and the microfly case?! I wasn't aware microfly cases had this issue. I thought the whole of standard ATX PSUs not fitting in xqpack was resolved when going from the older / shallower xqpack to the deeper chassis of the microfly. Am I missing something??

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: MrNeutrino
shabby, what's the deal with PSUs and the microfly case?! I wasn't aware microfly cases had this issue. I thought the whole of standard ATX PSUs not fitting in xqpack was resolved when going from the older / shallower xqpack to the deeper chassis of the microfly. Am I missing something??


You can fit a standard ATX PSU in the QPack by using 170mm optical drives (shorter drives) instead of the 200mm (?) optical drives.

The microfly is a little bit deeper though, so there is not as big a need to use shorter optical drives with a standard PSU.

[MrNeutrino]

Thanks Brainonska511, what you said is what I recall reading too. That there should be no problem using a standard ATX PSU with a standard optical drive.

On the topic of PSU + optical drive, how do you tell the depth of the drives? For example, here are two I'm looking at:
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106046
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151141

I don't see any dimension details there.


Also, a bump to have anyone and everyone who has built this exact MB + case config, post their HSF, PSU, and optical drive details here. Let's keep this compatibility thread for this config. going!

I know there are others like Treripica and me who are interested in this setup or have already built it. :)

[rivot]

This is basically the same problem I am having. I have the xqpack case, with an amd 3800 in it. Stock heatsink, psu and so on. Its alot quieter than my last pc, but it could do with some improvements.

So from what I have read, changing the 120mm exhaust fan to one of those Scythe S-Flex fans are alot quieter. Then it comes down to the psu and heatsink. The stock heatsink doesnt seem too bad, and Im not sure what would fit in that small area anyway. Right now my cpu is running around 21-23° which is a big jump from my super hot amd 2600+.
So I can change the psu? One of those enermax ones, someone told me would be nice and quiet.

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: MrNeutrino
Thanks Brainonska511, what you said is what I recall reading too. That there should be no problem using a standard ATX PSU with a standard optical drive.

On the topic of PSU + optical drive, how do you tell the depth of the drives? For example, here are two I'm looking at:
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106046
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151141

I don't see any dimension details there.


Also, a bump to have anyone and everyone who has built this exact MB + case config, post their HSF, PSU, and optical drive details here. Let's keep this compatibility thread for this config. going!

I know there are others like Treripica and me who are interested in this setup or have already built it. :)


I know that the Lite-On ones are shorter. I don't know about the Samsung. NEC ones tend to be the longer variety.

As for the PSU I use: Enermax Noisetaker E425P (420W).

Edit:
You can find the dimensions of the optical drives on the manufacturer's website. Both the samsung and the lite-on drives are 170mm long (which is the shorter kind, the longer drives are 190mm).

[MrNeutrino]

Thanks Brainonska511, will check out mfg. websites. Meanwhile, glad to hear that Lite-On makes the cut.


Anyone else with this config. have other heatsink suggestions?

Thx.

[Gillbot]

Th samsung SH-S182M is 170mm.

Dimensions
(WxHxD mm) 148.2 x 42 x 170

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Optical...riter_SH_S182M.asp?page=Specifications (http://www.samsung.com/Products/OpticalDiscDrive/DVDWriter/OpticalDiscDrive_DVDWriter_SH_S182M.asp?page=Speci fications)

[Treripica]

LIte On's SH-16A7S (http://us.liteonit.com/us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=198&Itemid=67&limit=1&limitstart=1)


Dimension 145(W) x 41.3(H) x 170(D) mm

I have the Lite-On in my X-Qpack and the back is flush with the end of the 5.25" bracket.
I'm also looking to hold off on my processor purchase until April, but the P5B-VM are down to $118 on newegg, it might be my next purchase. :)

I haven't finalized my PSU, but I did just receive my Raptor 10k 150 yesterday. They come in a satin-esque drawstring bag inside the anti-static bag, like you'd receive sunglasses. I was rather amused by that.

[shabby]

Originally posted by: MrNeutrino
shabby, what's the deal with PSUs and the microfly case?! I wasn't aware microfly cases had this issue. I thought the whole of standard ATX PSUs not fitting in xqpack was resolved when going from the older / shallower xqpack to the deeper chassis of the microfly. Am I missing something??



If you have a bigger psu you need to trim some of the railing with a dremel, thats all.

I just finished my microfly install and ran into a little problem, when using an ide hd and cdrom the ide cable is too short. Not the cable itself is short, but the distant between the first and second ide connector. To solve the problem you need to stick the hd into the floppy holder, otherwise run an sata hd. I almost flipped when the cable couldnt reach the hd.

[MrNeutrino]

Treipica, you may want to check out these two PSUs: Seasonic S12 550 / Corsair HX520 (silentpcreview.com -> Reference/Recommended -> Recommended Power Supplies). Some of the quietest and most efficient PSUs.

Thanks shabby, that's what I was looking for. If it's just a bit of sheet-metal to be trimmed on the rail, not a big deal.

What HSF did you use in your build? CNPS 8000? If so, how's the clearance + temperatures?

[shabby]

I put a zalman 7000 on a e4300. My temps are in the upper 20's when in the bios. I havent tested it in windows yet since im still stripping components from winxp so it would be nice and lean for my htpc.
When sliding the mobo tray in there was still around 1cm of clearance before it hit the case. I will have a zalman 7700 by tomorrow, the fan is not as quiet as i hoped on the 7000, maybe the bigger one in the 7700 will be quieter.

Heres a pic of the clearance http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zalman7000ns7.jpg

Update:
I just installed pc probe and core temp in xp and the temps are a bit umm... unbelievable http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tempsjl8.jpg
The zalman 7000 fan is running at its lowest setting too, very wierd.

[MrNeutrino]

Nice, looks like at least the 7000 gives pretty good clearance.

As for the temps., if you can keep that 16c on the CPU with that config, I might just go with the 7000 for that reason. :D

BTW, while there is a 1cm clearence on top, are you sure the wider 120mm fan based 7700 will fit in the microfly? Check out the dimensions for the 7700 series HSF:
136(L) x 136(W) x 67(H)mm (http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=145&code=009). That's almost 3cm wider than the 7000 series HSF @ 109 (L) x 109 (W) x 62 (H) (http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=141&code=009). By the looks of your microfly config. picture, the 7000 already seems pretty flush up against the side of the case.

That said, if you do get it installed, do share the pics, temps and noise quality with us! Thanks.

[shabby]

Theres 2cm of space available between the 7000 and the edge of the case. With the 7700 being 2.7cm wider in diamater, that means that its 1.35cm closer to the edge of the case. So it should fit with .65cm to spare :D
Im surprised the temps are lower then ambient, i almost dont believe it. Once the 7700 is installed i'll post an update.

[Treripica]

Thanks, MrNeutrino. I've been checking out the Silverstone ST50EF-Plus. JonnyGuru.com was happy (http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=23) with it, but I want modular cabling. The Corsair looks good, especially if it's more quiet than my current candidates. Aesthetically speaking, it matches the case in terms of color as well.

[Treripica]

Originally posted by: shabby
Im surprised the temps are lower then ambient, i almost dont believe it.

I thought that normally, you couldn't cool something past ambient. Odd. Then again, I ran Fedora 6 on a T60 that was convinced I was running a non-existent add-on video card at -198F. *shrug*

I saw the coretemp screenshot, what was PC Probe showing? I have a P4C800D I use PCP on, but never heard of coretemp. Did that come with the P5B-VM?

*Edit*, just found the program. NVM.

I have one concern, which may only be an issue of image perpsective. Just how close is that cap in the foreground to the HS? It looks to be resting right up against the bracket and fins, but I'm imagining it's not. How much clearance do you have from it to the HS?

I'm also interested in upgrading the NB HSF to a Zalman NBF-47, but I don't know if I'll have the height or clearance from the 7000B or 7700.

[shabby]

Thats just your eyes playing tricks on you, theres like a half inch clearance between that cap and the heatsink. On the northbridge side, the stock heatsink has about 1/4 inch of vertical clearance to the 7700 and around an 1/8th horizontally.
Anyway the zalman 7700 is installed, but it wasnt as simple as it should of been. While it fits just fine when its installed in the case, you cant slide in the mobo tray with it attached. You have to slide the mobo tray it while holding the heatsink above the cpu area at the same time. This is the only way it will fit, so apply thermal grease before, slide it in and screw it while its inside the case. A bit a pita but its doable. Maybe other mobos have the socket lower so it might slide in, but not on my p5ld2-vm board.
The idle temps have stayed the same compared with the 7000, but the fan is quieter so im happy. Havent done any load tests but im sure the 7700 will perform better.

http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z7700bj1.jpg

[MrNeutrino]

Shabby, thanks for sharing your experience with 7700 in this case (if even with a different MB)! I take it that the 7000 didn't have problems sliding in / out of the case on the tray like the 7700, is that correct?


Though still doable, sounds like a messy setup if you can't ever take the MB out without taking the HSF out each time. Quite unfortunate that you can't have your cake and eat it too, with this case's completely silly sheetmetal design right on top of the CPU! I find myself swapping PCI/e cards often enough that I'd have to remove the MB + HSF each time, or remove the PSU on top of the cards.

Given this data, I might have to consider either going for the CNPS7000 or something similar, or going with a different case. :confused:

[shabby]

Ya there was no problem sliding out the tray out with the z7000, but im pretty sure i'd be able to add a video card in there without taking the heatsink off again. Especially if it'll be a half height card, that'll be no problem.
Just go with the z7000, the z7700 is a beast so im not suprised you have to wrestle around with it to fit it in the case. You cant expect a big heatsink like that to fit with no problem. The antec aria will probably have the same problem, the qmicra can fit a cnps9500 if thats what you want.

Btw i re-checked the temps again, yesterday my room was pretty warm so the temps seemed the same as with the z7000. Now that my room is around the same temp that it was before, here are the new temps http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z77002zx4.jpg craaaaazy!

Edit: removing the psu gives you plenty of room to add cards in, so no need to take the z7700 off :)

[Treripica]

Shabby. I'm a little shaky on how to interpret what Coretemp is displaying. According to the site, I should read the core temp = tjunction - delta. Either assuming that the delta is core0-1, each core would be 85-11 = 74C?
Splitting that in half would bring it more in-line with my Northwood. So I did some searching on Google and lo and behold (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28&threadid=2012610).


UPDATE: I spoke with Mr. Liberman...it appears there's a bug with 0.94 and the E4x00 series, but it should be fixed in the next release!

doh!

What are the other progs reading?

[MrNeutrino]

Great, thanks for the suggestions, shabby! I guess if PSU removal is not too bad when accessing at least the non-VGA cards (which I'd be swapping from time to time), then maybe I can live with it.

Unfortunately while I've seen the Qmicra case before, the aesthetics don't quite appeal to me. :) I might just end up going with the 7000 if that's the case.

Hopefully its not too loud compared to 7700.

[shabby]

At the highest setting the 7000 is very audible, not loud though. If you take it to the lowest setting its pretty quiet but it doesnt move as much air as the 7700 at the lowest setting.

Treripica: even if coretemp is buggy the cpu temp sensor is still showing a relativly low temp. I still cant believe this cpu is running so cool, but whatever i like it :)

[Treripica]

Shabby: I imagine it's running quite cool with the 7700 :). I'm interested in the temps. What's PC Probe reporting?

[MrNeutrino]

I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too, huh? :)

[Treripica]

This may be out-of-scope for this thread, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the new 690G chipset that AMD just put out? Are you pretty much invested in the P5B, or is that still up for debate? I've never made an AMD system before, but was pretty impressed with the numbers. I'm still holding out for their mATX roundup due soon, but today the P5B-VM still looks like my choice.

[shabby]

Originally posted by: Treripica
Shabby: I imagine it's running quite cool with the 7700 :). I'm interested in the temps. What's PC Probe reporting?

http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z77002zx4.jpg

[MrNeutrino]

Originally posted by: Treripica
This may be out-of-scope for this thread, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the new 690G chipset that AMD just put out? Are you pretty much invested in the P5B, or is that still up for debate? I've never made an AMD system before, but was pretty impressed with the numbers. I'm still holding out for their mATX roundup due soon, but today the P5B-VM still looks like my choice.

Pretty much? Yes, though not willing to be a blind fan of G965 / P5B-VM. One of the side benefits of holding out is to see how the P5B-VM stacks up against the other mATX solutions / chipsets.

I've benefited from an open mind toward either vendor - Intel or AMD. If they can put their performance / features where their mouth is, they've got my $$$ when the time for a build comes. So far, the times when I've been building new systems, AMD has been the better solution. If AMD loses per the upcoming mATX review, Intel will win for the first time in my experience... never built Intel systems before.

[MrNeutrino]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Treripica
Shabby: I imagine it's running quite cool with the 7700 :). I'm interested in the temps. What's PC Probe reporting?

http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z77002zx4.jpg

Missed that one, Shabby...

Like that temp. even better. :) Maybe I will seriously consider 7700 after all.

[Treripica]

Originally posted by: shabby
http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z77002zx4.jpg

Doh, I'm used to what the old PC Probe looked like. *smacks head*. That's the first time I've seen the chipset run hotter than the cpu. 16C or 19C... I can't keep my Northwood below 32C. What's the ambient in your room?

[shabby]

Right now its 21c, this is about the same temp that those temps were taken at.

[Treripica]

Shabby I get the feeling that information being reported by the PC Probe and Coretemp isn't complete as per that formula I offered. You shouldn't be able to run a CPU below ambient temperature with just the 7700. Maybe with a peltier system or something with refrigeration.

I'm afraid you might be running it at something more like 69C (85-16), which if that's the case, you should have either had a thermal event or the motherboard would have barked at you. What happens the the CPU, MB temp when you crank up the RPM's on the HSF?

Do you have another source for checking the ambient? If the formula on Coretemp's site is nutters, maybe the ambient reading is off...

[shabby]

Theres no forumla in coretemp, 85c is the thermal limit of the cpu and the rest is the temp of each core. I dont believe the temps either, but the heatsink is cool to the touch, and yes its seated properly.
The mobo sensor temp seems more realistic but still low, who knows. The temps drop like a degree or two if i up the rpm's on the fan.

[Treripica]

Here's what I was talking about (http://www.thecoolest.zerobrains.com/CoreTemp/howitworks.html). I think it confused me a little because it defines the TJunction as a MSR with a preset constant, then there are two MSR's who report the delta of each core. However, in the program, it just says core1 or core2. I can't tell if those two are already calculated or if that is the delta.

Since you say that the processor is seated correctly and the HS is cool to the touch, my next thing would be to recalibrate whatever is being used for the ambient. I still wouldn't rule out error on the sensor's part.

The idea of using the 7700 is really starting to grow on me. How much quieter is the fan compared the to 7000? How are the load temps looking with it so far? It says it supports 775, but is that with the separate adapter or does it come with its own?

[shabby]

The 7000 has a whine like most small fans do, while the 7700 doesnt. You can still hear the 7700 pushing the air, but it doesnt whine, and at the lowest setting its pretty quiet.
I have a temp sensor in my room on a cardio machine, how accurate it is i dont know.
I still dont believe these temps since my e6400 with a scythe mine never ran that low at stock speeds. In fact it was idling at around 30c with a 120mm fan on the heatsink.

[MrNeutrino]

I wish the designers had designed this case such that the sheet metal (two bars) running above the heatsink didn't come in the way of the HSF growing taller. I can see how the two bars could have been stacked vertically instead of horizontally next to each other (parallel to the MB).

Oh well, I must agree with Treipica - if there is that type of whining ruckus (at least to my silence = utopia ears), I might just have to:

1. Go with 7700
2. cut one or both those sheet-metal bars running parallel to the MB and perhaps solder / connect them vertically, parallel to the side pannel somehow, so I can get the best of bot worlds - taller HSF and decent (though no longer perfect) support structure.
3. Consider going for another case

If I end up still sticking to this case structure, I'm most likely now considering getting the new version of the ultra microfly (check out sffclub.com (http://www.sffclub.com)) - the Microfly MX6 (http://www.sffclub.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=230&zenid=2fb1b9f54c560e01c5c3c39b2067b5b7) case with a 600W PSU! Looks a lost more classy than the older microfly / xqpack cases. :)

[Treripica]

Damn. If the PSU on the MX6 is worth anything, I might have gone with that. I had originally wanted a Cooler Master Mars (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103014) in there, but saw the inside and cursed. If someone does figure out how to keep it structurally sound and put larger HSF's in there, lemme know. :-)

[Treripica]

How about this case? (http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=13&pPath=439&productID=611)
I think I kinda like the look of these. They also come with the 600W PSU, but I know nothing about them.

I did end up going with the Corsair 520HX. The only nagging thing about it(and probably any PSU, is that the main bundle exits the PSU right at the optical interfaces. It's certainly manageable, but annoying, since there's all this dead space to the right. It leaves me about 1 1/5" clearance between PSU/optical, but damn if it doesn't look like it was made to go in there. Paint/finish matches the case to a 'T'.

[MrNeutrino]

I don't mind such cases / that case except for the fact that I have to flip open the lid to access the optical drives each time. Let aside those few rare times when Nero pops out the discs at the end of a burn process - I always wonder how people with these lidded cases (some with strong magnets holding them shut) can keep these types of issues from ruining the tray slide / drive mechanism of the optical drive.

The other version also looks more classy - that's just my personal take. Though appearance is one of those to-each-their-own type deals.

I just wish they'd make more variety of mATX cases similar to the Aapire / microfly / Shuttle XPC / Sugo types that have both, the beauty to admire and space to work in.

Well, I guess the 'speak and you shall receive' has turned out to be true w.r.t. IGP vs. non-IGP chipset performance for me... Perhaps if all SFF fans whine enough in the right forum categories at the right times, maybe one of them case company engineers will read the posts and release a sleek shiny cases that can fit a Scythe Ninja + std. PSU + optical drives + mATX MB all in the case the size of the microfly.

Makes you wonder why microfly designers didn't go the extra mile to change the design to allow tall heatpipe tower HSFs like Scythe! So much for something being so close to ideal for the price range.

[Treripica]

Really? I've been pestering Gary for about a month about the g965, 960G, and mATX roundup. Glad to see I wasn't the only one.

A classy case has eluded me for ages, but the ugly ones keep showing up. I remember wishing Lian-Li had another mATX case other than the V300-A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112112) I was looking at while back. I wonder... If you used only one optical drive and no more than two 3.5" internal drives, If you could dremel off the external 3.5" and one of the 5.25" and put either 1 or 2 120mm fans on the front and replace the side with another 120mm. It couldn't be any wierder, but I believe it at least would be quieter. Now I'm wondering what the clearance on it is, since it looks to place the PSU right over the cpu area.

[Treripica]

Ta-Da.... (http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1634)

Looks like Jonny over at JonnyGuru dealt with the issue already. And with pics! This is on the Microfly, btw.

[MrNeutrino]

Nice! Thanks for sharing the link on that mod.

It sounds a bit more than I was hoping to mod to make things fit. However, it's still great to see someone who's tried this out, been successful and has readily shared their learnings. The picture sizes and the zoomed-in point of view though, does really suck. Anyway, this is a handy link to have - will have to refer back to this if / when I get the microfly or the next gen ultra case.

BTW, not to ruin your or others' perspective on that V300-A case, but every time I look at that case, it reminds me of the top half of the head of a robot - two big round eyes and a nose. All we need is Stephen Hawking type computerized voice from the PC speakers and a pair of blinking lights / LED fans and you've got your self a true AI sitting atop your desk. :D

To some the grill with two fans symmetrically located underneath, may be quite pleasing. To me it's a sheer distraction. My other and probably bigger gripe with this case being the fact that they have the nerve to charge you $100+ for a puny little case that uses maybe 3/4 to half the sheet metal of el cheapo $40-50 ATX tower case (need I say, at times with a PSU, if even junk quality). Why? At least thanks in part to the 'brand' behind it. I've never been a 'pay more to get less except that brand stamp' type guy. However, had the front not looked so distracting, I'd have seriously considered it for the current $99 price - ~ 10-20 more than the microfly cases is not too bad.

BTW, you can use quite a few more HSFs with that case - use your Corsair PSU with its downward facing 120mm fan inlet along with something similar to the NT06 heatsink and optionally drop the fan and use that PSU fan to suck the air (or have both fans in place).

Alas, no mATX case that can officially fit the Scythe Ninja HSF. :(

[Treripica]

Tiger Direct has the Ultra Microfly for $60. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1800610&Sku=ULT33114&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&CMP=AFC-LINKSHARE&AffiliateID=NKa3hZyYoHA-zH_VHI7x1o70CAoZdPCwIQ)

In the event you haven't already picked up the MX6.

[MrNeutrino]

Thanks for the heads up! Now that's one sweet deal from a reliable etailer!

No, I haven't yet bought the MX6. I'm very tempted to get one of these microfly cases right now.

However, more I look at the two of them, I'm still leaning toward the MX6. It's painful shelling out the 90 some odd bucks extra for the higher wattage PSU that most likely doesn't come close to the Corsair PSUs I pointed to above... It's the darn looks that are to fall for. :)

Hopefully between now and April 22, we'll see some price drops on that case too.

[Treripica]

I PM'ed you a possible idea.

[MrNeutrino]

Treripica, your idea got me thinking again about something unrelated.

Shabby,

Not sure if you are monitoring this thread anymore. I just PMed you and Steeeeve from sffclub.com to see if either of you could post a brief reply to clarify one of your earlier posts. (pasting some context from the PM here.)

You mentioned earlier in this thread, the need to hold the CNSP7700 (down?) while pushing the MB tray back into the case (Ultra Microfly in my case). You also mentioned that you'd recommend putting the HSF in place, then slide the tray in and THEN secure it in place.


You have to slide the mobo tray it while holding the heatsink above the cpu area at the same time. This is the only way it will fit, so apply thermal grease before, slide it in and screw it while its inside the case.

I'm hoping to go with the more CFM / quieter 7700 if at all viable. That is, if all it takes from my side is a small amount of pushing (down?) on the HSF each time I slide the tray in / out (to put 1-2mm of clearance between the HSF and the case), I can live with that for the quieter / better 7700 (vs. 7000).

To be sure, a few questions for shabby:

1. By 'hold', did you mean hold down?

2. Are the above streps, all that's needed to fit in / use this 7700 HSF with the ultra microfly cases, or am I missing something here?

3. Why do you say not to secure the HSF until after sliding the tray in (while holding the HSF to the MB, I presume)? If it's impossible sliding a secured HSF in / out the first time, is it not impossible to slide out the tray at 'any' time?


Steeeeve, Shabby's data has been very helpful already. To get a wider statistic, two questions for you:

1. How many customers are successfully able to use the CNPS7700 with the ultra microfly cases? In my case, I'm going to use the Asus P5B-VM mATX MB.

2. Do you have any other comments / concerns with this type of setup?

I noticed you have the CNPS7700 but not the 7000, which makes me wonder if you are already aware of the compatibility between the 7700 and ultra microfly cases.


Thanks guys, for sharing any data you can on this!

[shabby]

If you install the heatsink and try to slide the mobo tray in the heatsink will hit the case.
So... the heatsink has to hover above the cpu area while you're sliding the mobo in. You're basically holding the heatsink low enough so it fits(couple mm of clearance) but high enough so it doesnt hit any components on the mobo, and you're sliding in the mobo in at the same time. Its easier said then done ;)
Once its in, and assuming you put the thermal grease on, position it on the cpu bracket, lock her down and thats it.

[MrNeutrino]

Originally posted by: shabby
If you install the heatsink and try to slide the mobo tray in the heatsink will hit the case.
So... the heatsink has to hover above the cpu area while you're sliding the mobo in. You're basically holding the heatsink low enough so it fits(couple mm of clearance) but high enough so it doesnt hit any components on the mobo, and you're sliding in the mobo in at the same time.

Thanks for the post, shabby! That's just what I'm trying to understand.

It sounds like an installed 7700 touching the CPU socket is taller than an uninstalled HSF that's hovering above the CPU socket. This is what has me confused.

In other words, if an installed 7700 won't slide in with the tray because of 'lack' of a few mm of clearance, how are you able to find enough clearance to slide a 'hovering' heatsink in, since you just increased the height of that hovering HSF by a few mm?

Sorry, not trying to nit-pick. Just trying to understand how difficult the 7700 is to play with in this case.


Originally posted by: shabby
Once its in, and assuming you put the thermal grease on, position it on the cpu bracket, lock her down and thats it.

Are you suggesting that I'd need to take steps in the following order?

1. Apply the the thermal grease before sliding the MB / tray / hovering HSF in.
2. Carefully hold the HSF above the CPU socket (hover) without touching the socket / CPU lid, and push it down while sliding it in (while still not letting it touch the thermal paste on the CPU lid?).
3. Once slid in, drop the HSF on the greased CPU lid that's already layered with the thermal paste.

Did I get that right?



Originally posted by: shabby
Its easier said then done ;)


If I got the above steps right, I can see how this is easier said than done. :)

Just curious, how long did it take you / would you say it'd take?

[shabby]

Its not the height but the width of the heatsink that doesnt allow it to be slid in while installed.
Ya you need to grease up the cpu first, you wont have any room after you slide the cpu in.
It doesnt take long, couple minites.

[MrNeutrino]

Ah ha!

Now things are falling in place. :)

Not vertical but horizontal clearance is the issue.

Cool, I think I can live with a couple of minutes (or even 10-15) the few times I'll actually slide the MB tray out.

As you said before, I could even take the PSU out if I'm just tinkering with the cards side of the MB. Even better.

Thanks Shabby!

[MrNeutrino]

SWEEEET!! (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37515) :D

Check out the second post.

Who'da thought? Heatpipe tower cooler in an unmodded microfly?! Now we're talkin (if the cooling as good as I'd expect a tower with heatpipes + 80mm silent fan)!

Wonder how the cooling / noise performance is like...

Checking over there as we speak.

[Steeeeve]

Sorry for the late reply. Shabby has it right. Just a few mm to high so it won't go into the MicroFly (oddly enough). It still is the best HSF for the case though and some folks actually push down on the motherboard to get it in but I highly recommend you DONT do that.

[MrNeutrino]

Not a problem, Steeeeve. Thanks for the post!

Yeah, sounds like 7700 is indeed one of the best choices out there for this case in its unmodded form.

If I end up going with the 7700, I'm thinking of doing a fan swap with the Yate Loon 120mm fans for a quieter setup (along with around the same air pressure / CFM flow). If I end up making that mod, will be sure to share the data.

More I research online, I'm torn between the silentpcreview forum post (linked above) type setup - XP-90 tower HSF at half the price - vs. the 7700, both in an unmodded case. OR, Noctuna etc. type tower HSFs in a modded case (inner HDD cage support bar removed).

Let's see. 7700 is in the lead right now... :)


BTW, thanks for that suggestion. Yeah, would never push the MB PCB down like that. Warping PCBs are very vivid in my memory... Lived through installation of some of the most horrendous AMD Athlon XP HSF installations... clipping on that second clip to the CPU socket was a nightmare depending on the HSF / stiffness of included HSF clip. I've heard a PCB crackle more than a few times during those days. Even had the screwdriver slip and knock off a memory resistor-pack between the CPU and DIMM connector. Had to re-solder every R-pack pin to its PCB pad very carefully to bring the non-POSTing dead board back. :P

In comparison, definitely love the LGA 775 HSF installation process. :)

[MrNeutrino]

All right, here's my mini-review of the recent build based on all the helpful feedback I've received from helpful fellow-community members here and elsewhere (Thanks!):

After months of waiting on the sorry state of affairs that are the mATX reviews here at AT, I finally decided to become my own best judge and reviewer and build the system based on valuable feedback from various folks here and elsewhere. My digicam is on loan to a family member for few weeks so can't post pics. right now but here's the config:

Asus P5B-VM + E6700 @ stock + CNPS7700 HSF @ reasonably low RPM
Ultra MicroFly MX6 mATX case (great, simple and classy aesthetics but flimsy build - not as sturdy as the silverstone case but decent if you put it on a solid surface.)
WD5000AAKS
Liteon 20x SATA dual-layer burner supporting everything under the sun (checkout the verbose title @ newegg)
2x1G DDR2-800 Gskill DIMM kit @ 1.8V (1.8V default operation for max. performance @ minimal power / cost)
Corsair HX-520W PSU - AWESOME PSU and packaging / accessories (pouch for unused cable etc. Truly silent at any stress level in my config!
stock MX6 case fans

Waiting for a decent DX10 card with less buggy drivers, lower power consumption (55nm / DX 10.1 parts?), passive HSF for dirt cheap parts. Don't care about anything other than VIVO + DVI / HDMI capability in terms of features here. Maybe another purchase in a month or two.

I didn't bother looking at AM2 options, given the price / performance ratio currently available. That may change in a few months but I need the performance now...

Shabby and Steeeeve had it right. The 7700 was a pain to install but wasn't impossible. I went through 3 test installs without thermal paste, before applying it and sliding the HSF + MB tray in (while hovering HSF above the MB at all times). Didn't take more than 20-30 minutes of careful work. Though, hovering HSF while pushing the unruly MB tray in this case (with dare I say, sharp edges galore) is not a task for all.

Another issue is optical drive vibration on inserting some (presumably warped disks) that in turn, causes the HDD mounted vertically near by as well as the case resonates. Thanks to Nero DriveSpeed, I can control the max. spin speed for such warped disks. For perfectly flat ones, it's fairly silent and almost vibration-less even in such a relatively thin sheet-metal based case.

Temps:
- CPU = 36c / MB = 41c via Asus PC Probe II (not sure why it's swapped but I'm sure that's the case given the temps).
- MX6 case temp. thermal diode snugly slid between the HSF and CPU 'post' HSF installation (i.e. reading temp. off the edge of the chip). Temp = 29 - 38c range.

Overall, compared to my oder box, this is an awesome performing, extremely silent case. almost inaudible at slowest 7700 fan speed.

Quite happy with the build itself. Though again, would have appreciated Gary's hopelessly and pathetically late mATX review appearing sooner.



On a related note, I'm no longer sure AT is the site it's made out to be as of late, when it comes to timely (at least mATX) reviews as well as number of (mATX) reviews! Just search for my complaints by username and Gary's responses... you'll find sufficient evidence. :frown:

So much for a balance between mATX vs. ATX reviews at AT!

If it weren't for the forums and the nice community buildup, I'd be seriously looking elsewhere as of months back!