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Nizology
07-17-2009, 05:15 PM
First look at UI, dialogue wheel and gameplay footage. Can't wait!

Video (http://swtor.com/news/article/20090717_002)

zerocool84
07-17-2009, 05:28 PM
MMO = fail for me but not fail for all the geeks in the world

spittledip
07-17-2009, 05:28 PM
hm those are some bad graphics

s44
07-17-2009, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by: zerocool84
MMO = fail for me but not fail for all the geeks in the world
You realize this is 8 different SP Bioware Star Wars games rolled into one with an optional teaming/PvP component, right?

Udgnim
07-17-2009, 05:53 PM
eh character models look pretty laughable

also not so sure about some of the voice actors

Sylvanas
07-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Some of the voice actors are pretty terrible like that 'badass bounty hunter' guy was. Graphics are meh, but I wouldn't expect much from a large scale MMO, Bioware are going for what Blizzard did an targeting the largest audience possible which means dumbing it down for all those ppl playing on Athlon 64 3200's. Gameplay looks quite good imo, at least it's not the same hack and slash animation over and over. But still, if they wanted to do a great story which they keep going on about in the video it's infinitely better to do it in an RPG and not an MMO- a full fledged Kotor 3 would be awesome and would sell well = win/win.

Chriscross3234
07-17-2009, 08:06 PM
Honestly, I'm glad to see that they are not creating breakthrough graphics for an MMO, for that I'll go play Crysis :roll:. I'm glad to see that they are really trying to focus on the dialogue and story, I've wondered how cool games like BG2 would of been if they did everything with a voiceover. I'm still a little skeptical, but very hopeful, about this game and I hope it doesn't turn out to be another WoW. It's going to be hard for them to design this game that is supposedly based on story and content when it still is an MMO and the biggest mentality people have in MMO's is "omg i need leet gear".

zerocool84
07-17-2009, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by: s44
Originally posted by: zerocool84
MMO = fail for me but not fail for all the geeks in the world
You realize this is 8 different SP Bioware Star Wars games rolled into one with an optional teaming/PvP component, right?

It's a MMO. Nuff said.

mmntech
07-17-2009, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by: zerocool84
MMO = fail for me but not fail for all the geeks in the world

QFT. It's just another way to suck more money out of gamers by making them pay to keep playing. Might as well just go back to feeding quarters into the machine.

The graphics are dated but then again, so were those from KOTOR 1 & 2. Those were great games. We won't know until we see substance in the form of actual gameplay.

coloumb
07-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by: Nizology
First look at UI, dialogue wheel and gameplay footage. Can't wait!

Video (http://swtor.com/news/article/20090717_002)

:thumbsup:

For all the nay sayers:

I think the graphics look pretty good for an MMO. What will make the game great is the back end and developing story unique to each class. I'd guess most of the videos we are being shown are from the "single player" campaign of the MMO [which by all aspects from the latest video looks like it's part of a quest centered around the class you are currently playing].

Voice Overs - That's one annoyance most other MMO's suffer - stupid dialogue boxes. Hopefully they won't allow those with ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) to just "space bar / click" their way pass the dialogue else we'll see a lot of "WTF do I do here?!?!?" global chats.

What will make/break the game will be the end game - hopefully it won't turn into a "who has the l33tist gear from raiding the same dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over and over again or an epic rare CDF pistol with uberOMFGpoision". I'm hoping for an open sand box style end game that SWG had before SOE screwed the pooch [right before player jedi were announced]

TheVrolok
07-18-2009, 12:33 AM
marked for later

datalink7
07-18-2009, 03:10 AM
I think the graphics look great for a MMO. Looking forward to this.

Koudelka
07-18-2009, 03:24 AM
At around 1:55 the dude says SWTOR is probably the most ambitious voice over project ever in the entertainment industry...

I could not help but laugh at this guy.

Graphics are ok, gameplay didnt seem so interesting, seems like an average MMO that should have come out 5 years ago.

BUT, the voice actors are garbage.. its obvious they just grabbed the first people they could find. They sound so mechanical and fake.

I hate to bash the game, but who gives a shit if your game is entirely in voice overs.. if the voice overs sound like shit and completely take away from any immersive feeling?




I hate extremely high hopes for this game.. but this trailer just makes it look.. average at best. They need to step back, realize what theyre recording, and hire some new talent.

Arglebargle
07-18-2009, 04:37 AM
It is Bioware, but...

Personally, I think the voiceover-for-everything schtick is way more trouble than it's worth. And some of those voices did sound unimpressive. Also, kinda flat, just like it was recorded in a vocal booth. No reverb fitting the location. It does give them a talking point of difference though. ;-)

Also, when you use text, your imagination supplys the voice: Here, they nail it down. And I think you'd have a sizeable number of people who wouldn't play particular types due to the voicing. Like that bumpus bounty hunter. Of course, they could offer choices of voicing, which would be good. Otherwise everyone sounds the same.

Consider the amount of extra work any addition is going to add. Everything fully voiced. The graphics don't bother me as much. MMOs have to consider the condition of the internet all over the place, and also have to consider play on mediocre gaming systems.

Still, as SWG showed, the fans will put up with any manner of ill-formed or maladjusted game. If Bioware keeps it to even the middling levels of quality, it could be a hit It is Bioware....

Mem
07-18-2009, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by: Arglebargle
It is Bioware, but...

Personally, I think the voiceover-for-everything schtick is way more trouble than it's worth. And some of those voices did sound unimpressive. Also, kinda flat, just like it was recorded in a vocal booth. No reverb fitting the location. It does give them a talking point of difference though. ;-)

Also, when you use text, your imagination supplys the voice: Here, they nail it down. And I think you'd have a sizeable number of people who wouldn't play particular types due to the voicing. Like that bumpus bounty hunter. Of course, they could offer choices of voicing, which would be good. Otherwise everyone sounds the same.

Consider the amount of extra work any addition is going to add. Everything fully voiced. The graphics don't bother me as much. MMOs have to consider the condition of the internet all over the place, and also have to consider play on mediocre gaming systems.

Still, as SWG showed, the fans will put up with any manner of ill-formed or maladjusted game. If Bioware keeps it to even the middling levels of quality, it could be a hit It is Bioware....

Actually you are wrong,when NGE came to SWG 90% left,the guild I was in had over 120 people which all left thanks to NGE,SWG became a ghost town on most servers after that,anyway getting back on topic the graphics in TOR look ok for a MMORPG,gameplay is more important so we just have to see how that pans out.

Fox5
07-18-2009, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by: s44
Originally posted by: zerocool84
MMO = fail for me but not fail for all the geeks in the world
You realize this is 8 different SP Bioware Star Wars games rolled into one with an optional teaming/PvP component, right?

Sounds like the kind of wishful thinking fans have had about every mmo ever.
Where do you get 8 different single player games from though?

Also, the graphics look like the old KOTOR....or maybe Mass Effect.

drebo
07-18-2009, 10:26 AM
Taking a fundamentally singleplayer game, such as this, and slapping other players into it does not make an MMO. This is going to have the exact same shortfalls of WAR, WoW, AoC, and SWG. It's a linear hack-and-slash game. One of two things will happen: they'll make everything instanced (in which case it'll turn into Guild Wars) so that you won't have to stand around for hours waiting for your turn to kill Mob X with fifteen other people who all need to kill Mob X because you have to kill Mob X before you can move on to the next area/quest/story; or, people will be stuck standing around for hours waiting for their turn to kill Mob X with fifteen other people who all need to kill Mob X because you have to kill Mob X before you can move on to the next area/quest/story.

MMOs should not be story-driven. It's fundamentally counterintuitive to the purpose of an MMO. MMOs are supposed to provide immersion through social and environmental aspects. They're supposed to be sandbox games. Why would I pay to play a game where everyone has the exact same path through the game? If I wanted that, I'd play a single-player game. In an MMO, I want to be able to choose who I am, where I start, what I do, and how I get through the game. If I want to be a pure merchant/crafter, I should be able to play the game for years without ever lifting a weapon. People wonder why the MMO market is so bad...it's because there's no variety anymore. The game is the same for everyone, regardless of what class or race or side you are playing on.

BenSkywalker
07-18-2009, 10:41 AM
Where do you get 8 different single player games from though?

Each class has a start to end game level quest line with no shared quests between any of the classes or factions.

People wonder why the MMO market is so bad

The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.

s44
07-18-2009, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Each class has a start to end game level quest line with no shared quests between any of the classes or factions.
Other players in your faction can join/help you in one of your quests though. Plus I assume there will be specific faction v faction PvP scenarios.

Everybody should read this interview (http://www.mmogamer.com/06/11/2009/a-new-hope-for-mmos) if they haven't.
Lead Designer Daniel Erickson
Because we did all class-specific stories for The Old Republic, we?ve allowed ourselves to basically make, ?Knights of the Old Republic: The Smuggler,? its own game. Everything in there, when you?re playing a Smuggler, you feel like a Smuggler.

The adventures are crazy, and madcap, and you?re flying by the seat of your pants, and there?s romantic stuff, and you?re spouting off crazy one-liners, etc., etc.

Then, when you?re playing as a Sith, it?s a completely different game. Everything is from that perspective, you come from a very dark world, you?re on Korriban, you?re dealing with Sith politics, you?re dealing with some very, very dark people who are allowed to do anything they want.

brblx
07-18-2009, 12:12 PM
glurg. this looks like kotor with slightly updated cartoon graphics. i'm normally all for voiceovers and think it's pathetic that none of the MMO's seem to have them beyond a few select levels, but this just looks like WoW + star wars + voiceovers. do something fucking innovative, bioware, we know you're capable of it.

i wonder how much EA's general 'poorly copy the successes of others' business plan has to do with this game.

drebo
07-18-2009, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.


Er, what?

Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games? The end game. What is the most enjoyable part of all of those games? THE END GAME.

Why is that? I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story. No. In MMOs, the linear story is the what gets you to the end game. Why about WoW do people complain the most? The grind. What is the grind? Leveling from 1 to 80 in a linear, uncreative, boring world. Why do you think that Blizzard has made it incredibly easy to get through the early portions of the game? Because NO ONE likes to play it. When was the last time you started a character just to go play in Goldshire? Or maybe you prefer going through all the quests in Westfall?

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game. Because in the end game, you do what you want, go where you want...i.e. it's NOT STORY DRIVEN.

Any modern MMO, this is the case. Whether it be DAoC, AoC, WoW, WAR, Darkfall, anything. Everyone dashes to the end game, because that's what's fun.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun. This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

Lonyo
07-18-2009, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by: drebo
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.


Er, what?

Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games? The end game. What is the most enjoyable part of all of those games? THE END GAME.

Why is that? I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story. No. In MMOs, the linear story is the what gets you to the end game. Why about WoW do people complain the most? The grind. What is the grind? Leveling from 1 to 80 in a linear, uncreative, boring world. Why do you think that Blizzard has made it incredibly easy to get through the early portions of the game? Because NO ONE likes to play it. When was the last time you started a character just to go play in Goldshire? Or maybe you prefer going through all the quests in Westfall?

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game. Because in the end game, you do what you want, go where you want...i.e. it's NOT STORY DRIVEN.

Any modern MMO, this is the case. Whether it be DAoC, AoC, WoW, WAR, Darkfall, anything. Everyone dashes to the end game, because that's what's fun.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun. This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

Yes, but Blizzard are saying they are going to make story parts that people WILL LIKE to play.

Just because WoW or whatever other MMO has story parts that no one likes doesn't mean that no one likes story parts, it means those which have so far been offered up haven't really been any good, so people just want to pretend they don't exist.

Sure, you could scrap the story parts entirely, or you could try making the story parts interesting, and that's what Bioware are going for.

Koudelka
07-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by: drebo
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.


Er, what?

Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games? The end game. What is the most enjoyable part of all of those games? THE END GAME.

Why is that? I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story. No. In MMOs, the linear story is the what gets you to the end game. Why about WoW do people complain the most? The grind. What is the grind? Leveling from 1 to 80 in a linear, uncreative, boring world. Why do you think that Blizzard has made it incredibly easy to get through the early portions of the game? Because NO ONE likes to play it. When was the last time you started a character just to go play in Goldshire? Or maybe you prefer going through all the quests in Westfall?

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game. Because in the end game, you do what you want, go where you want...i.e. it's NOT STORY DRIVEN.

Any modern MMO, this is the case. Whether it be DAoC, AoC, WoW, WAR, Darkfall, anything. Everyone dashes to the end game, because that's what's fun.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun. This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

The reason why nobody likes to play anything but the end game anymore is because every single MMO since everquest (aside from Vanguard) has been a 'solo questing, dont ever need to speak to another soul until i hit top level' game.

With a good population, and grouping giving you significant more xp.. the entire game is enjoyable when you have people to play with. You make friends fast, and get to know a lot of people.

Nizology
07-18-2009, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by: drebo
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.


Er, what?

Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games? The end game. What is the most enjoyable part of all of those games? THE END GAME.

Why is that? I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story. No. In MMOs, the linear story is the what gets you to the end game. Why about WoW do people complain the most? The grind. What is the grind? Leveling from 1 to 80 in a linear, uncreative, boring world. Why do you think that Blizzard has made it incredibly easy to get through the early portions of the game? Because NO ONE likes to play it. When was the last time you started a character just to go play in Goldshire? Or maybe you prefer going through all the quests in Westfall?

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game. Because in the end game, you do what you want, go where you want...i.e. it's NOT STORY DRIVEN.

Any modern MMO, this is the case. Whether it be DAoC, AoC, WoW, WAR, Darkfall, anything. Everyone dashes to the end game, because that's what's fun.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun. This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

However, this is the epic of Star Wars and perhaps one of the greatest sci-fi stories ever created. None of those MMOs can say that.

WaitingForNehalem
07-18-2009, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by: spittledip
hm those are some bad graphics

Yes they are. Honestly, who wants cartoon graphics?

brblx
07-18-2009, 03:32 PM
it reminds me of that terrible CGI star wars cartoon. i don't want that. no one i know that likes star wars wants that.

datalink7
07-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by: drebo
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.


Er, what?

Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games? The end game. What is the most enjoyable part of all of those games? THE END GAME.

Why is that? I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story. No. In MMOs, the linear story is the what gets you to the end game. Why about WoW do people complain the most? The grind. What is the grind? Leveling from 1 to 80 in a linear, uncreative, boring world. Why do you think that Blizzard has made it incredibly easy to get through the early portions of the game? Because NO ONE likes to play it. When was the last time you started a character just to go play in Goldshire? Or maybe you prefer going through all the quests in Westfall?

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game. Because in the end game, you do what you want, go where you want...i.e. it's NOT STORY DRIVEN.

Any modern MMO, this is the case. Whether it be DAoC, AoC, WoW, WAR, Darkfall, anything. Everyone dashes to the end game, because that's what's fun.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun. This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

I disagree somewhat. I play LOTRO and follow the story quests. I even continue to do them even though I am max level and won't get any xp for them. You constantly hear shout outs to do the parts of the quests that require grouping, even though the rewards won't get you anything and you wont' get any xp.

A good storyline can be a lot of fun to follow. Some people don't like it, but I'd say the vast majority of LOTRO players have followed the storyline and continue to do so even when there aren't any "real rewards" anymore for it.

BenSkywalker
07-18-2009, 09:57 PM
Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

My assertions were based on the reality that has been explained.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games?

You mean max level when you say end game, not actual end game. What percentage of people in WoW have dropped Agalon?

Why is that?

Because they set a level cap. That is the only reason. What percentage of guilds ever ran Naxx40 or Sunwell?

I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story.

None of the current MMOs have a story worth wiping your ass with.

Why about WoW do people complain the most?

The shitty gameplay mechanics lately more then anything. Then you have almost no content for characters to do at max level, and the horrificly broken pvp system. Have multiple Tier8 toons here, WoW is a flat out bad game, the only thing it is good for is killing time.

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game.

Really? What about in Eve? Sorry, just because Blizzard sucks horribly at making decent content doesn't mean everyone else in the industry is going to be the same way.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun.

I have never suffered massive head trauma nor was I born with severe mental retardation so you will have to explain how having terrible gameplay with no story makes a game more fun then having terrible gameplay with almost no story and what the hell that has to do with having good gameplay paired with a good story. My apologies for not being a profound idiot.

This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

What that proves is that on the norm people have been playing for longer then it takes to get a character to max level, that's it.

CountZero
07-19-2009, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by: drebo
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The MMO market is the overwhelming driving force behind PC gaming atm. As far as your ideas as the only ways to do things, we can certainly tell why you aren't producing a MMO yourself :) There are lots of different ways of handling how to have a story driven MMO, I've been quite impressed with the fairly detailed explenations they have offered on how they are going to pull it off.


Er, what?

Rather than making blind assertions and making yourself look like a fool, let's look at this analytically.

In every modern MMO, what is the most populated part of the game? The end game. What's the goal of all of those games? The end game. What is the most enjoyable part of all of those games? THE END GAME.

Why is that? I can tell you that it's NOT because it has a linear story. No. In MMOs, the linear story is the what gets you to the end game. Why about WoW do people complain the most? The grind. What is the grind? Leveling from 1 to 80 in a linear, uncreative, boring world. Why do you think that Blizzard has made it incredibly easy to get through the early portions of the game? Because NO ONE likes to play it. When was the last time you started a character just to go play in Goldshire? Or maybe you prefer going through all the quests in Westfall?

No. People who play modern MMOs do everything in their power to SKIP the first part of the game and go straight to the end game. Because in the end game, you do what you want, go where you want...i.e. it's NOT STORY DRIVEN.

Any modern MMO, this is the case. Whether it be DAoC, AoC, WoW, WAR, Darkfall, anything. Everyone dashes to the end game, because that's what's fun.

My point is that if you REMOVE the story parts that NO ONE likes playing, you make the entire game, from the moment you pick it up to the moment you cancel your account, fun. This is not opinion, it is empirical fact supported by population distribution in every single modern MMO.

You are wrong. I agree that I don't want a central story but I do want story elements, quests, areas where I can uncover the history, etc. Lots of people liked the leveling game but once you've done it more than a couple times it is repetitive and what you really want is to bring your latest character up to where your last character was.

Some people will race to the end game, some people like to meander up to max level. Some will do pvp, some pve, some raid, some solo all the way but to say NO ONE likes playing and call it fact is laughable wrong. Maybe you didn't enjoy the story elements but I did the first time through as did my girlfriend.

Even given it is bioware I have low expectations of this game MMOs aren't, nor should they be, single player games. Hopefully they are working within the framework of a fun multiplayer game instead of a fun single player game with other people around.

bunnyfubbles
07-19-2009, 12:59 PM
I can see one of three things happening with this game

1. its another lame MMO
2. its not actually a true MMO, they're just calling it that for obvious monetary reasons
3. it changes the industry as one of the best video games ever (ie they somehow make a truly immersive MMO with an excellent story)

I've ordered them in terms of likelihood, however I hope its one of the latter reasons

Originally posted by: Chriscross3234
Honestly, I'm glad to see that they are not creating breakthrough graphics for an MMO, for that I'll go play Crysis :roll:. I'm glad to see that they are really trying to focus on the dialogue and story, I've wondered how cool games like BG2 would of been if they did everything with a voiceover. I'm still a little skeptical, but very hopeful, about this game and I hope it doesn't turn out to be another WoW. It's going to be hard for them to design this game that is supposedly based on story and content when it still is an MMO and the biggest mentality people have in MMO's is "omg i need leet gear".

these graphics look marginally better than KOTOR1 and 2 (if anything they look tweaked to be more cartoony), and those games are ~6 years old...

dbk
07-19-2009, 03:14 PM
looks like shit

Darkrage
07-19-2009, 08:19 PM
Yeah the graphics look kind of crappy for a "new Game". I wasn't expecting Crysis graphics, But still was expecting better.

evident
07-19-2009, 11:46 PM
wow. throughly disappionted from what i saw,

Scionix
07-20-2009, 12:56 AM
Has anyone realized sometimes the graphics polish up before the games get to live? O.o

Look at WoW beta for goodness' sakes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZr0nclFSA0

Arglebargle
07-20-2009, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: Arglebargle
It is Bioware, but...

...

Still, as SWG showed, the fans will put up with any manner of ill-formed or maladjusted game. If Bioware keeps it to even the middling levels of quality, it could be a hit It is Bioware....

Actually you are wrong,when NGE came to SWG 90% left,the guild I was in had over 120 people which all left thanks to NGE,SWG became a ghost town on most servers after that,anyway getting back on topic the graphics in TOR look ok for a MMORPG,gameplay is more important so we just have to see how that pans out.



But you see, in my opinion, the first iteration of SWG was a poorly set up and developed game. It just didn't get in your way as much as the later versions.

It is a testament to SOE that they could take Star Wars, and mess the game up so bad that people wouldn't play in droves. Doesn't mean the original was good, however.

Sylvanas
07-20-2009, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by: Scionix
Has anyone realized sometimes the graphics polish up before the games get to live? O.o

Look at WoW beta for goodness' sakes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZr0nclFSA0

WoW added new shadows and maybe a few textures since release but that's it and it took years- going around the 1-60 zones looks largely like it did at release.

I'm not too bothered with the graphics as they are good enough for me- I just hope it plays well. Seeing as Bioware has 3 projects on the go, and the recent EA acquisition- it's crunch time to see if they can still do it with their evil overlords watching over their shoulder.

bunnyfubbles
07-20-2009, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by: Scionix
Has anyone realized sometimes the graphics polish up before the games get to live? O.o

Look at WoW beta for goodness' sakes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZr0nclFSA0

It all depends on how close it is to release. The fact that they're showing it off on a highly polished promotional home website tells me it isn't going to change much.

the unknown
07-20-2009, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
I can see one of three things happening with this game

1. its another lame MMO
2. its not actually a true MMO, they're just calling it that for obvious monetary reasons
3. it changes the industry as one of the best video games ever (ie they somehow make a truly immersive MMO with an excellent story)

I've ordered them in terms of likelihood, however I hope its one of the latter reasons

Personally, I think it's number 2, which is fine with me. The main story line will be completely singleplayer with some of those "crossing-over" style missions where your there are multiple objectives for different classes. I'm basing this off of Age of Conan. Your "destiny" quests were all solo and instanced, and then you had the main world to explore and do side quests/grind. Hopefully, there will be less/no grind and mostly story to level up, with the world being out there to explore and gain better equipment. And of course Bioware said there will be an end game (raiding, guilding ect) not unlike most mmos out there. I don't have my hopes up with these kinds of games anymore, but I will certainly try this one for the single player experience alone.

Farmer
07-20-2009, 08:19 AM
I agree with the contentions of many others: why did you make this an MMO? While I, like bunnyfubbles, hope for a "truly immersive MMO with an excellent story," that just seems almost impossible. The fact that it has to be an MMO precludes the exact things that made the previous KOTORs great: tightly linear and controlled story sequences with a few different possible branches, ensuring a high amount of immersion.

From my experience, a BioWare RPG is just the tiniest bit removed from a novel or a movie, just enough to add the interaction needed to make the player feel like their decisions make an impact on the outcome of the story, and obviously the mechanics necessary to make it a game (i.e., D&D rules). The leveling system in, say, KOTOR, isn't a measure of your success, but instead just something to tell you if you haven't spent the amount of time the developers intended you to in a certain area.

An MMORPG is totally different: IMO they are built to take advantage of a player's desire to reach arbitrary goals like a "max level," or some certain rare items*. I can't see how you can fuse the two, since one detracts from the other; I don't know, maybe they managed to, I hope they manage to do it well.

The Star Wars license does give you a great boost though, as it makes the game universe seem far more authentic and developed: while I thoroughly enjoyed KOTOR1 and played through KOTOR2, I couldn't get into Mass Effect as much.

As for the graphics, yeah, I feel like Mass Effect looked better.

*This formula works: I played Diablo 2 for the longest time, and though D2 isn't MMO, the premise is the same. But once you get to lvl 90 or thereabouts and have all the items in the world, I find myself doing nothing enjoyable but rushing other characters.

ViviTheMage
07-20-2009, 08:24 AM
What a huge let down...

Beev
07-20-2009, 08:54 AM
Looks good to me. Alpha quality graphics don't bother me a bit since they'll get better. The fact that it seems so single player-y is GOOD to me. The game doesn't need to be an MMO in the sense that you're always hanging around 100+ real people. Make it one or two and let me play the game as a generic coop game and I'm set.

AyashiKaibutsu
07-20-2009, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by: Chriscross3234
I've wondered how cool games like BG2 would of been if they did everything with a voiceover.

They'd be like oblivion full of tripe and repetitive dialogue.

BenSkywalker
07-20-2009, 09:23 AM
I agree with the contentions of many others: why did you make this an MMO?

Based on what we have currently heard about the development of this game it sounds like total development costs are likely to be in the ~$100Million dollar range. The only type of game that is going to secure that kind of funding is a MMO. It is the only title that has a reasonable shot at generating the level of revenue required to warrant that kind of investment.

As far as the graphics for this game go, I honestly am not expecting a big improvement over what we see here, and am not really all that worried about it. The developers have stated rather clearly they are going for a more cell shaded(toonish) look then photo realism for several different reasons. Unfortunately, inside a ship isn't going to be a great place to display the artistic avenues this can open up, but even if the whole game looked like what they showed in that video it wouldn't bother me as long as performance was in line(ie- I'd much rather have an ugly fast MMO then a pretty and slow one). Maybe it will look a lot better and still run great and I'll be thrilled, but it really doesn't make that big of a difference.

An MMORPG is totally different: IMO they are built to take advantage of a player's desire to reach arbitrary goals like a "max level," or some certain rare items*. I can't see how you can fuse the two, since one detracts from the other; I don't know, maybe they managed to, I hope they manage to do it well.

I don't see why they need be exclusive. Even using currently available MMOs, I'm sure every DK and DPS Warrior is dieing to get their hands on Frostmourne, which is an arbitrary goal, but that doesn't mean the entire path to downing Arathas doesn't have a rather extensive backstory to it(predating WoW by several years actually). The way in which WoW utilizes its' storyline is as a side note for those interested for the most part, but I actually thought that how they integrated it into the entire storyline throughout all of Wrath was a rather huge improvement over how they did things in the past. I am not a big fan of WoW atm, haven't been for a while, but them adding an Arathas saga that unfolded as you leveled certainly made for a far more immersive story arch even if at the end of the day the biggest concern ends up being who has the DKP to pick up Frostmourne ;) Another example in WoW is the DK starting area, I think most people would agree that it is a far more effective introduction to your class and why you are the way you are then any of the other classes. A sporadic class quest here or there pales in comparison to a dedicated and flushed out story line. The prospect of playing through to max level involved in such a story line for a particular class is certainly very appealing to me. Arbitrary goal or not, having an involving storyline helps getting to that goal an enjoyable experience instead of a tedious grind, that is a profound change from most MMOs.

I can see one of three things happening with this game

1. its another lame MMO
2. its not actually a true MMO, they're just calling it that for obvious monetary reasons
3. it changes the industry as one of the best video games ever (ie they somehow make a truly immersive MMO with an excellent story)

I've ordered them in terms of likelihood, however I hope its one of the latter reasons

I guess that depends on how much credit you want to give Bioware. Because they haven't let me down yet, I'm hoping for a 3 and will be let down if they come up short of that. The only question I have left atm is their end game content, I know that has been under development for some time but they seem to keep the team they have working on it locked up only giving us vague details of the direction they are planning on taking(more large scale battles then one big foe).

Farmer
07-20-2009, 09:33 AM
Ah I see your meaning. My point was that the max level should not be the goal, but instead a byproduct. Instead the focus should be concluding the story.

s44
07-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by: Farmer

An MMORPG is totally different: IMO they are built to take advantage of a player's desire to reach arbitrary goals like a "max level," or some certain rare items*. I can't see how you can fuse the two, since one detracts from the other; I don't know, maybe they managed to, I hope they manage to do it well.

*This formula works: I played Diablo 2 for the longest time, and though D2 isn't MMO, the premise is the same. But once you get to lvl 90 or thereabouts and have all the items in the world, I find myself doing nothing enjoyable but rushing other characters.
It's not *all* MMOs that are built that way -- Eve isn't -- it's Blizzard's MMO. This shouldn't be surprising, as Blizzard made the Diablo series. Bio is about making story and NPC interaction important in unlikely places (a Sonic the Hedgehog game!?), and they've had success so far.

RyanPaulShaffer
07-20-2009, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
World of Warcraft is the only driving force behind PC gaming atm.

Fixed that for ya.

waffleironhead
07-20-2009, 08:30 PM
There are so many people knocking the graphics. lets look around for some good eye candy games that were boring as hell to play. I would rather have immersive content and story line than eye candy any day.

Mem
07-21-2009, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by: Arglebargle
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: Arglebargle
It is Bioware, but...

...

Still, as SWG showed, the fans will put up with any manner of ill-formed or maladjusted game. If Bioware keeps it to even the middling levels of quality, it could be a hit It is Bioware....

Actually you are wrong,when NGE came to SWG 90% left,the guild I was in had over 120 people which all left thanks to NGE,SWG became a ghost town on most servers after that,anyway getting back on topic the graphics in TOR look ok for a MMORPG,gameplay is more important so we just have to see how that pans out.



But you see, in my opinion, the first iteration of SWG was a poorly set up and developed game. It just didn't get in your way as much as the later versions.

It is a testament to SOE that they could take Star Wars, and mess the game up so bad that people wouldn't play in droves. Doesn't mean the original was good, however.




SWG IMHO was one of the best MMORPGs before NGE, class selection where you could pick parts from different classes was unique back then,crafting was always in demand and we had some of the famous crafters on our server and to be honest I had the most fun in SWG back then then any other MMORPG(I would still be playing it if it was not for NGE),sure it was not perfect and you can find players that hated it but that goes for any MMORPG including WoW etc..

I have played 90% of them including WoW,Vanguard,EQ2,Dark&Light,Anarchy Online,Tabula Rasa,Eve,Dungeon Runners,Archlord,Warhammer Online and dozen more etc...

TOR has a lot to live up too,not everybody will be happy since no MMORPG ever made has been able to please all the players.....I don't care if its Bioware or any other company,end of the day its the final product that counts and most TOR fans have high expectations.

I do hope they release a new single player version of KOTOR ,that way everybody will be happy since TOR MMORPG is really for a specific audience of gamers/players.

Farmer
07-21-2009, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
There are so many people knocking the graphics. lets look around for some good eye candy games that were boring as hell to play. I would rather have immersive content and story line than eye candy any day.

Well ideally you'd have both.

loki8481
07-21-2009, 08:00 AM
I could only watch the video without sound (at work), so forgive me if I missed anything, but I don't get the graphics hate.

they seem good enough to me... it's an MMO, not a console game; they've got to design their game to run decently on as many systems as possible if they want to appeal to a broad audience.

as long as they reach a minimum threshold, graphics have never been a major selling point with me, and this game seems to reach that minimum threshold.

ivan2
07-21-2009, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by: Mem
SWG IMHO was one of the best MMORPGs before NGE, class selection where you could pick parts from different classes was unique back then,crafting was always in demand and we had some of the famous crafters on our server and to be honest I had the most fun in SWG back then then any other MMORPG(I would still be playing it if it was not for NGE),sure it was not perfect and you can find players that hated it but that goes for any MMORPG including WoW etc..

I have played 90% of them including WoW,Vanguard,EQ2,Dark&Light,Anarchy Online,Tabula Rasa,Eve,Dungeon Runners,Archlord,Warhammer Online and dozen more etc...

TOR has a lot to live up too,not everybody will be happy since no MMORPG ever made has been able to please all the players.....I don't care if its Bioware or any other company,end of the day its the final product that counts and most TOR fans have high expectations.

I do hope they release a new single player version of KOTOR ,that way everybody will be happy since TOR MMORPG is really for a specific audience of gamers/players.


it seems to me that the game has swing from one extreme that is a sand box of SWG to another extreme that is a single story line traditional RPG. I hope they put the SWG styled harvesting/crafting into the game, but from what I have seen so far it seems to be very closed quarter combat oriented. can't wait to find out more.

waffleironhead
07-21-2009, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by: Farmer
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
There are so many people knocking the graphics. lets look around for some good eye candy games that were boring as hell to play. I would rather have immersive content and story line than eye candy any day.

Well ideally you'd have both.

Yes, true, but the makers of this game have a history of great content. So, seeing people automatically walking away based on the graphics is ludicrous.

nanobreath
07-21-2009, 10:25 AM
After everybody's complaints on the voice acting I was expecting some kinda placeholder voiceover done by the programers. From what I saw it was spot on. Not pixar animations movie quality stuff, but certainly enough to make the game more immersive. Everything about it seemed good for a small preview. Also, I don't care what the graphics look like as long as they are consistent. All I care about is gameplay and quite frankly these previews do not show us any real gameplay. At this point they are still just telling us their philosophy and what they want the game to be. Give me a beta!!

Wuzup101
07-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by: loki8481
I could only watch the video without sound (at work), so forgive me if I missed anything, but I don't get the graphics hate.

they seem good enough to me... it's an MMO, not a console game; they've got to design their game to run decently on as many systems as possible if they want to appeal to a broad audience.

as long as they reach a minimum threshold, graphics have never been a major selling point with me, and this game seems to reach that minimum threshold.

Yeah the graphics seem fine to me too...

s44
07-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by: ivan2
it seems to me that the game has swing from one extreme that is a sand box of SWG to another extreme that is a single story line traditional RPG.
on another forum (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=1816619#post1816619), a LucasArts (I think) guy posted
No matter how much people talk about wanting to see innovation in gaming, what they really want is to hear how you compare to the stuff they know so they can pigeonhole you in their minds.

We're not playing that game. For now we will confound you and talk about the stuff that we think is revolutionary. We'll get to the stuff about how you can group, go on raids, auction stuff, loot items, etc. later.