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View Full Version : The HD7790 "Bonaire" New GPU from AMD [Edit: NOW WITH 100% MORE REVIEWS!]


GodisanAtheist
03-16-2013, 11:50 AM
Reviews:
Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/amd-radeon-7790-review-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands
TPU:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/
HWCanucks:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review.html

Just to get it out of the way: Ha ha ha yes they actually named it Bonaire. Yes that sounds like boner with a french twist. This card is going to give everyone in the ~$150 market a Bonaire etc etc etc you're very funny and original.

There are rumors around about this card being a "pipe cleaner" product for GCN 2.0, i.e. Microarch improvements but still on the same 28nm process. 7790 is intended to (obviously) fill the gaping hole between the 7850 1gb and the 7770, although I think everyone would have preferred 7850's & 7870's sliding down in price slightly than the introduction of a whole new SKU.

It performs remarkably well given its core and BUS loadout, the big if is really its potential to overclock, although it seems to be clocked well over 1ghz out of the gate.

Thoughts?

tviceman
03-16-2013, 11:57 AM
Looks like it's going to be a great chip at the price range. Nvidia is responding with a GK106 chip with the no fused off memory controllers and 4/5 SMX's enabled. This will be a good performer too at that price range and both products will ultimately put pricing pressure on the rest of current video cards on market.

:thumbsup:

Elfear
03-16-2013, 11:57 AM
Looks like it will fill a needed product gap. Should be a good card if it drops into the $120-130 range.

Termie
03-16-2013, 11:58 AM
It all comes down to price. The HD7850 1GB can be had for $150AR, so the list on this must be no higher than that. Given the track record of both gpu companies on low-end pricing, I think that's optimistic.

Binky
03-16-2013, 12:16 PM
Why would anybody pick this over the 7850?

Xarick
03-16-2013, 12:40 PM
because.. if they need a bonaire

nanaki333
03-16-2013, 12:43 PM
this reminds me of the 6790. it was technically a 256-bit card, but was so gimped, it was barely above the 6770 in performance, while using quite a bit more power. all while costing about $20+ more.

Lonyo
03-16-2013, 12:45 PM
Is it actually a new GPU, or a cut down HD7870 chip?
There were rumours at the original launch of the HD7000 series of the 7790 (or 7830) and 7890 (or 7930) based on cut down 7800 and 7900 series GPUs respectively.

skipsneeky2
03-16-2013, 12:46 PM
Why would anybody pick this over the 7850?

Strict budget and a good chance with a overclock,it can surpass the 7850.

Most of the 7850/7870/7950/7970 cards if not all can do at least a 10% overclock unless the cards are voltage locked.

notty22
03-16-2013, 12:47 PM
Launch pricing almost never makes sense VS old product that sees sales/deals. And if a new product offers no new features or a die shrink, then it's not interesting for people that follow tech. New casual buyers might like the 'new model' aspect if it comes with a game the older cards don't?
The skinny is Nvidia is gearing up a higher clocked 650ti, or one with turbo also? Better than nothing!

Silverforce11
03-16-2013, 12:58 PM
The problem is a lot of 7850s are beastly overclockers, so if the 7790 is "only" 8-10% slower out of the gate with its huge default clocks, its not going to look good comparing OC vs OC performance.

iMacmatician
03-16-2013, 01:12 PM
Is it actually a new GPU, or a cut down HD7870 chip?
There were rumours at the original launch of the HD7000 series of the 7790 (or 7830) and 7890 (or 7930) based on cut down 7800 and 7900 series GPUs respectively.Apparently it is a new GPU.

NTMBK
03-16-2013, 01:44 PM
The problem is a lot of 7850s are beastly overclockers, so if the 7790 is "only" 8-10% slower out of the gate with its huge default clocks, its not going to look good comparing OC vs OC performance.

The rumour I heard is that board makers are being barred from making stock overclocked versions of this chip in order to prevent it cannibalising the 7850, indicating it should be pretty competitive. http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30730-more-amd-bonaire-details-show-up

Red Hawk
03-16-2013, 02:33 PM
Worth noting is that this has the same amount of shaders as the GPU that is rumored to be in the next Xbox. Should the rumors turn out to be true, this will provide a close point of reference to see just how much of a performance advantage developers can get out of consoles with the same graphics chip as a PC.

Olikan
03-16-2013, 02:35 PM
another leak...
this time with 896 shaders, faster than a 7850 at BF3 and Crysis 3 :cool:

http://wccftech.com/amd-bonaire-chip-based-radeon-hd-7790-features-896-stream-processors-launching-april/

Rvenger
03-16-2013, 02:54 PM
another leak...
this time with 896 shaders, faster than a 7850 at BF3 and Crysis 3 :cool:

http://wccftech.com/amd-bonaire-chip-based-radeon-hd-7790-features-896-stream-processors-launching-april/


hmmm, GCN 2.0 in disguise??

Olikan
03-16-2013, 03:03 PM
hmmm, GCN 2.0 in disguise??

might be, GCN 2.0 pdf got released about a month ago...

GCN 2.0 have better ACE units, that should help compute performance, witch is handy at BF3....don't know much about C3 :\

Eureka
03-17-2013, 09:38 PM
The skinny is Nvidia is gearing up a higher clocked 650ti, or one with turbo also? Better than nothing!

I think Nvidia sorely needs a stopgap product in the $150 price range more than AMD needs a $120 product. There's nothing worthwhile between a ~$110 650Ti and a ~$200 660 and the gap is pretty big.

For the 7790, I don't see the point since cheap 7850s can be had for $150. The gap between the 7770 and the 7850 is only $50.. do they really need a product in every price segment?

Fanatical Meat
03-17-2013, 09:57 PM
Could someone please explain how its possible that this card could be faster at Crysis/BF3 than a 7850 that overall seems to be more of everything?

Plimogz
03-17-2013, 10:03 PM
For the 7790, I don't see the point since cheap 7850s can be had for $150. The gap between the 7770 and the 7850 is only $50.. do they really need a product in every price segment?
Hey, if you have a viable product in a price segment where the competition has none, odds are that you win that sale.

And while I completely see what you mean with regards to the cheap 1GB 7850s, the 7790 apparently comes with high clocks which land it close to little Pitcairn if neither the factory nor the end-user overclocks the 7850 to its full potential. So AMD gets to sell a smaller die for nearly the same amount of money.

Besides, what holds the most interest for me about this launch is the bit about it being a pipe-cleaner for GCN 2.0. If there's any hope of some really appreciable improvements from the 8xxx series on 28nm, AMD will certainly come out winning if they work out some bugs on Bonaire.

HurleyBird
03-17-2013, 10:06 PM
hmmm, GCN 2.0 in disguise??

Interesting. Hopefully PS4 and Nextbox are based on this new iteration of GCN!

VulgarDisplay
03-17-2013, 10:39 PM
Interesting. Hopefully PS4 and Nextbox are based on this new iteration of GCN!

Could this be the discrete GPU version of the PS4 and Xbox Next GPU's? I never saw how many stream processors they were supposed to have?

Red Hawk
03-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Could this be the discrete GPU version of the PS4 and Xbox Next GPU's? I never saw how many stream processors they were supposed to have?

PS4 is confirmed to have 1152 shaders. Next Xbox is rumored to have 768, which would match this 7790.

Olikan
03-17-2013, 11:02 PM
Could someone please explain how its possible that this card could be faster at Crysis/BF3 than a 7850 that overall seems to be more of everything?

GCN 2.0 have some tweaks at the ACE units and new instructions, nothing more

the ACE units, went from 2 comand lines, to 8... let's say, better at complex codes, but slower at simple ones

but still, can just be BS

SPBHM
03-18-2013, 12:32 AM
it could be faster in some games, simply because of the low stock clock of the 7850.

HurleyBird
03-18-2013, 01:29 AM
GCN 2.0 have some tweaks at the ACE units and new instructions, nothing more


Are you an engineer for AMD? Or do you know one?

Brekyrself
03-18-2013, 01:33 AM
Will be interested to see if this comes out in a single slot flavor...Yes i'm looking to fill every pcie slot for btc mining.

VulgarDisplay
03-18-2013, 02:58 AM
PS4 is confirmed to have 1152 shaders. Next Xbox is rumored to have 768, which would match this 7790.

I thought this had 896 stream processors?

Tuna-Fish
03-18-2013, 04:41 AM
Could someone please explain how its possible that this card could be faster at Crysis/BF3 than a 7850 that overall seems to be more of everything?

Stock 7850 has really low clocks. This could easily have very similar or even higher shading power if it clocks high enough.

Also, it's supposed to have new and improved command processors, which should help increase efficiency in a lot of situations.

NTMBK
03-18-2013, 05:24 AM
Could this be the discrete GPU version of the PS4 and Xbox Next GPU's? I never saw how many stream processors they were supposed to have?

I don't see why it would have more in common with a GCN APU than with existing GCN dGPUs?

Olikan
03-18-2013, 07:25 AM
Are you an engineer for AMD? Or do you know one?

nop...i just know some awesome forums ;)

link where i found about sea islands....
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=61390&page=44

Red Hawk
03-18-2013, 02:34 PM
I thought this had 896 stream processors?

You're right! My mistake. The 7790 is not an exact match for the next Xbox's rumored GPU in shader processors.

Olikan
03-21-2013, 09:56 AM
more info...
A presentation slide, allegedly by AMD, leaked by a Japanese distributor confirmed specifications of AMD's upcoming Radeon HD 7790 graphics card. According to the slide, the HD 7790 is indeed based on a brand new silicon, with a transistor count of 2.08 billion. Compare that, to the 1.5 billion TC of "Cape Verde," and 2.80 billion of "Pitcairn." The silicon is built on the 28 nanometer silicon fab process.

The clock speed mentioned in the slide could be core, which is clocked at 1.00 GHz. Next up is the stream processor count, which stands at 896. The HD 7790 is mentioned to feature a primitive rate of 2 prim/clk, suggesting that its component hierarchy is more similar to "Tahiti" than "Cape Verde," which could mean double the tessellation processing power. All said and done, the HD 7790 belts out 1.79 TFLOPs of floating-point performance. The source goes on to mention in its text that the card features a 128-bit wide memory interface, memory clock speed of 6.00 GHz (96 GB/s), a TDP of 85W, and a single 6-pin PCIe power connector. It is expected to launch no later than tomorrow (22/03).it should end beeing faster than a 7770 (by almost 40%) and using less power (100w vs 85w)...

btw....it looks similar to PS4 performance...in terms of Gflops, it seems beat a 7850 Oo

http://www.techpowerup.com/181740/AMD-Radeon-HD-7790-Physical-Specifications-Release-Date-Confirmed.html

http://tpucdn.com/img/13-03-21/3a_thm.jpg

Silverforce11
03-21-2013, 11:37 AM
more info...
it should end beeing faster than a 7770 (by almost 40%) and using less power (100w vs 85w)...

btw....it looks similar to PS4 performance...in terms of Gflops, it seems beat a 7850 Oo

http://www.techpowerup.com/181740/AMD-Radeon-HD-7790-Physical-Specifications-Release-Date-Confirmed.html

http://tpucdn.com/img/13-03-21/3a_thm.jpg

Its going to be so bandwidth starved, all that processing power on 128bit bus... so meh.

Arkadrel
03-21-2013, 12:10 PM
Its going to be so bandwidth starved, all that processing power on 128bit bus... so meh.


Silverforce11 has a good point.

Gflops:
7790 = 1.79 Gflops ( 85watts TPDmax) (~60% less power used)
7850 = 1.76 Gflops (130watts TPDmax)

Memory bandwidth:
7790 = 96,0 GB/s
7850 = 153,6 GB/s (~60% more memory bandwidth)


I think this card is gonna be great for people that run lower resolutions.
Probably end up performing like the 7850 or beating it in a few cases.


The HD 7790 is mentioned to feature a primitive rate of 2 prim/clk, suggesting that its component hierarchy is more similar to "Tahiti" than "Cape Verde," which could mean double the tessellation processing power.


I think this little card is gonna be great, and I hope its not too limited by memory bandwidth.

Olikan
03-21-2013, 12:46 PM
Its going to be so bandwidth starved, all that processing power on 128bit bus... so meh.

yeah... the bandwidth is a killer, even at OC it stood behind a stock 7850...

but it will be a great card for bitcoin miners :P

SithSolo1
03-21-2013, 03:02 PM
So fine for 1680x1050 but 1920x1200 not so much?

Olikan
03-21-2013, 03:35 PM
So fine for 1680x1050 but 1920x1200 not so much?

don't expect 4xAA in 1920x1200, but should do fine withouth :P

Imouto
03-21-2013, 04:18 PM
Dat TDP!

85W TDP by AMD standards delivering almost the same gaming power than the HD 7850 which has 130W TDP is a huge accomplishment.

Silverforce11
03-21-2013, 04:36 PM
Dat TDP!

85W TDP by AMD standards delivering almost the same gaming power than the HD 7850 which has 130W TDP is a huge accomplishment.

If true, it may signal the next gen high end with GCN 2.0 being much more efficient.

Arkadrel
03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
Dat TDP!

85W TDP by AMD standards delivering almost the same gaming power than the HD 7850 which has 130W TDP is a huge accomplishment.


If true, it may signal the next gen high end with GCN 2.0 being much more efficient. Im not sure if this is full GCN 2.0, but its probably like a half & half.
Maybe GCN 1.5 or something.

Eitherway it does appear like its more efficient.
Which sounds good for when the next gen series of cards come out.

The fact that tessellation ability might go up x2 is pretty big too.


**edit: Part of why it uses less power than the 7850, is the 256bit bus vs 128bit bus.

So its kinda oranges and apples.
But compaired to a 7770, that is also 128bit you probably get a better idea in terms of efficincy.

7770 = 16,00 Gflops / watts
7790 = 21,08 Gflops / watts (~31,8% improvment over the 7770)

Brekyrself
03-21-2013, 06:54 PM
but it will be a great card for bitcoin miners :P

Been waiting for this card in single slot format, have an extra older computer I need to mine with! If all else fails I'll just hack up a dual slot card.

Arkadrel
03-21-2013, 07:05 PM
Google search and I found this:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/sapphire-7790-dual-x,P-X-376773-3.jpg


http://hardwarebbq.com/2013/03/sapphires-radeon-hd-7790-bonaire-pictures-benchmarks-displayed/

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Sapphire-HD-7790-Bonaire-Tested,21550.html

http://hardwarebbq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/image.png

http://hardwarebbq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/3dm.png


It seems like with early beta drivers,
its about ~8% slower than a 7850, in both "3D mark 11", and "Fire Strike".

*edit again:
Notice how it scores more than the 6970 does! and its doing so on a 128bit bus.
(with probably slower CPU (since total score is lower, but graphic score is higher)

Olikan
03-21-2013, 07:47 PM
Im not sure if this is full GCN 2.0, but its probably like a half & half.
Maybe GCN 1.5 or something.

Eitherway it does appear like its more efficient.
Which sounds good for when the next gen series of cards come out.

The fact that tessellation ability might go up x2 is pretty big too.

GCN 2.0...should be named GCN 1.1, the changes are very small :P

but yeah, i do have my doubts too

skipsneeky2
03-21-2013, 07:52 PM
Dat TDP!

85W TDP by AMD standards delivering almost the same gaming power than the HD 7850 which has 130W TDP is a huge accomplishment.

Making me wanna perhaps sell off my 7850 and switch to a 7790 as i will be hooking up my 720p t.v as my tower has sorta become a htpc,low noise and heat and those tdp numbers make for a interesting card.

Arkadrel
03-21-2013, 08:11 PM
GCN 2.0...should be named GCN 1.1, the changes are very small :P

Still.....

________________ 7770 Vs 7790:
Steam processors:__ 640 vs 768 (+20%)
GPU frequency:____1000 vs 1075 (~1.1%)

Performance differnce? ~40%

Its a improvement, when you have 20% more "gpu" in steam processors,
but you have more than a 40% increase in performance.

Olikan
03-21-2013, 11:01 PM
first benches...

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/sapphire-hd-7790-review

Plimogz
03-21-2013, 11:52 PM
Still.....

________________ 7770 Vs 7790:
Steam processors:__ 640 vs 768 (+20%)
GPU frequency:____1000 vs 1075 (~1.1%)

Performance differnce? ~40%

Its a improvement, when you have 20% more "gpu" in steam processors,
but you have more than a 40% increase in performance.

40% more performance from 20% more Stream Procs. would be nice. Unfortunately, the TPU preview from the OP says 896 (which is exactly 40% more) and the Tom's hardware link says 728 (which sounds like a typo, but still).

And Olikan's link sets up the comparison between a 7770, a 7790 and a 650ti, but then the labels on all benchmark results have a Cape Verde pro 7750 rather than the 7770 Cape Verde XT.

In all, I'm waiting for the real reviews -- which according to Fudzilla are going to show up tomorrow, the 22nd. (also according to Fud, Bonaire has 768 processors).

MrK6
03-21-2013, 11:59 PM
Decent performance that will fill the gap between the 7770 and 7850 (which was quite large, tbh). Hopefully they eventually price it in the $120-130 range to make it viable.

Red Hawk
03-22-2013, 12:05 AM
Anandtech review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/amd-radeon-7790-review-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands

DiogoDX
03-22-2013, 01:01 AM
Reivews.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_7790_review_benchmark,1.html
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/amd-radeon-7790-review-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/1.html

blastingcap
03-22-2013, 01:17 AM
Still no frametimes or anything other than freaking FPS from Anandtech. Shameful display!

Card seems pretty good esp. when you factor in the value of the Bioshock Infinite game bundled with it. The 1GB framebuffer is a little low by today's standards.

Binky
03-22-2013, 01:24 AM
Tom's:

If you already own a Radeon HD 6870 or GeForce GTX 560, there's really no reason to spend money on a 7790, even though the new card offers better efficiency and less heat. On the other hand, if you're using a GeForce GTX 650 or Radeon HD 7770, the Bonaire-based board does offer a more notable speed-up. Should you find yourself interested, be aware that availability of Radeon HD 7790s isn't expected until the first week of April.

/yawn

VirtualLarry
03-22-2013, 01:27 AM
Hmm, so this would or would not be a step up from a 1GB GTX460 OC card? (820Mhz)

blastingcap
03-22-2013, 01:29 AM
Reivews.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_7790_review_benchmark,1.html
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/amd-radeon-7790-review-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/1.html

Thanks for the links. I wonder what the heck HardwareCanucks meant by this:

"AMD's performance against the current crop of NVIDIA offerings may be impressive but that situation is bound to change very soon. We can't tell you what's in store but let's just say that NVIDIA certainly isn't taking this challenge lying down and is poised to respond with a full scale broadside much sooner than you may think."

BallaTheFeared
03-22-2013, 01:36 AM
Thanks for the links. I wonder what the heck HardwareCanucks meant by this:

"AMD's performance against the current crop of NVIDIA offerings may be impressive but that situation is bound to change very soon. We can't tell you what's in store but let's just say that NVIDIA certainly isn't taking this challenge lying down and is poised to respond with a full scale broadside much sooner than you may think."

Probably a full product stack refresh outside of Titan, while AMD is stable through 2013 and adds two new 7 series cards to fill in gaps.

cusideabelincoln
03-22-2013, 01:43 AM
Hmm, so this would or would not be a step up from a 1GB GTX460 OC card? (820Mhz)

Not really a step up in performance, but you'll cut power consumption in half.

dagamer34
03-22-2013, 01:43 AM
I think Nvidia sorely needs a stopgap product in the $150 price range more than AMD needs a $120 product. There's nothing worthwhile between a ~$110 650Ti and a ~$200 660 and the gap is pretty big.

For the 7790, I don't see the point since cheap 7850s can be had for $150. The gap between the 7770 and the 7850 is only $50.. do they really need a product in every price segment?

PC OEMs do, or more correctly, they ask for it anyway. You've already said it, because Nvidia isn't offering at $150 product, AMD can. And remember, PC OEMs don't deal with rebates, but OEM pricing, so there's none of this value stuff about "free games"

blastingcap
03-22-2013, 01:45 AM
Not really a step up in performance, but you'll cut power consumption in half.

Only at load. Most PCs spend most of their lives in idle where the GTX 460 is already pretty low idle wattage.

VulgarDisplay
03-22-2013, 01:45 AM
Too bad it has only 1gb of memory. It would probably be a fun card to overclock if the performance scales as well as other 7xxx series cards.

svenge
03-22-2013, 02:14 AM
Thanks for the links. I wonder what the heck HardwareCanucks meant by this:

"AMD's performance against the current crop of NVIDIA offerings may be impressive but that situation is bound to change very soon. We can't tell you what's in store but let's just say that NVIDIA certainly isn't taking this challenge lying down and is poised to respond with a full scale broadside much sooner than you may think."

The rumors are that NVIDIA's going to be coming out with a GTX 655 / "GTX 650 Ti Boost" card shortly.

SPBHM
03-22-2013, 04:48 AM
pretty decent upgrade option for HD4800/5700/6700 (and GTS250, 450, GTX 260...) owners I think.

Dark Shroud
03-22-2013, 04:53 AM
The 7790 is a great budget card option. I'll probably buy one for my nephew instead of a 7770.

psolord
03-22-2013, 05:11 AM
A couple more reviews
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/890-1/amd-radeon-hd-7790-test-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost.html
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/amd-radeon-hd-7790-im-test/

Granseth
03-22-2013, 05:26 AM
Seems like AMD has a great cooler option for this card, at least with acoustics. But since they usually don't make the best coolers everyone is putting in their own instead.

Olikan
03-22-2013, 07:53 AM
frames-time test... WAY smoother than the other 7000 series

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review-7.html
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review-8.html

maybe the shutter was an arquitecture problem? or the new turbo helped?

DarkKnightDude
03-22-2013, 07:58 AM
Impressive how quiet it is, especially on a reference design. Cooler is half decent.

Leadbox
03-22-2013, 08:14 AM
frames-time test... WAY smoother than the other 7000 series

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review-7.html
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60303-amd-radeon-hd-7790-review-8.html

maybe the shutter was an arquitecture problem? or the new turbo helped?

Interesting, might have been a bit better too had 13.3 drivers been used instead

Arkadrel
03-22-2013, 08:39 AM
Hmm, so this would or would not be a step up from a 1GB GTX460 OC card? (820Mhz)


Well a Stock 460 is abit slower than a 6850.
It seems like the 7790's are about ~20% faster than the 6850.

Im guessing if you have a good overclock on that 460 of yours,
the differnce would be pretty small.

Erenhardt
03-22-2013, 08:45 AM
Well a Stock 460 is abit slower than a 6850.
It seems like the 7790's are about ~20% faster than the 6850.

Put it this way: gtx460 is a bit lower than hd7770. 7790 is 20% faster than 7770.
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/images/perfrel.gif (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/26.html)

Silverforce11
03-22-2013, 09:29 AM
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/29.html

So bandwidth starved its getting small gains for big core OC.

Erenhardt
03-22-2013, 09:40 AM
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/29.html

So bandwidth starved its getting small gains for big core OC.

If you compare 7790 to 6870 performance summary tabs:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7790_DirectCU_II_OC/26.html

You can see that there is very little gain on the 6870 side. 256bit memory would not give much of an improvement I guess.
A lot smarter poeple than most of us designed this GPU, trust them.
Is it really $100 GPU?
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/gigabyte_hd7790_review,1.html

SPBHM
03-22-2013, 10:10 AM
Well a Stock 460 is abit slower than a 6850.
It seems like the 7790's are about ~20% faster than the 6850.

Im guessing if you have a good overclock on that 460 of yours,
the differnce would be pretty small.

stock GTX 460 is a rare card I think, at 820MHz the GTX 460 will perform the same as the gtx 560.

coffeejunkee
03-22-2013, 10:24 AM
I think Nvidia sorely needs a stopgap product in the $150 price range more than AMD needs a $120 product. There's nothing worthwhile between a ~$110 650Ti and a ~$200 660 and the gap is pretty big.

For the 7790, I don't see the point since cheap 7850s can be had for $150. The gap between the 7770 and the 7850 is only $50.. do they really need a product in every price segment?

Where do you get those prices from? On Newegg price for GTX650Ti atm starts at $140. Yes, there's an MSI card for $115 but it's with a rebate. HD7850 starts at $180 for the 1GB version. There are some 2GB versions for slightly more but the good ones are more like $200. Lowest price for HD7770 without rebate: $120, with rebate: $90. For a really fair comparison you'll have to take future rebates on the 7790 into account as well.

Ok, so gap between 7770 and 7850 1GB at regular prices is $60, imho large enough for something around $140-160. Especially if it's a decent card which this 7790 seems to be. I do see the point because 7770 is a little too weak for 1080p entry level gaming while 7790 is just enough. Sure, 7790 for 7770 price would be nice but it might be asking too much. All in all I'd say prices represent performance quite well, except GTX650Ti has to go down a bit.

Arkadrel
03-22-2013, 10:38 AM
Im still really impressed by the performance of this chip.
Its clearly the fastest 128bit bus chip on the market.


The GTX 650 Ti (~10% slower than the 7790 (1075mhz)) (128bit bus chip) (221mm^2 chip)
The AMD 6870 (~1% slower than the 7790 (1075mhz)) (256bit bus chip) (255mm^2 chip)
The AMD 7790 -------------------------------------- (128bit bus chip) (160mm^2 chip)
The GTX 560 Ti (~5% faster than the 7790 (1075mhz)) (192bit bus chip) (360mm^2 chip)

Its a 128bit bus chip giveing some 192bit/256bit cards a run for the money.

The small bus means its a smaller chip => should translate into cheaper to produce, than the 192/256bit ones its competeing against. This card is gonna drive prices around this range down, which is a win for the consumers.


All in all I'd say prices represent performance quite well, except GTX650Ti has to go down a bit. Yep if the 7790 ends up around 140$, then the 650ti would have to go down in price.
~10% performance differnce would be enough to make most people pick a AMD card instead of the simularly priced nvidia card.

Competition is good for the consumer.


----- my thoughts:
when AMD had the better of nvidia back with the 4xxx-5xxx series, that was partly because of fast GDDR speeds and lower bus widths.

Now nvidia has the better of AMD, and again its probably because of bus widths.

Its clear to me, that if you can make a chip smaller by useing smaller bus, the "increased" power usage of faster Ram speeds, is a good price to pay. Because smaller chip = less power used, so it "pays" of the increased power usage of the ram (no loss). At the same time, your chip is smaller than it would have been if you went with a wide(r) bus width = better profits / lower prices to compete on.

It has me wondering why AMD went with "384" bit width busses for their bigger cards,
instead of just going 256bit + faster GDDR speeds like nvidia did.

Would AMD have been better off this generation with 256bit bus cards for their 79xx series, and instead haveing 1600mhz GDDR ram speeds, and smaller chips clocked higher? I think so.

Anyways.... I think the 7790 is a strong addition, and is gonna drive competiton in that price range, by alot.

Erenhardt
03-22-2013, 11:56 AM
All in all I'd say prices represent performance quite well, except GTX650Ti has to go down a bit.

And that is disappointing. I thought 7790 will put some pressure on existing cards bringing their prices down a little bit.
Imagine if we have this situation for 5 years. If every card released from now on will be priced accordingly to their performance, taking fixed performance/$ ratio, we will end up with GPU prices of $5000 for a card.
That is why I think that new GPUs need to have better performance/$ than existing ones.

GaiaHunter
03-22-2013, 12:44 PM
And that is disappointing. I thought 7790 will put some pressure on existing cards bringing their prices down a little bit.
Imagine if we have this situation for 5 years. If every card released from now on will be priced accordingly to their performance, taking fixed performance/$ ratio, we will end up with GPU prices of $5000 for a card.
That is why I think that new GPUs need to have better performance/$ than existing ones.

It doesn't put direct pressure.
But if enough people stop buying the cheaper cards or the more expensive cards to go with the 7790, soon those cards will stop moving units and have growing stocks.

Then you can be certain there will be price pressure.

Olikan
03-22-2013, 01:07 PM
WTF!!! ...how? o_O

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1702/pg16/sapphire-hd-7790-dual-x-overclocked-edition-graphics-card-review-5760x1080-eyefinity-gaming.html

Midwayman
03-22-2013, 01:14 PM
Just to get it out of the way: Ha ha ha yes they actually named it Bonaire. Yes that sounds like boner with a french twist. This card is going to give everyone in the ~$150 market a Bonaire etc etc etc you're very funny and original.

Weird thing is that its a caribbean island. I thought the naming scheme was all south pacific. Bonaire has great shore diving and a not a whole lot else. Part of the ABC islands- Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao.

crisium
03-22-2013, 01:44 PM
pretty decent upgrade option for HD4800/5700/6700 (and GTS250, 450, GTX 260...) owners I think.

I agree. If you have a 5770 / 550Ti or lower tier card, this isn't a bad option. Of course spending $30 more (not including rebates) for a 7850 makes far more sense. But if you value a quiet card with very low power usage and are willing to dial down a setting, then the 7790 wouldn't be the worst purchase. Techpowerup is stating that it's offers the best power consumption-to-performance ration of any modern card. Some people value efficiency.

SithSolo1
03-22-2013, 01:48 PM
WTF!!! ...how? o_O

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1702/pg16/sapphire-hd-7790-dual-x-overclocked-edition-graphics-card-review-5760x1080-eyefinity-gaming.html

No AA so you remove most of the memory constraint. I don't really consider 29 AvFPS in BF3 playable though.

Arkadrel
03-22-2013, 02:50 PM
sometimes it does really good:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/7/H/377405/original/Crysis3.png


http://media.bestofmicro.com/7/G/377404/original/Crysis3-V.png

Like here:
the 560 has a minimum fps of 17.
the 650 has a minimum fps of 11.

So for a game like Crysis 3, the 7790 crushes the 650 and 560.

Same with F1 2012:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/7/K/377408/original/F12012.png

tviceman
03-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Probably a full product stack refresh outside of Titan, while AMD is stable through 2013 and adds two new 7 series cards to fill in gaps.

I still think the next upcoming GK110 geforce SKU will be the 700 series flagship card. 320-bit memory, 13 SMX's, DP performance cut down, probably the same or very similar clocks as Titan. $649 GTX780 5gb vram, $599 GTX780 2.5gb vram. GK114/204 (whatever GK104 refreshed is called) gets a 5-7% performance bump at the same or slightly lower TDP that it's at now and will start out at $449. That's my guess!

Anyways back on topic, 7790 is a good performer.

Mopetar
03-22-2013, 03:21 PM
Not a bad card and fills a good niche. Depending on the game, this card has some value. I'm also curious about how well it can overclock, as the Sapphire card can apparently keep it plenty cool, even with the moderate factory overclock.

SithSolo1
03-22-2013, 03:33 PM
Not a bad card and fills a good niche. Depending on the game, this card has some value. I'm also curious about how well it can overclock, as the Sapphire card can apparently keep it plenty cool, even with the moderate factory overclock.

The core overclocks fine but the limited memory bandwidth keeps the gains down. So far it appears the memory clock is locked.

Erenhardt
03-22-2013, 04:20 PM
The core overclocks fine but the limited memory bandwidth keeps the gains down. So far it appears the memory clock is locked.

It is not...
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/images/gpuz_oc.gif (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/29.html)
7.0GHz+

Arkadrel
03-22-2013, 04:38 PM
It is not...
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/images/gpuz_oc.gif (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/29.html)
7.0GHz+


http://img.mu.cdn.li/Ao/xqefEH.jpg


1765mhz... thats.... 7060mhz on the ram.

Lmao at 113 GB/s memory bandwidth on a 128bit bus.

Thats nothing short of Impressive!
AMD must have put some serious work into the memory bus with this chip.

A 7850 (stock) has 153 GB/s with a 256bit bus.
113 GB/s is ~74% of that, while useing a bus width half of the 7850's.


* found the review, its from:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/29.html

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/images/perf_oc.gif

Those are some decent gains.
Its beating the 6970 pretty solidly (card with 176 GB/s memory bandwidth)

17% GPU overclock & 10% memory overclock = 15%+ performance increase.

That seems like a decent enough overclock, for a card that already has so high memory speeds.

**looked at afew other Techpowerup reviews of the 7790,
they all have memory over 1750+ in the overclock part of the reviews.
So it doesnt seem like its just a lucky card type of thing.

Whatever AMD did on the bus side for the new architecture its impressive.

SithSolo1
03-22-2013, 04:56 PM
It is not...
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/images/gpuz_oc.gif (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/29.html)
7.0GHz+

Glad to be proven wrong though I swear I saw a review or two say they couldn't get the memory to budge.


Any thoughs as to whether a PICO PSU would be enough for an Ivy i5(stock or under-volted), mini-itx mobo, 1 ssd, and this 7790? Finding a case to fit it might be an issue but you could make one potent little portable rig if it would run.

Arkadrel
03-22-2013, 05:18 PM
SithSolo1 (http://forums.anandtech.com/member.php?u=47164)

PicoPSU-160-XT.

160watts to work with.... dont think it would be safe to run a Ivy i5 + 7790 on that.
If you "underclock" the 7790, and use like a i3-3220 or something, it could probably work.

But why not just get a slightly bigger Case, and a "real sized" PSU?
It would still be portable, and then you could still have a i5 Ivy + overclock ect.

Such as:
BitFenix Prodigy Arctic White Steel & Plastic Mini-ITX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A7DYbeolPNw#!

http://www.advantionline.com/images/D/3.jpeg

Erenhardt
03-22-2013, 05:38 PM
A 7850 (stock) has 153 GB/s with a 256bit bus.
113 GB/s is ~74% of that, while useing a bus width half of the 7850's.


HD8000 middle-end card (HD8850) with 256bit bus will have nice memory bandwidth if they can pull those kind of freqs.
It may be a reason why there is only 128bit bus. They were able to get 2x 64bit controllers to work with 7GHz freq. Having wider 256bit bus means 4 controllers. It was easier to make 2 good quality ones than 4 average?

Arkadrel
03-22-2013, 05:52 PM
@Erenhardt

I doubt it. I think its a matter of :

increased ram speed = Xa more power use.
increased bus width + slower speed ram = Xb more power use.

compaireing those, and looking at die size differnces ect.
Cost of fast ram + small bus width vs slower cheaper ram + wider bus.

AND....

most importantly, I think its a matter of.... can it be done?

Can it be done? looks like it.

I think its just showing whats possible with GCN 1.1, as people are calling it. It might even have been a test, to see if they could get bus's running at those speeds (for future use). Where the 7790 was a test to see how it would turn out.


A 256bit bus, that has GDDR5 running at 7.0ghz+ would mean you had:
256x1.765 / 8 x 4 = ~225 GB/s memory bandwidth.

A 7970 has about 264 GB/s Memory bandwidth.

SithSolo1
03-22-2013, 06:28 PM
SithSolo1 (http://forums.anandtech.com/member.php?u=47164)

PicoPSU-160-XT.

160watts to work with.... dont think it would be safe to run a Ivy i5 + 7790 on that.
If you "underclock" the 7790, and use like a i3-3220 or something, it could probably work.

But why not just get a slightly bigger Case, and a "real sized" PSU?
It would still be portable, and then you could still have a i5 Ivy + overclock ect.

Such as:
BitFenix Prodigy Arctic White Steel & Plastic Mini-ITX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A7DYbeolPNw#!


Thank you for the suggestion but the Prodigy is one of the largest mini-ITX cases on the market and an order of magnitude larger than what I'm interested in. I was looking at something more along the lines of this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?282071-NFC-S3-Chassis-(100-aluminum-ITX-and-made-in-America)&p=5177118&viewfull=1#post5177118

TPD of an i5 is 77w or less and its 85w for the 7790. Thats 162w. Add another 10w for the mobo, cpu fan, and SSD. Yeah its pushing it but it might be possible as you won't be maxing the CPU and GPU at the same time unless benchmarking. Only thing to really worry about is the power spike on boot up.

Even an undervolted and underclocked i5 will beat an i3 in most programs/games.

Now all I need is the cash to test it.

Edit:
Another option would be this case: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1750863
Its larger but I could use a full SFX PSU. Then again with a full SFX PSU I could run an i7 with Titan if I had the money.

MeldarthX
03-22-2013, 07:09 PM
Sith you are mad and I like it :)

and jesus this card is mad......hell tempted to pick one of these bad boys to play with on spare system for the kid.....so I can have mine back when he comes over :)

BeauCharles
03-22-2013, 07:34 PM
Good card, but I just don't buy 1GB anymore.

Red Hawk
03-22-2013, 08:16 PM
Good card, but I just don't buy 1GB anymore.

I bet there will be custom designs with 2 GB, at a bit of a price premium.

VulgarDisplay
03-23-2013, 02:27 AM
AMD slid their Bonaire into the price gap nicely.

psolord
03-23-2013, 02:59 AM
I bet there will be custom designs with 2 GB, at a bit of a price premium.

That's quite probable, but there are 7850s with 2GB below 200 already and we all know what the 7850s can do. I don't see the point.

GodisanAtheist
03-23-2013, 04:03 AM
AMD slid their Bonaire into the price gap nicely.

The fact that it took 95 freaking posts for one of these brings a tear to my eye. YOU DUN GROWD UP VC&G. YOU A MAN NOW.

BallaTheFeared
03-23-2013, 04:29 AM
I bet there will be custom designs with 2 GB, at a bit of a price premium.

Probably slot between the 1GB 7850 and 2GB 7850 and totally not be worth it.

Also lol @ the hardware haven review, $400 worth of $130 1080p screens with a $100 grapics card - makes perfect sense me to.

Arkadrel
03-23-2013, 08:28 AM
Power efficiency went up alot with the 7790:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/13.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/24.html


Its about 17% slower than a 7870 in cysis 2 (1680x1050).
Its above the 6950 and sidelines to the 560ti in this benchmark.

Meanwhile the 7870 uses like 50% more power than the 7790.

Avg power use (cysis 2 bench):
650ti = 66 watts (about 11% slower than 7790, in this bench)
7790 = 69 watts
7870 = 103 watts (about 17% faster in this bench)
6870 = 119 watts (slower than the 7790 in this bench)
6950 = 121 watts (same performance as 7790 in this bench)
560ti = 148 watts (same performance as 7790 in this bench) (more than TWICE the power use)

Its on top of the list of highest Performance-per-watt cards on Techpowerup.

Wall Street
03-23-2013, 12:57 PM
I can't wait to see the 256-bit version of this architecture. The huge memory speeds and good power draw these are getting should mean a card that competes near the HD 7950.

I wonder if AMD is making this and calling this 7000 series to phase out the die harvested parts. This could replace the HD 7850 1 GB which is rumored to be phased out, and eventually they can replace the 7950 with the larger version of this.

parvadomus
03-23-2013, 01:07 PM
I can't wait to see the 256-bit version of this architecture. The huge memory speeds and good power draw these are getting should mean a card that competes near the HD 7950.

I cant wait to see a highend version with these tweaks (384bit bus). 7790 is exactly 1/3 of rumoured 8970 non-oem GPU:


7790 8970 (3x7790)
shaders: 896 2688
bus w. : 128bits 384bits
rops: 16 48
tmus: 56 168


3x 7790 speed = titan performance

ICDP
03-25-2013, 02:40 PM
At the prices this card is going for it's a complete rip-off here in the UK. Paying the same money for less performance over a HD 7850 1GB.

Way to go AMD. :thumbsdown:

At least in the USA it is $30-$40 cheaper and falls in line with price/perf.

Olikan
03-25-2013, 02:56 PM
bonaire have increased the perf/watt so well, that i think that this old table might be possible...

http://cdn3.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/AMD-Oland-HD-8870_-HD8850.jpg

ICDP
03-25-2013, 03:07 PM
bonaire have increased the perf/watt so well, that i think that this old table might be possible...

http://cdn3.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/AMD-Oland-HD-8870_-HD8850.jpg

The 7790 load power consumption is very good but the HD 7850 doesn't exactly suck the juice considering it is around 20% faster.

Olikan
03-25-2013, 03:55 PM
The 7790 load power consumption is very good but the HD 7850 doesn't exactly suck the juice considering it is around 20% faster.

yeah...TDP should go a bit higher, not decrease...:hmm:

but still possible :whiste:

hansmoleman8
03-26-2013, 11:27 PM
Annnd Bonaire is now irrelevant.

$149 GTX 650 Ti Boost is to Bonaire what GTX 670 was to Tahiti. NVidia totally embarrassed AMD.

The 650 Ti Boost has more raw performance capability than the 12 month old, stable, Pitcairn (7850). It doesn't even make sense on paper. 192 bit memory bus, fewer shaders, fewer ROPs

blastingcap
03-26-2013, 11:50 PM
7850 is faster on average than gtx 650 Ti Boost, sorry to burst your bubble. 7850 remains a good card and overclock vs overclock the gtx 650 Ti Boost is even less likely to keep up. gtx 650 Ti Boost should still outperform the new 7790 though, stock vs stock or oc vs oc.

parvadomus
03-26-2013, 11:52 PM
Annnd Bonaire is now irrelevant.

$149 GTX 650 Ti Boost is to Bonaire what GTX 670 was to Tahiti. NVidia totally embarrassed AMD.

The 650 Ti Boost has more raw performance capability than the 12 month old, stable, Pitcairn (7850). It doesn't even make sense on paper. 192 bit memory bus, fewer shaders, fewer ROPs, more power consumption, more mhz @ core, less OC capability, and of course a bigger die :whiste:

Fixed :awe:

Rvenger
03-26-2013, 11:55 PM
Annnd Bonaire is now irrelevant.

$149 GTX 650 Ti Boost is to Bonaire what GTX 670 was to Tahiti. NVidia totally embarrassed AMD.

The 650 Ti Boost has more raw performance capability than the 12 month old, stable, Pitcairn (7850). It doesn't even make sense on paper. 192 bit memory bus, fewer shaders, fewer ROPs


You missed the whole point of Bonaire...


efficiency



and its the fastest 128bit bus graphics card on the market.

hansmoleman8
03-26-2013, 11:59 PM
You missed the whole point of Bonaire...


efficiency



and its the fastest 128bit bus graphics card on the market.

You missed the point of GTX 650 Ti Boost.....

efficient performance in dollar terms

> fastest 128bit bus graphics card on the market.

anyone cares because?

I wanna meet the penny counting gamers that care about 84 vs 140 watt TDP.

more power consumption, more mhz @ core, less OC capability, and of course a bigger die

Fixed :awe:

Relevant ... because? People on this forum run multiple boxes with kilowatts of power...

Oh, also, have you met Tahiti LE http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/01/01/powercolor_radeon_hd_7870_myst_edition_review#.UVJ vARyk8bY

3DVagabond
03-27-2013, 05:07 AM
You missed the whole point of Bonaire...


efficiency



and its the fastest 128bit bus graphics card on the market.

You missed the point of GTX 650 Ti Boost.....

efficient performance in dollar terms

> fastest 128bit bus graphics card on the market.

anyone cares because?

I wanna meet the penny counting gamers that care about 84 vs 140 watt TDP.



Relevant ... because? People on this forum run multiple boxes with kilowatts of power...

Oh, also, have you met Tahiti LE http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/01/01/powercolor_radeon_hd_7870_myst_edition_review#.UVJ vARyk8bY

It's interesting to see these two positions flip flop .

Tahiti: better performance+lower price
GK104: Uses less power.

650ti Boost: Better performance+same price
Bonaire: Uses less power.

I can't believe people have these superficial discussions. Doesn't anyone care what it's really about?

AMD releases a card to fill the performance gap between 7770 and 7850. nVidia, and everyone else, knew the performance target of bonaire and releases a card that's virtually the same performance as the 7850, knowing it will outperform the 7790. nVidia waited until Bonaire was released to be certain they had their targets correct. If Bonaire was faster or cheaper than they thought it was going to be, they could have reloaded. It wasn't necessary though because AMD was completely transparent on Bonaire before release.

Ancalagon44
03-27-2013, 05:12 AM
I wanna meet the penny counting gamers that care about 84 vs 140 watt TDP.


I care because I stupidly bought a 450W Corsair PSU and dont want to have to upgrade my PSU just for a graphics card.

MeldarthX
03-27-2013, 05:19 AM
At the prices this card is going for it's a complete rip-off here in the UK. Paying the same money for less performance over a HD 7850 1GB.

Way to go AMD. :thumbsdown:

At least in the USA it is $30-$40 cheaper and falls in line with price/perf.


Where have you seen it as the same as 7850??

On ave I've seen it for 120-125; some going into 130ish range; that's on ebuyer - no where have I seen it as the same price as 1gig 7850....

1 gig 7850 cheapest I've seen is 149.99 :)

Close in price yes on some of the OC models; but not the same

ICDP
03-27-2013, 07:18 AM
Where have you seen it as the same as 7850??

On ave I've seen it for 120-125; some going into 130ish range; that's on ebuyer - no where have I seen it as the same price as 1gig 7850....

1 gig 7850 cheapest I've seen is 149.99 :)

Close in price yes on some of the OC models; but not the same

My post was made before the GTX650Ti boost was revealed. Now 7790s are being sold for ~£20 less than they were a few days ago.

A few days ago in the UK the 7790 was overpriced and at similar prices to a 1GB 7850 which was a scam. It is now at a much more realistic price point thanks to the 650Ti.

Tuna-Fish
03-27-2013, 07:48 AM
> fastest 128bit bus graphics card on the market.

anyone cares because?

Cost to manufacture. Taking into account the narrower bus and the smaller die, expect that Bonaire can be sold for quite a bit less than 650 Ti Boost can while still making a profit. The launch price of Bonaire is frankly just a bit high. However, looking at the specs, mainly the 160mm≤ die and the 128-bit bus, the card should cost about the same to make as 5770 did, and that sold for around $100 for most of it's life.

I expect the pricing on Bonaire to fall to a level where 650Ti can't reach it, and then sell a lot.

tincart
03-27-2013, 08:51 AM
I ended up picking up a 7790 since I was going to get Bioshock Infinite. The $150 price tag for the OC edition was a bit high, but it gets me the $60 game I was going to get anyway, and the 7790 will be a decent upgrade over the 4770 currently sitting in my second system. I do love me some bundle deals.

hansmoleman8
03-27-2013, 09:15 AM
Cost to manufacture. Taking into account the narrower bus and the smaller die, expect that Bonaire can be sold for quite a bit less than 650 Ti Boost can while still making a profit. The launch price of Bonaire is frankly just a bit high. However, looking at the specs, mainly the 160mm≤ die and the 128-bit bus, the card should cost about the same to make as 5770 did, and that sold for around $100 for most of it's life.

I expect the pricing on Bonaire to fall to a level where 650Ti can't reach it, and then sell a lot.

Bonaire is still not a 75 W card. It needs 6pin PCIE power. Unless they start selling it for $129, there is no reason to not get a $149 1GB 650 Ti Boost. Unless you want Bioshock Infinite of course.

And Bonaire is new custom silicon, not a binned part.

parvadomus
03-27-2013, 09:35 AM
Relevant ... because? People on this forum run multiple boxes with kilowatts of power...

You dont get it.. but performance wise, 650TI goes vs 7790, and 650TI boost vs 7850. Boths vs cards that are on smaller dies, OCs better, and are more efficient. All AMD has to do is to lower their prices and bye bye Nvidia.

philipma1957
03-27-2013, 10:37 AM
Annnd Bonaire is now irrelevant.

$149 GTX 650 Ti Boost is to Bonaire what GTX 670 was to Tahiti. NVidia totally embarrassed AMD.

The 650 Ti Boost has more raw performance capability than the 12 month old, stable, Pitcairn (7850). It doesn't even make sense on paper. 192 bit memory bus, fewer shaders, fewer ROPs

price of a hd7790 is 0 usd via bitcoin. just use a calculator to see what I mean.

https://bitclockers.com/calc

so using prices as part your argument is foolish. now if you want to say the nvidia 650 ti boost plays games better that is okay.

it 10 days you would earn 13 bucks.

that is using 250 hash rate

16 cents for a k-watt of power

86 usd for a bitcoin.

I started with 7 mill difficulty and a 20% increase rate


in 30 days you would earn 39 dollars brings price to 110 down from 150. plus you get a game with it.

in 60 days you get back 70 dollars brings price to 80 down from 150.

in 90 days you get back 94 dollars brings price to 56 down from 150.

blastingcap
03-27-2013, 10:41 AM
Calculators that assume constant difficulty? Lol, difficulty is skyrocketing and there is no guarantee prices will follow suit, in fact, the bubble may burst.

Erenhardt
03-27-2013, 12:15 PM
All AMD has to do is to lower their prices and bye bye Nvidia.
And that is what we are waiting for. But so far we see no action from AMD.

Rvenger
03-27-2013, 03:50 PM
7790 needs to be at $120 and push the 7750 down to $60 and the 7770 to $80-90.

philipma1957
03-27-2013, 06:25 PM
Calculators that assume constant difficulty? Lol, difficulty is skyrocketing and there is no guarantee prices will follow suit, in fact, the bubble may burst.

MY CALC link Has 20% a month built in to it. you can pick more if you want.
so 7,000,000 first 0 to 30 days
8,400,000 30 to 60 days
10,080,000 60 to 90 days.

the card will cost less then 60 bucks after 90 days. so using price against a close nvidia card will make a nvidia lose. Some time soon maybe july or august this will not be true. and then you can use price against amd cards.

lagokc
03-30-2013, 05:21 AM
7790 needs to be at $120 and push the 7750 down to $60 and the 7770 to $80-90.

That would be nice, I'm just now starting to feel like the 4830 I bought some time ago for $85 isn't good enough any more.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125454 (http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProd uct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16814125454&user=u00000687)

It appears that 2GB 7790s are already available but at $170 they only seem like a good deal if you were about to spend $60 on Bioshock Infinite anyway.

Actually... $110 for a 2GB 7790... hmm...

Arkadrel
03-30-2013, 07:17 AM
I ended up picking up a 7790 since I was going to get Bioshock Infinite. The $150 price tag for the OC edition was a bit high, but it gets me the $60 game I was going to get anyway, and the 7790 will be a decent upgrade over the 4770 currently sitting in my second system. I do love me some bundle deals.


Not bad :)

Like a 90$ upgrade then.
Thats what? around 225% performance of the 4770?

The "bad" news is your 7790 uses on avg. about 6watts (while gameing)
more than your 4770 did :P

relax tho, the idle power is much much lower:
4770 = 32watts idleing
7790 = 7watts idleing

For most people there pc's probably arnt gameing most of the time their on anyways,
so its where it matters the most.

f1sherman
03-30-2013, 01:36 PM
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/launch-analyse-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost


Nvidia really stuck it to AMD this round.
Nah... J/K, because excellent game bundless / Tomb Raider, Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite - all 3 must haves, should keep AMD afloat.

At least in theory...:hmm:

Arkadrel
03-30-2013, 01:53 PM
What is your point f1sherman?

backhanded insults to a card, sarcasm, implying AMD is going under.

+

1 link that shows something everyone knows (and in german lol),
the 650Ti Boost is about 20% faster than the stock 7790.

It ll probably end up costing 20% more, and the performance/$ will be the same for both cards.
So the consumer wont end up hurt, reguardless of how many "free" games come with in in a game bundle or not.


The 650 Ti Boost is 221mm^2 chip, that uses ~60% more power than a 7790.
The 7790 is a 160mm^2 chip, thats more power effecient.

Its normal when you make a big chip, that uses more power,
that its faster than a smaller one, that uses alot less.

f1sherman
03-30-2013, 02:05 PM
gf please ;) cherry-picking is not how I roll

"1 link" (http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/launch-analyse-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost/launch-analyse-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boos) is actually an aggregate done from data gathered by 5 highly respectable websites:
Techpowerup, PCGH, hardware.fr , Heise, HT4U

Arkadrel
03-30-2013, 02:25 PM
I know that f1sherman, I read it and the 2nd page of it too.
Also I didnt accuse of you cherry picking (if you read it like that, sorry thats my bad).

It still doesnt change anything.
Most people by now know the 650ti boost is about 20% faster.

What was the point of your post?
And why the "hate" ?

svenge
03-30-2013, 03:26 PM
It ll probably end up costing 20% more, and the performance/$ will be the same for both cards.

Both the 7790 and 650 Ti Boost have the same MSRP: $150 for reference-clocked 1GB versions, and $170 for reference-clocked 2GB versions. As such, the 7790 is markedly inferior in all respects except for power consumption.

Arkadrel
03-30-2013, 04:22 PM
Both the 7790 and 650 Ti Boost have the same MSRP: $150 for reference-clocked 1GB versions, and $170 for reference-clocked 2GB versions. As such, the 7790 is markedly inferior in all respects except for power consumption.


I just checked newegg.

1) cheapest 650 TI boost = 169$ (2gb) (NO 1GB models there)
2) cheapest 7790 = 149$

Thats like a 13-14% price differnce, while the performance differnce is like 20%.

This means the 650 ti Boost, has a small price/performance advantage.


Where do you find 150$ 650 Ti boost ?

notty22
03-30-2013, 04:30 PM
I just checked newegg.

1) cheapest 650 TI boost = 169$ (2gb) (NO 1GB models there)
2) cheapest 7790 = 149$

Thats like a 13-14% price differnce, while the performance differnce is like 20%.

This means the 650 ti Boost, has a small price/performance advantage.


Where do you find 150$ 650 Ti boost ?
And the cheapest 7790 you are using as a comparison is a 1gb, against 2gb cards. The card is a AMD new die 'refresh' , over a year after the first GCN gpu's @28nm , and offers little to no extra performance.

Arachnotronic
03-30-2013, 04:32 PM
Both the 7790 and 650 Ti Boost have the same MSRP: $150 for reference-clocked 1GB versions, and $170 for reference-clocked 2GB versions. As such, the 7790 is markedly inferior in all respects except for power consumption.

Some people dig lower power consumption. Is Bonaire better on perf/watt? Edit: it appears so!

Arachnotronic
03-30-2013, 04:33 PM
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/launch-analyse-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost


Nvidia really stuck it to AMD this round.
Nah... J/K, because excellent game bundless / Tomb Raider, Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite - all 3 must haves, should keep AMD afloat.

At least in theory...:hmm:

These bundles are a very good idea, but I wonder how much it eats into AMD's margins on the cards.

Arkadrel
03-30-2013, 04:43 PM
And the cheapest 7790 you are using as a comparison is a 1gb, against 2gb cards. The card is a AMD new die 'refresh' , over a year after the first GCN gpu's @28nm , and offers little to no extra performance.

Thats because the only reveiws ive read, where from techpowerup.com

They all use the 1 GB models (for the 7790's).
The 650 TI boost (2 GB), beats the 1 GB models (7790) by about 20%.

Why is it unfair to compair price vs price, if you factor in performance?


Some people dig lower power consumption. Is Bonaire better on perf/watt? For Crysis 2 benchmark:

"650 TI boost" uses about 105watts (on avg).
"7790" uses about 69watts (on avg).

So yes even if you account for the 20% perf. differnce, the perf/watt is higher on the 7790.

Still that doesnt matter.

All that matters is the 7790 can be bought for 149$,
and you cant find a 650 TI Boost for under 169$.

3DVagabond
03-30-2013, 08:21 PM
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/launch-analyse-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost


Nvidia really stuck it to AMD this round.
Nah... J/K, because excellent game bundless / Tomb Raider, Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite - all 3 must haves, should keep AMD afloat.

At least in theory...:hmm:

So, after a year, they release a card that's better value than the 7850. A heavily underclocked card. All AMD has to do is release a GHz edition of the 7850 and it'll outperform the 650ti boost. With all of the room between the 7770 and 7870 there was no reason for the 7850 to crowd the performance of the 7870 too much. I would say that, with the release of the 650 ti boost, now there is. We'll see if they do anything. Or, maybe just rely on the O/C'ing prowess of the 7850? That would be a mistake, IMO.

Eureka
03-30-2013, 08:25 PM
So, after a year, they release a card that's better value than the 7850. A heavily underclocked card. All AMD has to do is release a GHz edition of the 7850 and it'll outperform the 650ti boost. With all of the room between the 7770 and 7870 there was no reason for the 7850 to crowd the performance of the 7870 too much. I would say that, with the release of the 650 ti boost, now there is. We'll see if they do anything. Or, maybe just rely on the O/C'ing prowess of the 7850? That would be a mistake, IMO.

There's already little room between the 7850 2gb ($180) and the 7870 ($200)...

Do we need a card at every $10 price point now?

3DVagabond
03-30-2013, 08:26 PM
Some people dig lower power consumption. Is Bonaire better on perf/watt? Edit: it appears so!

Bonaire's biggest attribute is it's efficiency. We'll hopefully see this continue on with the rest of AMD's refresh products.

3DVagabond
03-30-2013, 08:38 PM
There's already little room between the 7850 2gb ($180) and the 7870 ($200)...

Do we need a card at every $10 price point now?

Where did I say that?

Here's the situation. nVidia just came out with a new model that gives them a competitive advantage in the $170 price range. That's good for us. It should force AMD to sweeten the pot from their side as well. The simplest response would be to drop the price of the 7850 to match the 650 ti boost and up the clocks to give it a clear performance advantage. We know that the 650 ti boost doesn't have the legs to keep up with the 7850 if AMD doesn't hold back on the clocks so much.

Why, as consumers, wouldn't we welcome this. Instead of taking sides, we should embrace the competition and it's benefits to us. Instead people want one side to win. WTF do we get when one side wins? We get $550 Tahitis and $1000 Titans.

Imouto
03-30-2013, 08:47 PM
A HD 7850Ghz edition would be virtually tied with the HD 7870Ghz.

Jimzz
03-30-2013, 09:04 PM
These bundles are a very good idea, but I wonder how much it eats into AMD's margins on the cards.


Not to much I would think. The 7850's use to go for around $140-150ish AR. Now there are few rebates and most are in the $170ish+ range. So they got rid of most rebates and threw in a couple games. Win win for AMD IMO.

I got a 7870 Tahiti based card as the price difference was not enough lower to get a regular 7870 or 7850.

Eureka
03-30-2013, 09:15 PM
Where did I say that?

Here's the situation. nVidia just came out with a new model that gives them a competitive advantage in the $170 price range. That's good for us. It should force AMD to sweeten the pot from their side as well. The simplest response would be to drop the price of the 7850 to match the 650 ti boost and up the clocks to give it a clear performance advantage. We know that the 650 ti boost doesn't have the legs to keep up with the 7850 if AMD doesn't hold back on the clocks so much.

Why, as consumers, wouldn't we welcome this. Instead of taking sides, we should embrace the competition and it's benefits to us. Instead people want one side to win. WTF do we get when one side wins? We get $550 Tahitis and $1000 Titans.

Who's taking sides? I just think it's kind of ridiculous having another card to add to the line-up when it's already so close... you're the one talking about 7850 Ghz.

I wouldn't mind seeing the 7850 drop to the $150 price point, but the 1gb cards are already kind of there, with one popping up every few weeks or so AR.

Nvidia sorely needed this card as they had no stopgap between the relatively weak 650 Ti and the much better 660. But the 7850 and 7870 are so close that a 7850 Ghz doesn't really do anything besides cannibalize 7870 sales.

3DVagabond
03-30-2013, 09:34 PM
Who's taking sides? I just think it's kind of ridiculous having another card to add to the line-up when it's already so close... you're the one talking about 7850 Ghz.

I wouldn't mind seeing the 7850 drop to the $150 price point, but the 1gb cards are already kind of there, with one popping up every few weeks or so AR.

Nvidia sorely needed this card as they had no stopgap between the relatively weak 650 Ti and the much better 660. But the 7850 and 7870 are so close that a 7850 Ghz doesn't really do anything besides cannibalize 7870 sales.

7850 1gb are discontinued. No reason to make the 7850 cheaper than the 650 ti boost which are $170 and up. There are already 7850's running @ ~1GHz. Small price and clock adjustment is all that's required and the 7850 will be the better choice. Add the free games as a cherry on top. Certainly nothing to panic about and we consumers win.

Remember the 7850 was $250 and the best value because there was no competition. Good to see nVidia finally go head to head. If it reaches a point where there's no money to be made, then we'll see the new models, hopefully.