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View Full Version : SharkBite plumbing fittings are ridiculous


Doppel
02-23-2012, 05:22 PM
I'm a plumbing newb (like most reading this thread!) , but I saw these at Home Depot some time back and read up on them. http://www.sharkbiteplumbing.com/

Although they are not legal for sale in California or Vermont for some reason (the ones I got), the general consensus among professional plumbers is that although these are quite expensive they work as advertised (a few disagree, basically because worried about them but have no clear indication as why). I just used some for the first time on Pex (and the same one works on copper). Was just absurd. It simply pushes on. Then I put the water back on and no leaks. I know, that's what they're supposed to do, but it's unreal something that is literally just pushed on like this onto a smooth plastic like Pex should hold up for many years.

It's like Pex wasn't easy and quick enough so they had to make these. Lowes carries "GatorBite" versions...

Fern
02-23-2012, 05:27 PM
Thanks.

Good to know. I recently redid the plumbing in my ancient house with PEX. Actually a plumber did it. Been trying to figure out the best way to work on this stuff. I'll try the SharkBite stuff.

I love it when I finish a plumbing repair the first time and there's no leak.

Fern

Mojoed
02-23-2012, 05:31 PM
Yep, SharkBite fittings are definitely worth the price premium, especially if you're doing the work yourself.

One of those rare products that simply just freaking work with no strings attached.

edro
02-23-2012, 05:38 PM
What's also crazy is how loose they feel once attached.
You can freely spin them around the tubing as if it's not even connected.

I don't trust them though. (I guess I am getting old and not trusting technology)

Doppel
02-23-2012, 05:41 PM
What's also crazy is how loose they feel once attached.
You can freely spin them around the tubing as if it's not even connected.

I don't trust them though.I know! I saw them do that at Home Depot and figured they'd been worn out, but no mine spin easily, too. I wouldn't trust them if not for overwhelming support of them based on my searches online, simply because they really do seem too darn easy.

paperfist
02-23-2012, 05:44 PM
But do you really want your drinking water sitting in plastic all day? :P

janas19
02-23-2012, 05:45 PM
I had a friend I went on plumbing jobs with. All he used was SharkBites, basically.

Never had a problem with one so far. I guess it helps that plumbing follows material standards, so a SharkBite really only has to do one job, but it does it well.

Phoenix86
02-23-2012, 05:47 PM
But do you really want your drinking water sitting in plastic all day? :P
Great, we're basically using bottled water IN THE HOUSE. :P

NutBucket
02-23-2012, 05:47 PM
PEX is quickly becoming the norm for new construction because its CHEAP to install. The ridiculous price of copper helps too;)

GregGreen
02-23-2012, 08:05 PM
I had a friend I went on plumbing jobs with. All he used was SharkBites, basically.

Never had a problem with one so far. I guess it helps that plumbing follows material standards, so a SharkBite really only has to do one job, but it does it well.

Your plumber friend isn't doing his customers a great service by using SharkBites. Not even thinking about possible failure rates, the fittings cost 10-20 times as much as regular fittings (PEX or copper). If he's a professional, it shouldn't take him much longer to sweat on a copper fitting or attach a PEX ring than it does to use a SharkBite. There are instances where clearance is an issue where it's a good idea to use SharkBites, but that's about it.

Greenman
02-23-2012, 08:18 PM
They look like a good idea, but I won't use them. The reason is simply that they're new. New things often have major problems a few years down the road, I don't want to have to go back and re-plumb dozens of projects.
For copper, there is also a glue available, so you don't have to sweat fittings. It's pretty nifty stuff, but I won't use it either.

In the county where I live pex isn't allowed, the official reason is that rats chew through it.

Ns1
02-23-2012, 08:21 PM
the only reason I could find as to why they can't be sold in CA/VT

SharkBite Lead Free Fittings
As of January 1, 2010, changes to California and Vermont laws prohibit selling any pipe, fitting, or fixture that is intended to dispense or convey drinking water and that has a weighted average lead content of more than 0.25% based on a wetted surface area calculation.

zzuupp
02-23-2012, 08:26 PM
the only reason I could find as to why they can't be sold in CA/VT

For CA, it's certainly the lead law.

pcgeek11
02-23-2012, 08:29 PM
Press lock fittings are nothing new. We have been using them for at least 20 years in Industrial applications. It is just new for home users.

http://www.coleparmer.com/Category/Push_to_Connect_Fittings/51236?cls=51236&referred_id=1374&GCID=S18582x016&keyword=push+fittings&creative=7787588319&WT.srch=1&zjxj=0000355RQQP&mkwid=sPRc7sCV5&pcrid=7787588319&gclid=CMru7oO7ta4CFcGc7Qodyl8hyw

Modelworks
02-23-2012, 09:36 PM
PEX is quickly becoming the norm for new construction because its CHEAP to install. The ridiculous price of copper helps too;)


I wouldn't buy a house with it, had one and it was the worst experience ever. It is just a way to plumb cheap and fast with no concern for the long term. Copper cost but in the long run it can't be beat.

Red Squirrel
02-23-2012, 09:49 PM
For my first pex install I used Shark Bites. They are great for small projects where it's not worth buying the $200 crimper. Though for big jobs it's cheaper to buy the crimper and the regular fittings and rings. Then you have the crimper for next time and the fittings are way cheaper.

What's nice about pex is the overall lower chance of leak, as there are way less fittings and joints in a proper install that uses a main manifold. If I was to replumb from scratch that's what I'd do, just have two manifolds, one for hot and one for cold, and each "device" would have it's own individual run.

Exterous
02-23-2012, 10:28 PM
Thanks.

Good to know. I recently redid the plumbing in my ancient house with PEX. Actually a plumber did it. Been trying to figure out the best way to work on this stuff. I'll try the SharkBite stuff.

I love it when I finish a plumbing repair the first time and there's no leak.

Fern

Definately not a plumbing expert here but I would be a little cautious with them. When I got mine for some plumbing work I was doing one fitting leaked all over the place. I took it apart and the little gasket was out of place. While it was pretty easy to put back in place I see two problems with this.
1) Generally if its really easy to put back in place its probably also easy to slip out of place
2) It has a rubber gasket that will wear out

I just needed a simple T in my basement so I'm not too worried about it but its not something I would trust behind a wall

For my first pex install I used Shark Bites. They are great for small projects where it's not worth buying the $200 crimper. Though for big jobs it's cheaper to buy the crimper and the regular fittings and rings. Then you have the crimper for next time and the fittings are way cheaper.

Yeah - if we re-do the bathroom I'll definatly be investing in the crimpers instead of the sharkbite fittings

Eug
02-23-2012, 10:37 PM
I had pex put in by my contractor. Yeah, it's foolish to use Sharkbite everywhere, because it's extremely expensive for the fittings. You're much better off using traditional pex fittings. Much cheaper and work great.

He did use Sharkbite in the transition points from copper to pex. They are legal in-wall here, but nonetheless I asked him to make the main transition points in areas where I have physical access. So, they're in utility closets and behind a trap door.

BTW, because we used pex for the new plumbing, I had the electrician come in and re-bond all the existing copper water pipes and gas lines to earth. The gas lines had been bonded to the copper water pipes previously, but since there was intervening pex, the copper water pipes were no longer grounded.

As for GatorBite, they don't quite have the same reputation as SharkBite.

GregGreen
02-23-2012, 11:09 PM
He did use Sharkbite in the transition points from copper to pex. They are legal in-wall here, but nonetheless I asked him to make the main transition points in areas where I have physical access. So, they're in utility closets and behind a trap door.

I wouldn't have let that fly in my home -- he should have just been unlazy and broken out his torch and flux. They make fittings that can either sweat over top of copper pipe or sweat into a copper fitting and feature the PEX barb on the other end (you can get them as simple transitions, Ts, 90s, drop-eared, etc).

I wouldn't buy a house with it, had one and it was the worst experience ever. It is just a way to plumb cheap and fast with no concern for the long term. Copper cost but in the long run it can't be beat.

Cheap and fast isn't always a bad thing. Besides being cheap and fast, PEX also has the benefit of being less likely to burst if your water lines were to freeze. I'd put PEX in my house with no hesitation. I might go for PEX-A over PEX-B though (expansion versus crimp/cinch). I'd have my heating system done with HePEX too.

Doppel
02-23-2012, 11:13 PM
I wouldn't buy a house with it, had one and it was the worst experience ever. It is just a way to plumb cheap and fast with no concern for the long term. Copper cost but in the long run it can't be beat.What happened? I know a lot of professionals are moving to PEX. I enjoy reading about technologies that bite us in the ass, and that's happened for thousands of years, on topic however being sometime back I guess copper was being replaced with some plastic piping (I can't remember what) and causing some issues down the line, but it wasn't PEX. It's been in use in some capacity for decades. I have heard rats are more prone to eat it.

A lot of homes now are built with PEX. The contractor I had in recently owns many properties and a few years back had one undergoing renovation, but unlived in. Thieves relieved him one night of all of his copper (and finished walls) and he switched then to PEX.

EDIT: Think this was the bad stuff I was talking about: http://www.repipenews.com/

Eug
02-23-2012, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't have let that fly in my home -- he should have just been unlazy and broken out his torch and flux. They make fittings that can either sweat over top of copper pipe or sweat into a copper fitting and feature the PEX barb on the other end (you can get them as simple transitions, Ts, 90s, drop-eared, etc).
I had no problem with it, as they are fully code approved in Ontario, even for in-wall.

It's not as if he has an aversion to sweating copper by the way, as he broke out the torch for the pure copper connections of course.

DrPizza
02-24-2012, 12:09 AM
I wouldn't buy a house with it, had one and it was the worst experience ever. It is just a way to plumb cheap and fast with no concern for the long term. Copper cost but in the long run it can't be beat.

I'm not sure if it's changed or not, but Wirsbo Pex used to be warranted for life if installed by a certified installer.

I just happened to glance down at the price of copper pipe while I was shuffling through Home Depot (needed yet another 250 foot roll of copper wiring). The (10 foot sections of copper pipe; it was either 1/2" or 3/4", I just glanced, would have been over $20 including tax.

Sephire
02-24-2012, 12:27 AM
I bought mine from Home Depot in CA. Love how easy it is to install.

Tobolo
02-24-2012, 12:48 AM
Thanks.

Good to know. I recently redid the plumbing in my ancient house with PEX. Actually a plumber did it. Been trying to figure out the best way to work on this stuff. I'll try the SharkBite stuff.

I love it when I finish a plumbing repair the first time and there's no leak.

Fern

That is one of the best feelings in the world!

iGas
02-24-2012, 12:59 AM
Press lock fittings are nothing new. We have been using them for at least 20 years in Industrial applications. It is just new for home users.

http://www.coleparmer.com/Category/Push_to_Connect_Fittings/51236?cls=51236&referred_id=1374&GCID=S18582x016&keyword=push+fittings&creative=7787588319&WT.srch=1&zjxj=0000355RQQP&mkwid=sPRc7sCV5&pcrid=7787588319&gclid=CMru7oO7ta4CFcGc7Qodyl8hyw
Those fittings are rated for cold water usage only.

Sharkbite fittings are like any other press lock fittings that employed o-rings and water pressure to seal. However, if I recall correctly o-ring have life expectancy of 15 years or more pending the material used.

http://www.cashacme.com/_images/pdf_downloads/products/sharkbite/SB_Warranty.pdf


SharkBite®
1. PEX Tubing cross-linked polyethylene (non-barrier & barrier PEX) pipe for a period of twenty-five
(25) years from the date of manufacture.
2. SharkBite®
Push-Fit Fittings brass push fit fitting for a period of twenty-five (25) years from the date of
manufacture.
3. SharkBite®
Brass PEX Barbed-Fittings and SharkBite®
Copper PEX Manifolds for a period of sixty (60) months
from the date of manufacture.
4. All other valves and accessories sold under Cash Acme’s brand names of the SharkBite®
PEX and / or
SharkBite®
Connection System for a period of twenty-four (24) months from the date of manufacture.

iGas
02-24-2012, 01:03 AM
I'm not sure if it's changed or not, but Wirsbo Pex used to be warranted for life if installed by a certified installer.

I just happened to glance down at the price of copper pipe while I was shuffling through Home Depot (needed yet another 250 foot roll of copper wiring). The (10 foot sections of copper pipe; it was either 1/2" or 3/4", I just glanced, would have been over $20 including tax.
Wirsbo warranty is 5 years for fittings and manifold, 30 years for piping.

25 years for copper.

paperfist
02-24-2012, 01:35 AM
Wirsbo warranty is 5 years for fittings and manifold, 30 years for piping.

25 years for copper.

We all know that from past history copper pipe lasts for eons :) Pex is up in the air still.

Drako
02-24-2012, 01:42 AM
Yeh, I think I'll stick with copper. It lasts forever. :)

iGas
02-24-2012, 02:08 AM
We all know that from past history copper pipe lasts for eons :) Pex is up in the air still.
I agree, but most if not all type L copper pipe (potable water) manufacturers rated their piping for 25 years.

I'm not sure what the local plumbing codes are in every US cities, but here in Canada Wirsbo/PEX, & Sharkbite fittings are not approve to be use on government/city sites, industrial, commercial, or institutional. However, they are approve for residential and non potable applications.

pcgeek11
02-24-2012, 02:17 AM
I wouldn't buy a house with it, had one and it was the worst experience ever. It is just a way to plumb cheap and fast with no concern for the long term. Copper cost but in the long run it can't be beat.

Depends on the location. Search Copper Pinhole Leak Problems on google. It sucks. I had to have my entire house re-piped. Ripped out all the copper and went back in with CPVC.

pcgeek11
02-24-2012, 02:23 AM
Those fittings are rated for cold water usage only.



I was just saying that the technology isn't new... You have always been able to get them with different ratings...

iGas
02-24-2012, 02:36 AM
They look like a good idea, but I won't use them. The reason is simply that they're new. New things often have major problems a few years down the road, I don't want to have to go back and re-plumb dozens of projects.
For copper, there is also a glue available, so you don't have to sweat fittings. It's pretty nifty stuff, but I won't use it either.

In the county where I live pex isn't allowed, the official reason is that rats chew through it.

Rat chew through wiring and drainage piping (ABS/PVC/CVPC) as well and it is being use every where. IMHO, PEX hasn't been on the market for a long period with an unproven track record that is what cause the local licensing office to be cautious. The disastrous adoption of plastic piping (Poly-B) for potable water system during the 80s-90s make many local licensing office nervous.

iGas
02-24-2012, 02:47 AM
I wouldn't have let that fly in my home -- he should have just been unlazy and broken out his torch and flux. They make fittings that can either sweat over top of copper pipe or sweat into a copper fitting and feature the PEX barb on the other end (you can get them as simple transitions, Ts, 90s, drop-eared, etc).



Cheap and fast isn't always a bad thing. Besides being cheap and fast, PEX also has the benefit of being less likely to burst if your water lines were to freeze. I'd put PEX in my house with no hesitation. I might go for PEX-A over PEX-B though (expansion versus crimp/cinch). I'd have my heating system done with HePEX too.
Both PEX and copper will bust when freeze, because the material become rigid. There is no to little expansion when PEX experience extreme weather condition, while copper still expand a little to some degree. However, water expansion still is greater than the expansion/elasticity of PEX & copper in freezing temperature.

arcenite
02-24-2012, 06:55 AM
Both PEX and copper will bust when freeze, because the material become rigid. There is no to little expansion when PEX experience extreme weather condition, while copper still expand a little to some degree. However, water expansion still is greater than the expansion/elasticity of PEX & copper in freezing temperature.

Not to mention that any material contracts when it gets that cold

Doppel
02-24-2012, 07:36 AM
It is often held, though I don't know if true, that pex does indeed withstand freezing better. I think it's a bit of a moot point as if your pipes are under freezing conditions you're got a bad situation and it's never going to tolerate a lot of it.

Copper doesn't last forever, apparently the expected lifespan is in the vicinity of 50 years. It can be much more or less depending on conditions like what's in the water; seems to vary wildly. It seems some local waters chew through copper quicker than others. This is all just what I can google, though and all I find are threads of people posting their opinions and experiences. I assume some american council or something or other has a much better opinion on this.

SpatiallyAware
02-24-2012, 07:49 AM
IMO the routing and location is more important than the material as they all have their little issues. I would not buy a home with any pipe buried in a slab.



That being said, I've had the least amount of issues with cpvc.

CPA
02-24-2012, 08:33 AM
I'm remodeling my master bath right now (thank you mold and ants) and am moving my shower head from an interior wall to an exterior wall. the reroute of the pipes calls for a ninety degree bend. Went back and forth between copper and pex. Decided to stick with the copper because a 90 degree bend is not going to crimp with copper, I live in Houston so low risk of freezing pipes and I don't have to worry about copper/pex transition issues.

alent1234
02-24-2012, 08:36 AM
I'm a plumbing newb (like most reading this thread!) , but I saw these at Home Depot some time back and read up on them. http://www.sharkbiteplumbing.com/

Although they are not legal for sale in California or Vermont for some reason (the ones I got), the general consensus among professional plumbers is that although these are quite expensive they work as advertised (a few disagree, basically because worried about them but have no clear indication as why). I just used some for the first time on Pex (and the same one works on copper). Was just absurd. It simply pushes on. Then I put the water back on and no leaks. I know, that's what they're supposed to do, but it's unreal something that is literally just pushed on like this onto a smooth plastic like Pex should hold up for many years.

It's like Pex wasn't easy and quick enough so they had to make these. Lowes carries "GatorBite" versions...


seems like the reason you can't buy some of these in california is because some models contain lead

so if you ever have kids and they turn out to be retarts just look in the mirror for whose fault it is

Modelworks
02-24-2012, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't use Pex because it hasn't been in use long enough. Copper has its problems but I don't recall anyone getting health problems from it. Pex has really been increasing in installs because of its ease of use , but already you see things like this being reported. Read the comments about Shell, typical corporate talk when a product has issues but they want to keep selling it.

The PEX EIR found that methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE) and tert-Butyl alcohol can leach from PEX in amounts that exceed taste, odor and health guidelines set by the State of California for drinking water. The PEX EIR found that PEX pipes can initially leach as much as 290 ppb of MTBE.

The PEX EIR also found that PEX can leach ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE), a chemical in the same family as MTBE, in amounts exceeding 100 ppb. An expert toxicologist report commissioned as part of the PEX EIR found that the leaching of ETBE from PEX pipe could contribute to taste and odor impacts, and could potentially lead to adverse health effects.

The PEX EIR found that PEX pipe is susceptible to permeation by outside contaminants such as pesticides, oil, gasoline, benzene and termiticides.

Numerous studies and articles submitted to the State of California comparing potable water pipe materials, including variants of PEX, polybutylene, polypropylene, CPVC, copper and steel, have found that PEX displayed the strongest biofilm formation and the strongest initial promotion of the growth of Legionella bacteria.

According to Lubrizol Advanced Materials, Inc., polybutylene pipe passed ASTM F2023 and still failed miserably in U.S. water conditions.

In 2002, the Plastic Pipe and Fittings Association (PPFA) filed an unsuccessful lawsuit arguing that review of PEX pipe under CEQA was unlawful. The Court of Appeal denied the PPFA claim and held that substantial evidence of potential drinking water contamination through chemical leaching and permeation, as well as evidence of mechanical performance problems and failures, required that PEX pipe undergo CEQA review prior to state approval.

Shell was sued across the nation, as well as in San Diego, where class-action lawsuits were filed on behalf of 60,000 homeowners with failing PB pipe. Shell withdrew the product from the marketplace and stopped all manufacture of the pipe. It is estimated that more than one million American homes may eventually suffer problems with PB failures.

Shell ultimately agreed to a one billion dollar settlement of the claims. Furthermore, Leonardini won a five million dollar judgment against Shell for malicious prosecution of the trade libel claim. According to the Court of Appeal decision, “Shell's policy was that if the state did not discover any health problems with the system on its own and did not specifically ask for that information, Shell would not volunteer it.” (Leonardini v. Shell Oil Co. (1989) 216 Cal.App.3d 547.)

the DRIZZLE
02-24-2012, 09:53 AM
If I was doing a big job I'd invest in some pro-press gear. IMO it gives you the best of both worlds between traditional copper and sharkbite.

paperfist
02-24-2012, 11:46 AM
I'm remodeling my master bath right now (thank you mold and ants) and am moving my shower head from an interior wall to an exterior wall. the reroute of the pipes calls for a ninety degree bend. Went back and forth between copper and pex. Decided to stick with the copper because a 90 degree bend is not going to crimp with copper, I live in Houston so low risk of freezing pipes and I don't have to worry about copper/pex transition issues.

Not sure of the code their, but you generally aren't allowed to plumb on an outside wall due to the mentioned freezing potential. With the crazy weather patterns emerging year after year I would rethink putting the line there.

I agree, but most if not all type L copper pipe (potable water) manufacturers rated their piping for 25 years.

I'm not sure what the local plumbing codes are in every US cities, but here in Canada Wirsbo/PEX, & Sharkbite fittings are not approve to be use on government/city sites, industrial, commercial, or institutional. However, they are approve for residential and non potable applications.

I'm really curious to know how Pex is going to hold up in under floor installations where it's used to heat. I'd love to use it in that application when I ever get around to building a house, but having to set that stuff up in a bed of concrete is scary when you think at some point it's going to fail and need to all be redone.

DrPizza
02-24-2012, 12:07 PM
If I was doing a big job I'd invest in some pro-press gear. IMO it gives you the best of both worlds between traditional copper and sharkbite.

I agree that for anything other than trivial sized repairs that getting a set of tools would be preferable (at least to me anyway.) Avoiding the sharkbite fittings will save money for medium to larger jobs, without really affecting the installation time. At a glance from pex supply, a 1/2 inch coupling is 57 cents. Crimp rings are about 25 cents. Compare that to home depots 1/2 inch sharkbite coupling at $7.19. That's over $6 saved just for one connection. Doesn't take a lot of connections before you've saved enough money to purchase the tools outright. Not to mention just rent the tools for a couple of hours. (I chose the 1/2 coupling because it was the first fitting that came up in the list of fittings; I can't think of a reason I'd ever need a simple coupling with pex.

Igas - yep, I see that the warranty is 25 years on the tubing now. I wonder if it's always been that way (and my bro-in-law was wrong) or if they changed it after it started gaining a lot wider acceptance. We replaced all of the plumbing in our house the day after we closed (because the idiots at the bank shut off the heat, which probably cost them a few 10's of 1000's of dollars as a result of it sitting on the market forever because (almost) no one (I succeeded; multiple people failed before me though) could get a loan for a house without plumbing and without a heating system (hot water baseboard was ruined as well.) Bro in law supplied the tools and half the labor. He was a certified installer, and I'm pretty sure he said that it was a lifetime thing, though that didn't apply to me since installation cost me a couple six packs of beer.

amdskip
02-24-2012, 12:33 PM
Depends on the location. Search Copper Pinhole Leak Problems on google. It sucks. I had to have my entire house re-piped. Ripped out all the copper and went back in with CPVC.Happens here too, cpvc throughout my house.

I redid another house a few weeks ago with pex. Pics for your enjoyment:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387566_10100483274855340_22903762_52164764_1398417 748_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/387566_10100483274880290_22903762_52164765_7313528 74_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/396550_10100495594366940_22903762_52211191_1194876 053_n.jpg

And what happens when the old fixtures cannot handle all the new water pressure:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396550_10100495594401870_22903762_52211193_4203548 6_n.jpg

This was my first full pex install and I learned a lot. I used wirsbo pex A tubing with a manual expansion tool ($280 ouch but oh so nice).

CPA
02-24-2012, 12:37 PM
Not sure of the code their, but you generally aren't allowed to plumb on an outside wall due to the mentioned freezing potential. With the crazy weather patterns emerging year after year I would rethink putting the line there.



I'm really curious to know how Pex is going to hold up in under floor installations where it's used to heat. I'd love to use it in that application when I ever get around to building a house, but having to set that stuff up in a bed of concrete is scary when you think at some point it's going to fail and need to all be redone.

I live in a county with no permitting required. Plus, the plumbing to the bathtub came down the same exterior wall.

iGas
02-24-2012, 09:09 PM
Not sure of the code their, but you generally aren't allowed to plumb on an outside wall due to the mentioned freezing potential. With the crazy weather patterns emerging year after year I would rethink putting the line there.



I'm really curious to know how Pex is going to hold up in under floor installations where it's used to heat. I'd love to use it in that application when I ever get around to building a house, but having to set that stuff up in a bed of concrete is scary when you think at some point it's going to fail and need to all be redone.
PEX-AL and hePEX has been around for a while and both proved that it can certainly handle being embedded in concrete.

Doppel
02-24-2012, 09:23 PM
so if you ever have kids and they turn out to be retarts just look in the mirror for whose fault it isis "retart" how retards spell?

Btw you can make a 90 degree with PEX as there are Fittings just for that. The idea that a seamless run from manifold to outlet can be made is nice but certainly not always realistic.

Red Squirrel
02-24-2012, 09:37 PM
wait, cpvc can be used for water supply? I did not know that. I never worked with it myself, but it does look fairly easy to work with, and no expensive tools required. I would imagine it's quite strong too? Though, I don't know if I'd want to rely on a glue connection for high pressure application, then again, pvc glue causes a "fuse" reaction so it's more than just glue.

boomhower
02-24-2012, 09:44 PM
Lowes come out a couple days ago to put the washing machine in my new house, low and behold the hot water valve was bent to a 90 angle. Evidently the old hose was coroded on and whoever tried to get it off bent the valve. Called a coworker who does plumbing on the side. An hour later he came over, took a look, ran to the parts store, and came back with a sharkbite. 10 minutes later he had it all hooked up. He only charged me $30 parts/labor. Regular plumber probably would have been $100 just to show up.

paperfist
02-24-2012, 10:19 PM
wait, cpvc can be used for water supply? I did not know that. I never worked with it myself, but it does look fairly easy to work with, and no expensive tools required. I would imagine it's quite strong too? Though, I don't know if I'd want to rely on a glue connection for high pressure application, then again, pvc glue causes a "fuse" reaction so it's more than just glue.

In NY as far as I know its only allowed in trailers. In the city it can't handle the up to 80 PSI you find in some homes.

GregGreen
02-27-2012, 10:21 PM
I agree that for anything other than trivial sized repairs that getting a set of tools would be preferable (at least to me anyway.) Avoiding the sharkbite fittings will save money for medium to larger jobs, without really affecting the installation time. At a glance from pex supply, a 1/2 inch coupling is 57 cents. Crimp rings are about 25 cents. Compare that to home depots 1/2 inch sharkbite coupling at $7.19. That's over $6 saved just for one connection. Doesn't take a lot of connections before you've saved enough money to purchase the tools outright. Not to mention just rent the tools for a couple of hours. (I chose the 1/2 coupling because it was the first fitting that came up in the list of fittings; I can't think of a reason I'd ever need a simple coupling with pex.

Igas - yep, I see that the warranty is 25 years on the tubing now. I wonder if it's always been that way (and my bro-in-law was wrong) or if they changed it after it started gaining a lot wider acceptance. We replaced all of the plumbing in our house the day after we closed (because the idiots at the bank shut off the heat, which probably cost them a few 10's of 1000's of dollars as a result of it sitting on the market forever because (almost) no one (I succeeded; multiple people failed before me though) could get a loan for a house without plumbing and without a heating system (hot water baseboard was ruined as well.) Bro in law supplied the tools and half the labor. He was a certified installer, and I'm pretty sure he said that it was a lifetime thing, though that didn't apply to me since installation cost me a couple six packs of beer.

I think he was referring to something like the Ridgid ProPress system which uses a tool like http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/RP210B-Press-Tool and fittings like http://s3.pexsupply.com/images/products/zoom/78072-1.jpg. I'm pretty sure there are some other manufacturers out there too with similar (and not always compatible) product. You don't see many of those tools except amongst the plumbers/HVAC guys who do a lot of jobs -- often the same people that would have a Wirsbo expansion tool. I know some places will rent you a tool for the ProPress, but the fittings aren't cheap either.

I also thought that the Wirsbo/Uponor Pex had a lifetime warranty, so I looked it up. It is a lifetime warranty, but lifetime is defined as 25 years.

"This limited warranty shall expire, from the date of installation, in twenty-five (25) years for Wirsbo hePEXTM, Wirsbo hePEXTMplus, Wirsbo AQUAPEX® and Wirsbo MultiCorTM tubing; and shall expire in eighteen (18) months for fittings, manifolds, electrical parts and staplers.

Red Squirrel
02-27-2012, 11:21 PM
In NY as far as I know its only allowed in trailers. In the city it can't handle the up to 80 PSI you find in some homes.

Oh so it's for low pressure systems only? Yeah would not be allowed here either then. The pressure is over 100 PSI here. From what someone told me my area is around 130. Would be cool to install a gauge some day just for fun.

lomah
02-25-2013, 03:48 PM
We all know that from past history copper pipe lasts for eons :) Pex is up in the air still.
Yeh, I think I'll stick with copper. It lasts forever. :)

BS on these statements...
I have hard well water and 50 year old pipes...been patching and replacing pipe for years due to pin hole leaks...going with pex

waggy
02-25-2013, 03:59 PM
wtf necro!

i was like wtf..this thread seems familiar. Then looked at the YEAR.

bignateyk
02-25-2013, 04:00 PM
I use them all the time. Not sure why they would be illegal? I've used probably 50-75 of them in my remodels.

KB
02-25-2013, 04:19 PM
I used them for a small repair and still check them weekly. I still can't believe they haven't leaked. They were so easy to install. I wil see how my well water treats the O rings as I have all sorts of treatments for the water.

Doppel
02-25-2013, 04:22 PM
Nice necro :)

The two I installed a year back are still going and I long since forgot on even checking them anymore.

Fritzo
02-25-2013, 04:26 PM
WTF- I've never seen these. I guess compression rings weren't simple enough?

bignateyk
02-25-2013, 04:31 PM
I used them for a small repair and still check them weekly. I still can't believe they haven't leaked. They were so easy to install. I wil see how my well water treats the O rings as I have all sorts of treatments for the water.

I'd be more worried about your body than the O-Ring if it's that bad.

SphinxnihpS
02-25-2013, 05:11 PM
Thanks.

Good to know. I recently redid the plumbing in my ancient house with PEX. Actually a plumber did it. Been trying to figure out the best way to work on this stuff. I'll try the SharkBite stuff.

I love it when I finish a plumbing repair the first time and there's no leak.

Fern

Me too. But I especially love that there won't be one in 50 years either.

Bellabrat
07-26-2013, 12:35 AM
OMG! I just need to say THANK YOU to each and every one of you on this thread! My outside spigot literally came off and the pipe was right at the stucco line of the house. I was able to go to Home Depot with mah boyfriend and get a Sharkbite, saw (had to saw off the old soldered fitting), sand paper and new spigot. Within a half hour (and maybe 2 beers...tehe) we have a brand new faucet outside! You have saved me hundreds of dollars here and I can't thank you enough! Drinks all around!!! ps. I am in California and they do have lead free Sharkbites :)

Eug
07-26-2013, 01:19 AM
Double necro thread revival. :P

And yeah, none of my Sharkbites for the basement reno (all visible) have leaked. I just got the same contractor back recently for a shower install. He used mainly copper, but did use a couple of Sharkbites behind the wall. I said OK.

He says he's never had one leak in the decade he's been using them, and they're rated for 25 years. Mind you, that would suck if 30 years later they leaked behind a wall. But then again, people have had more problems with pex fittings, judging by the forums.

LArry Wayne
07-06-2014, 06:46 PM
I have been using press on fittings for years.
They're new to home owners.
NEVER have had a failure yet.
If they leak you better check and see if your copper pipe is CLEAN and cut even.
I have had many more leaks from poor soldering by "PROFESSIONAL" plumbers.
The guys who complain its not a traditional plumbing method are just mad they're losing business to smart home owners.
NOTHING is 100% but I will tell you, in 15 years I have had NO issues with sharkbite fittings, NOR any fires from a torch, or sloppy soldering.

Phoenix86
07-06-2014, 06:48 PM
Double necro thread revival. :P

And yeah, none of my Sharkbites for the basement reno (all visible) have leaked. I just got the same contractor back recently for a shower install. He used mainly copper, but did use a couple of Sharkbites behind the wall. I said OK.

He says he's never had one leak in the decade he's been using them, and they're rated for 25 years. Mind you, that would suck if 30 years later they leaked behind a wall. But then again, people have had more problems with pex fittings, judging by the forums.
Now triple.

WE GET IT SHARKBITE.

Red Squirrel
07-06-2014, 06:56 PM
I have a few sharkbites around the house, some have been around for 5 years. No leaks yet. :P

I also used a sharkbite to transition from CPVC to copper for connecting my humidifier drain to the existing furnace drain line. I don't think there's any other way to make that conversion, kinda an oddball situation you would normally not do every day. I could have used CPVC for the humidifier drain but I wanted to be fancy and used 3/4" copper. :P Did not want to use copper for the actual furnace drain though due to the corrosive water that comes out.

KK
07-06-2014, 07:24 PM
the one shark bite i put on leaked, but that was my fault, taking the old cheap shark-bite type cutoff valve left a few nicks in the cpvc. I didn't cut the pipe back as I wanted to try it without cutting off any of the pipe coming out of the wall. It started leaking so i removed the sharkbite and cut about 3/8" of pipe off and put the sharkbite back on and it hasn't leaked yet.