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ingeborgdot
02-26-2010, 12:37 AM
I just got a new NAS and am backing up my computer. I just wanted to know how long a 10Gb transfer should take over the network? I know there are many variables but am just curious as to how long you believe it should take. I have GB network but that I know has nothing to do with a NAS.

Fardringle
02-26-2010, 02:51 AM
As you said, there are many variables, and we can't do much more than guess. Quite often the speed of the NAS will be the limiting factor, particularly if it is an inexpensive device.

Theoretically, a gigabit network could transfer 1 GB of data in about 8 seconds. Realistically, with fast drives on both ends of the transfer, 30-40 seconds seems reasonable.

In my case, it takes just about 2 minutes to transfer a 1 GB file on my non-Gigabit network...

Emulex
02-26-2010, 06:26 AM
smb kinda stinks for gigabit. if you use ftp/nfs/iscsi you will see much higher utilization. iirc i was able to push full gigabit with nfs all day long. The nas had 12 500gb sata drives in it; 10 in raid-5

yinan
02-26-2010, 08:26 AM
It should take less than one minute.

ingeborgdot
02-26-2010, 10:04 AM
patriot pcnasvk35s2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822219003 (http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?user=u00000687&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduc ...82E16822219003)
It is connected directly to Ethernet 1GB switch. Nothing is wireless in the connection. It all goes through an AT&T router/modem from 2wire a 1702HG Gateway.

I have two WD caviar green hdd. 1TB and 1.5TB, one with 64GB cache and the other 32GB cache.

If this is all the faster this will go 10GB took 15 minutes I want something faster.

bwanaaa
02-26-2010, 10:43 AM
What is going on if iperf gives 500 Mbits/sec(~65MB/s) but a drag and drop of an 8 gig file gives only 2 MBs/s?

JackMDS
02-26-2010, 12:31 PM
Fast 100MB/sec. yields a transfer around 10MB/sec.

10 GB file should take 10000MB /10MB/sec. = 1000 sec. I.e., 17 min.

Most working Giga on home peer-to-peer Network, out of the box yield transfer around 30MB/sec.

10000MB / 30 MB/sec. = 333 Sec. I.e., 6 to 7 Min.

Well optimized Giga Home network can yield around 60 MB/sec.

I.e., it should take about 3 Min to transfer 10GB file.

The above is approximate data to serve as a simple example so that how End-User can evaluate their Home network.

.

ingeborgdot
02-26-2010, 12:57 PM
How can I optimize? I just checked and even going into my computer on the same network that was even a little slower.

JackMDS
02-26-2010, 01:14 PM
Try this.


Download TCPOptimizer, http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php

Optimize each computers' TCP/IP according to the Internet connection and double the RCWin.

http://www.ezlan.net/network/TCPoptimize.jpg


The optimization works when there is a basic Giga traffic.

I.e., if One gets only 20 - 30 MB/sec. it will boost the "Speed".

If the basic Traffic is Not Giga it usually some sort of Hardware issue and it has to be dealt with first.

.

ingeborgdot
02-26-2010, 03:27 PM
I tried it but nothing changed.

drebo
02-26-2010, 03:47 PM
You're more than likely hitting the limit of what the NAS can handle. To be honest, 15 minutes for 10GB of data to a SOHO NAS isn't terrible. SOHO NAS boxes are some of the worst performing network items available. Sorry, but it's probably never going to be faster, unless you take the drives out and put them directly in your computer.

ingeborgdot
02-27-2010, 03:49 AM
At this point I know it is not the NAS but something that is screwed up. I did get the Gbps to finally start working again but I can't send anything from my Vista comp. to my Xp computer. I can send from XP to vista though. It just won't run. The other day it was around 90 or so MB/sec from C to C. I did get the NAS up to around 20 MB/sec. I can find all my pieces to the network but when I go to send it just can't do it.

ingeborgdot
02-27-2010, 10:18 PM
I have found part of a culprit. My new Avast free stops all downloads to the my other network computer. I shut it off and my download works. I turn it on and it stops it. What settings do I need to change on it because I really like the new Avast.

MrColin
03-01-2010, 01:36 AM
A common bottleneck is the cpu on the NAS when using smb. Less cpu intensive protocols like ftp or nfs will be faster in those cases. I'm not familiar with avast, but if I had to guess, it may be bogged down trying to scan the incoming packets and holding up your downloads. It's not really clear what is going on from your posts.

ingeborgdot
03-01-2010, 02:52 PM
I uninstalled Avast on that machine and it works fine now.

I have changed my mind. I will pay over $400 if need be to get a NAS that has some fast speed. Does the HP EX490 have fast file transfer speed? I don't know what the heck to do. I look at one article and it says a machine is fast the other says not. Would anyone be able to give me a good recommendation for a prebuilt one?

drebo
03-01-2010, 03:00 PM
The HP EX490 is a WHS system, so it's an actual computer with an actual operating system. It will be faster than your current NAS box. Whether it will do what you want it to do (or what you think it should do) depends on many more things than you have told us.

ingeborgdot
03-01-2010, 09:30 PM
What kind of info do would you want?

ingeborgdot
03-02-2010, 01:59 AM
The main purpose is to backup data in a central location for all my computers.

ingeborgdot
03-02-2010, 10:13 AM
I will be using this for mainly backup purposes but along down the road maybe things will change but for now backup and a lot of it. Is Raid 1 an important issue or raid 5 or 10? If so I probably need to look for a 4 bay unit but for now I have decided a 2 bay should suffice which would allow me to raid 1 if all believe it is important.

I have these 3 that I have narrowed it down to.

Seagate Blackarmor 220

Iomega StorCenter ix2-200


Synology ds209+, no not the 209 or 209+II but the 209+ I have a chance for some that remain.

All of these are about the same price. Different tests show each at around the same speed. All are rated good.
What is your take on these? Thanks for your help.

ingeborgdot
03-02-2010, 03:02 PM
Also, what about the QNAP TS-219P and the Thecus N3200? Does anyone know anything about any of these NAS machines?

ingeborgdot
03-08-2010, 12:40 PM
As I continue to test the network speed I am truly baffled. My local area connection shows 1.0Gbps. The computer on the other end shows the same but when I go to download to the other computer I get speeds between 16-20 MB/s. I know there are many variables but holy cow. What can I do?

My problem is still that there seems to be a problem between my one computer running vista 64bit and windows xp pro on the other one. I have enabled jumbo frames and nothing changes. The computer is an AMD quad core computer 4400+. That should be able to handle what I was feeding it. I changed hdd and that did not make a difference except to give me my needed space for the computer I was needing. The gig lan is a built in lan to the mobod of the computer. I don't have a NAS yet as I tried one but it was not very good.

Would buying a pci lan card be the way to go for this computer as I will use it for alternative backups etc.

Could a new nic card in each computer maybe make a difference? The cards would be exactly the same. The one mobod is around 6 years old the other maybe 4. The lan that I have are on the mobod. Just a thought.

JackMDS
03-08-2010, 01:31 PM
Which Giga Switch re you using,

Did you try to take two computers with Giga off the network and see how much you get when connecting them directly?


.

ingeborgdot
03-08-2010, 03:26 PM
Trendnet TEG-S5 and DGS 2208. Both had decent reviews.

No, I have not taken them of the network and tried this. How would I go about with the connections? Would I not need a crossover cable?

I have read many good things about this nic
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106121 (http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?user=u00000687&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduc t.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16833106121)
The only problem is that is has no software. Will that matter? What can I do? Thanks.

JackMDS
03-08-2010, 03:37 PM
Nope you do not need crossover. Giga NICs' are MDX by standard. I.e. they adapt to the type of the connection.

.

ingeborgdot
03-08-2010, 03:44 PM
I meant for the connection where take and connect the two computers together to check.

This is what someone told me in another forum. What is true about this?

For 1Gbit LAN to work, you'll need GBLan adapters and cables (yes, these are different than
"Normal" CAT-5 cables) in all devices on your network, including switches & routers.

I did not think routers would affect it after it is hooked up to the switch.

My network goes like this. Internet in to a 2wire modem/router-----gig switch-----computer-- also from the gig switch------ to another switch in another room------ to another computer, bluray, denon 3808CI, NAS(soon).

imagoon
03-08-2010, 04:47 PM
I meant for the connection where take and connect the two computers together to check.

This is what someone told me in another forum. What is true about this?

For 1Gbit LAN to work, you'll need GBLan adapters and cables (yes, these are different than
"Normal" CAT-5 cables) in all devices on your network, including switches & routers.

I did not think routers would affect it after it is hooked up to the switch.

My network goes like this. Internet in to a 2wire modem/router-----gig switch-----computer-- also from the gig switch------ to another switch in another room------ to another computer, bluray, denon 3808CI, NAS(soon).

Cat5 is rated for gigabit. There are Cat5e, Cat6 etc but for a simple patch to check, Cat5 is fine. The key to check is if all 8 wires are terminated. Some cheaper 'Cat 5' (which isn't spec) drops 2 of the pairs and connects only 2 pairs effectively forcing that cable to 100mbps only.

Auto MDX should handle the crossover needs on the 1gig nics. Ones that don't AutoMDX have become pretty rare.

When it comes to the network, you need 1GB hardware but not all devices need to be 1 Gig unless you have one of the super junk switches that drops to 100mbps if a single 100mbps device is attached.

Jumbo frames is different. All devices need to support what ever frame size you pick. The gain for Jumbo frames is pretty minimal except in situations where TCP/IP overhead becomes an issue. With home hardware, I really doubt that you are having that issue.

Your network design looks 'typical.' It can be better to pull drops back to a single switch but in most cases it won't matter much.

ingeborgdot
03-09-2010, 09:15 AM
Would it be better to get pci or pci express nic cards? Or would it make a difference?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106122 (http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?user=u00000687&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduc t.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16833106122)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106036 (http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?user=u00000687&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduc t.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16833106036)

Will there be a difference?

imagoon
03-09-2010, 10:19 AM
Would it be better to get pci or pci express nic cards? Or would it make a difference?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106122 (http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?user=u00000687&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduc t.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16833106122)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106036 (http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?user=u00000687&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduc t.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16833106036)

Will there be a difference?

In theory PCI-E > PCI but that is less and less so as most devices are not on the PCI bus anymore. PCI theoretically hits 133 MB/s, Gig Ethernet theoretically hits 125MB/s. Those numbers are not reality though. Since video and south bridge etc are not on the PCI bus anymore, there is less contending for bandwidth than there used to be so the net result is probably "it is the same."

ingeborgdot
03-09-2010, 11:55 AM
What does this say about the lan on my computer?

Onboard LAN 2 - Realtek RTL8110SC - PCI Gigabit Ethernet controller
Is that saying it is a PCI onboard controller? Would that only give it pci speeds?

imagoon
03-09-2010, 12:10 PM
What does this say about the lan on my computer?

Onboard LAN 2 - Realtek RTL8110SC - PCI Gigabit Ethernet controller
Is that saying it is a PCI onboard controller? Would that only give it pci speeds?

It might be. The PCI bus is faster than 1gig ethernet anyway so it isn't a bottleneck.

ingeborgdot
03-09-2010, 12:59 PM
that means your "onboard" ethernet is not chipset-powered at all, because the chipset does not support onboard ethernet. So your motherboard put an extra chip on the PCB that incorporates an ethernet NIC and PHY - and connects that to your PC via the PCI bus. It would be the same as using a 5-dollar realtek PCI-card.

Using PCI either for storage or networking is bad for performance. If both are on PCI its a nightmare with very low performance.

This was sent to me. I really think it is the main problem. If not, I will let you know.

imagoon
03-09-2010, 01:45 PM
that means your "onboard" ethernet is not chipset-powered at all, because the chipset does not support onboard ethernet. So your motherboard put an extra chip on the PCB that incorporates an ethernet NIC and PHY - and connects that to your PC via the PCI bus. It would be the same as using a 5-dollar realtek PCI-card.

Using PCI either for storage or networking is bad for performance. If both are on PCI its a nightmare with very low performance.

This was sent to me. I really think it is the main problem. If not, I will let you know.

Ok what are you trying to gain here? For home, built in NIC meet the requirements of 99% of the users out there. Most business PC's also use the same built in chips. Ethernet from one to one device will rarely if ever max out the the line. The line can't ever max out the PCI bus.

Now that next part is something to thing about. If the SATA controllers on your PC share the same PCI bus as the NIC then you can have contention because 2 high speed devices are sharing the bus and between them they can exceed the limits of the bus. However, your computer can have more than one PCI bus that can be tied together in several fashions. Also another thing to look out for, PCI-E appears to the system as a PCI bus. It is emulated at the logical level. Go in to device manager and do a "show devices by connection" and see how the system thinks everything is laid out. Everything will be under "PCI Bus."

If you see something like
PCI bus -> bridge chip -> Onboard NIC, Storage controller (they will look like they are attached) then yes they are sharing. If you see something like:

PCI Bus -> Bridge chip -> Nic
PCI Bus -> Storage controller

Then they are not likely sharing the same bus.

EDIT:

You mentioned 90MB / sec up top... that is "damn good" for a home network.

You may need to step back to the basics. Disable Jumbo frames on all devices. you don't need them. They are more hassle than they are worth for home. Make sure you have a quality switch in the mix. Make sure *all* the cables are good. Purchased patch cables, properly installed keystones / jacks if applicable.

Make sure that all the drivers are up to date on all devices. System board and nic drivers especially.

ingeborgdot
03-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Any ideas for the switch? I have two but if need be will switch the switch.

imagoon
03-09-2010, 03:48 PM
Little guys like this:

http://www.procurve.com/products/switches/HP_ProCurve_1810G_Switch_Series/overview.htm

Work really well. Some of the cheaper dell switches (used only as unmanaged switches...) work really well also. I use Dell 2724's as unmanaged switches at temporary job trailers with good success. The Dells have a managed mode but run away screaming. The dells have a flip switch to turn off the 'brains' and when I do that they tend to be very solid.

ingeborgdot
03-12-2010, 08:34 PM
This is what I bought. The Intel EXPI9301CT 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter. I have this nic card and it sure made a difference. The one nice thing it did was find that I had a bad cable. I never found that with anything else I had. With the new nic I got an extra 200Mbps and when it found the bad cable it gave me another 100Mbps. I just want to know if anyone has this card and how to tweak it. Man are there a lot of settings. I got two of them. One for each computer on the net. How does the master/slave work. There is also teaming. How do I use it and should I? If anyone has perfected any of these settings please help me out. Thanks.

imagoon
03-12-2010, 10:34 PM
Out of curiousity, did you try the old nic when you found out that layer one was faulty? I am not doubting a better card would give you and edge but I am guessing the real fix was replacing the bad cable. The nic just improved it a little more. You need a switch that supports teaming, also teaming wont give you 2 gig because each session will only go to one nic.

ingeborgdot
03-12-2010, 11:28 PM
I still have the other nic and tried a comparison. The new nic out performs the one by 250Mbps when I compare. The cable worked but was only letting stuff go at 100 instead of 1000. I got another 100Mbps with the new cable. I have gained 350Mbps now and it is running much better but I will always shoot for better.

ingeborgdot
03-12-2010, 11:30 PM
I don't expect it to give me 2 gig. I am always shooting for better though. Will the teaming give me any advantage that you know of? How would I know if the switch I has supports teaming or not?

ingeborgdot
03-13-2010, 10:20 AM
Little guys like this:

http://www.procurve.com/products/switches/HP_ProCurve_1810G_Switch_Series/overview.htm

Work really well. Some of the cheaper dell switches (used only as unmanaged switches...) work really well also. I use Dell 2724's as unmanaged switches at temporary job trailers with good success. The Dells have a managed mode but run away screaming. The dells have a flip switch to turn off the 'brains' and when I do that they tend to be very solid.

How would a ProCurve 1400 be as compared to the 1810? Just curious. I have an opportunity for a good buy on both of these? Or would you recommend the Dell first?

ingeborgdot
03-14-2010, 01:09 AM
Does anyone know how the ProCurve 1400 compares to the 1810? imagoon is taking the weekend off I guess and I want to order tomorrow if possible. From searches it looks good but I would like some first hand experience if possible. Thanks.

ingeborgdot
03-14-2010, 04:55 PM
How much more complicated is the 1810 to operate than the 1400? Thanks for answering all my questions.

ingeborgdot
03-16-2010, 08:23 PM
Well, I finally got a chance to put another computer on the other end of the line that was having problems and I find out I don't have to change my line. It was a whopping 89-91 MB/s to this other computer. I am wondering if the problem could be the computer itself or if it is that I am running vista and that computer had xp pro. The one I put in it's place had W7. Well, at least I don't need to drag new lines. Now I just need to try a computer with xp on it.