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KillerCharlie
02-12-2008, 12:32 AM
I'm badly in need of a new car. I really have my eye on the 2009 Subaru Forester which should be available in March. I think this vehicle fits me best but I don't really like previous years of the vehicle.

My question is this: in general, are new vehicles worth it? How much can you really save by buying used? It seems like cars depreciate really quickly the first couple years. Unfortunately if I got used, I couldn't get a used '09 model for at least a year. Sometimes it's better because of the warranty, but Subaru's warranty depends only on mileage, not what owner it is.

jagec
02-12-2008, 01:20 AM
IMHO new cars are almost never worth it. Exceptions might include things like Civics, where there's very little depreciation for the first couple of years, or Corollas, where currently there are a crapload of them sitting on dealer lots and so they are willing to make deals.

You can save as much as you like by buying used...depends on how old you want to go!

Scouzer
02-12-2008, 03:08 AM
I dunno. New cars are way more expensive than used if you've got CASH to buy, but not so much more expensive factoring financing.

If you have little to zero down doubled with 6-8% finance rates on most used cars, they aren't such a deal.

I've seen how some people treat their cars, I'm not sure if I want to end up with what they've done to it.

StageLeft
02-12-2008, 09:15 AM
People buy new because they want new. New are not worth it. Everybody in the world who buys used knows this. The more used cars I buy, despite easily being able to buy new, the more I know it's the right thing to do. $15k can buy me a 2-3 year old car that was $25k new and given longevity of cars now, why in the name of God and Joseph and Mary would I buy new?

Don't forget, as soon as you start driving it, it's used as well. Some cars drop in price like a rock, too. We bought a 1-2 year old Mazda MPV with 15k miles on it for $15,300 and had a 100k powertrain factory warranty on it. What does $15k new buy, a subcompact with power windows?

Scouzer
02-12-2008, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by: Skoorb
People buy new because they want new. New are not worth it. Everybody in the world who buys used knows this. The more used cars I buy, despite easily being able to buy new, the more I know it's the right thing to do. $15k can buy me a 2-3 year old car that was $25k new and given longevity of cars now, why in the name of God and Joseph and Mary would I buy new?

Don't forget, as soon as you start driving it, it's used as well. Some cars drop in price like a rock, too. We bought a 1-2 year old Mazda MPV with 15k miles on it for $15,300 and had a 100k powertrain factory warranty on it. What does $15k new buy, a subcompact with power windows?

At least when it's new you know how well you've taken care of it.

For example, here at work (an airport) there was an SUV sitting in the parking lot for three weeks. As I headed out to my car off shift, I noticed a guy was getting into it. It was -35 outside and it had been sitting three weeks. He fired it up, and IMMEDIATELY PUT IT INTO GEAR AND TOOK OFF! I have never heard a car make such horrible noises. It was billowing out smoke and steam like crazy.

When it's that cold, you need to let a car that's been run recently idle for a minute or two.... nevermind sitting three weeks.

It was a late model Chevy Equinox...not something you'd expect such shit treatment from.

That being said, there's not much of a fiscal argument in favour of new cars if you have the cash.... but if you don't have the cash and piece of mind is important to you, it works out pretty similar.

overst33r
02-12-2008, 09:31 AM
Generally, your best value will be a car that is 1-2 years old. It's basically brand new but you've avoided the largest depreciation.

DisgruntledVirus
02-12-2008, 09:57 AM
I buy new because I don't want the hassle of having somebody elses issues with the car. If I buy new I know what the cars been through, and I know full well the car will last me. Used makes sense if you can't afford new, and if you plan on running it into the ground. Me personally I would rather have new with my bumper-bumper warranty.

Funyuns101
02-12-2008, 10:03 AM
I pretty much agree w/all of the above. If you end up buying a 1-2 year old used Honda/Toyota (Acura/Lexus) then you should more than likely be fine and save $1000s of the initial depreciation.
Buying new will give you peace of mind and let you "break in" the engine.

Jeff7181
02-12-2008, 10:56 AM
I got my first new car last fall... it'll probably be my last new car too. Not that I don't like it, you just get more bang for your buck with a used car. I just wanted to have a brand new car at least one in my life, and right now I can afford it, so I got one. :)

desy
02-12-2008, 11:55 AM
I've had 4 new vehicles and 5 used vehicles.

Arguments both ways as to why you'd want to do it that way, 3 of the new ones were cause I could write-off their use.
But there's nothing like driving new, and financially isn't the only reason people buy cars.
If it was the world would drive Civics, instead of the over 400 choices we have in NA

melijak
02-12-2008, 12:42 PM
The first 3 years are the best in a car's live.
I wouldn't mind getting a used daily driver from a family member that I know well, but since I like performence cars, I buy new. These are usually can get beat up easily. I got burned on used cars before. I don't mind paying for a little piece of mind, besides I don't look at cars as transportation.

DisgruntledVirus
02-12-2008, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by: melijak
The first 3 years are the best in a car's live.
I wouldn't mind getting a used daily driver from a family member that I know well, but since I like performence cars, I buy new. These are usually can get beat up easily. I got burned on used cars before. I don't mind paying for a little piece of mind, besides I don't look at cars as transportation.

Amen to that. I look at a vehicle as something that gets me where I need to get, but I also view it as I should have fun doing it. Could a used 2006 car do the same thing? You bet it could. Me personally however I would rather buy new, know everything that happens to it (make sure it gets in to oil changes on time, etc), and buy a new car that I have from the day it is owned by an individual.

I do not look at a car as just transportation. I look at a car as where I spend a decent amount of my time (to/from work and school, plus I usually drive when friends and I go places except the rare time its drinking then somebody else is DD ;)), and I want to enjoy the many hours I spend in my car, not hate them. Are cars bad investments? You bet they are. Are new cars even worse investments? For sure. But who buys a car for investment purposes?

imported_K3N
02-12-2008, 01:09 PM
new cars are a waste of money imo, take care of the car and it'll take care of you. 15k will get you what? a new toyota yaris? why do that, when you could get a 2 year old car that still has manufacturer warranty and performs much better for the same price? like a civic..

fstime
02-12-2008, 01:24 PM
CPO ftw

dainthomas
02-12-2008, 01:36 PM
I got an 04 F150 for almost ten grand cheaper than I'd have paid for it new. Got a six year warranty from my CU for a thousand. I came out way ahead and don't have to sweat it if a head gasket blows or something.

JeffreyLebowski
02-12-2008, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by: Funyuns101
I pretty much agree w/all of the above. If you end up buying a 1-2 year old used Honda/Toyota (Acura/Lexus) then you should more than likely be fine and save $1000s of the initial depreciation.
Buying new will give you peace of mind and let you "break in" the engine.

Engine break in is a myth. I've had tons of new vehicles and I just drive them like I would any other vehicle. The only break in that is happening is some metal burrs and what not will be in the 1st couple of oil changes, and that's going to happen regardless.

As far as buying new or used, it really breaks down to 2 things. Can you afford to buy new? and do you want to sit on a cloth seat that someone else has farted in?

I'll buy used because I'm a cheap bastard. I just recently got a used 06 Silverado LT for $17K and an 06 Toyota mini van for the woman for $18K. The truck had 50K miles on it, but I know Chevy's and they will last a lifetime.

JeffreyLebowski
02-12-2008, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Me personally however I would rather buy new, know everything that happens to it (make sure it gets in to oil changes on time, etc), and buy a new car that I have from the day it is owned by an individual.




Except assholes like me that go test drive vehicles on their lunch break and drive them like they stole them. I know a few cars at the Ford dealer down the street will be sold with tires with flat spots since I like checking the braking ability. :)

PingSpike
02-12-2008, 03:01 PM
The only time this doesn't seem to make sense is when you're buying a honda or toyota. I always see a lot of people saying to "buy a 2 year old one and saves thousands!" The trouble is, everyone else already thought of that...so now 2 year old hondas don't depreciate and you might as well spring the extra chump change and buy a new one. Outside of the Japanese brands however, the prices do still plunge into the toilet the moment they're driven off the lot.

We've got a new (was new anyway) hyundai elantra that I got for like 14 OTD. The 10 year warranty made it seem like a good deal to me. However, I think in the future I'm just going to buy used. Most automakers offer a pretty lame warranty, and if I'm going to be stuck with the repair bills after 3 years I may as well not pay thousands more for the car in the first place.

But I'm pretty utilitarian with my cars...they're just a means to an end, and a big pain in the ass half the time to me.

steppinthrax
02-12-2008, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by: PingSpike
The only time this doesn't seem to make sense is when you're buying a honda or toyota. I always see a lot of people saying to "buy a 2 year old one and saves thousands!" The trouble is, everyone else already thought of that...so now 2 year old hondas don't depreciate and you might as well spring the extra chump change and buy a new one. Outside of the Japanese brands however, the prices do still plunge into the toilet the moment they're driven off the lot.

We've got a new (was new anyway) hyundai elantra that I got for like 14 OTD. The 10 year warranty made it seem like a good deal to me. However, I think in the future I'm just going to buy used. Most automakers offer a pretty lame warranty, and if I'm going to be stuck with the repair bills after 3 years I may as well not pay thousands more for the car in the first place.

But I'm pretty utilitarian with my cars...they're just a means to an end, and a big pain in the ass half the time to me.

IMO New cars are a waste of money. Many people buy new cars are the same people who never worked on a car or know very little about the internal mechanics. There is little difference between a used Whateverbrand with 30 to 40 or so thousand and a brand new car. The car's first part of depreciation has been knocked off therefore you are getting a great value. And you are also not required to have both comprehensive and liability insurance. Generally used cars are purchased by private seller so you don't have to worry about all the trickery bullshit dealers will do.

PricklyPete
02-12-2008, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: PingSpike
The only time this doesn't seem to make sense is when you're buying a honda or toyota. I always see a lot of people saying to "buy a 2 year old one and saves thousands!" The trouble is, everyone else already thought of that...so now 2 year old hondas don't depreciate and you might as well spring the extra chump change and buy a new one. Outside of the Japanese brands however, the prices do still plunge into the toilet the moment they're driven off the lot.

We've got a new (was new anyway) hyundai elantra that I got for like 14 OTD. The 10 year warranty made it seem like a good deal to me. However, I think in the future I'm just going to buy used. Most automakers offer a pretty lame warranty, and if I'm going to be stuck with the repair bills after 3 years I may as well not pay thousands more for the car in the first place.

But I'm pretty utilitarian with my cars...they're just a means to an end, and a big pain in the ass half the time to me.

IMO New cars are a waste of money. Many people buy new cars are the same people who never worked on a car or know very little about the internal mechanics. There is little difference between a used Whateverbrand with 30 to 40 or so thousand and a brand new car. The car's first part of depreciation has been knocked off therefore you are getting a great value. And you are also not required to have both comprehensive and liability insurance. Generally used cars are purchased by private seller so you don't have to worry about all the trickery bullshit dealers will do.

Or you've never seen the oil changed on a car where the owner neglected to change it for 30K miles...and yes...that happens more than you think. I'm not arguing that new is the only way to go, but I totally respect someone's desire to get a machine they have had full responsibility for.

jagec
02-12-2008, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Or you've never seen the oil changed on a car where the owner neglected to change it for 30K miles...and yes...that happens more than you think. I'm not arguing that new is the only way to go, but I totally respect someone's desire to get a machine they have had full responsibility for.

All of these things leave obvious signs to the trained person. If you can't tell whether a car has been abused when you test drive it and look at the engine, take it in for a mechanic's inspection.

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
IMO New cars are a waste of money. Many people buy new cars are the same people who never worked on a car or know very little about the internal mechanics. There is little difference between a used Whateverbrand with 30 to 40 or so thousand and a brand new car. The car's first part of depreciation has been knocked off therefore you are getting a great value. And you are also not required to have both comprehensive and liability insurance. Generally used cars are purchased by private seller so you don't have to worry about all the trickery bullshit dealers will do.

Collision coverage is the expensive stuff. Everyone should have comprehensive, it's dirt cheap and it'll cover you if your car gets stolen or broken into.

vi edit
02-12-2008, 04:10 PM
Completely car dependent.

Foresters actually keep their value pretty well, and are very hard to find used, at least around the midwest.

All I can find around here are ones that are 4+ years old and have over 100k on the clock. Dealers are still asking for $12k plus for them.

A new one can be had for around $18k sometimes, depending on incentives. In that case, the extra $6k between new and used is worth it to me.

KillerCharlie
02-12-2008, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Completely car dependent.

Foresters actually keep their value pretty well, and are very hard to find used, at least around the midwest.

All I can find around here are ones that are 4+ years old and have over 100k on the clock. Dealers are still asking for $12k plus for them.

A new one can be had for around $18k sometimes, depending on incentives. In that case, the extra $6k between new and used is worth it to me.


Subarus are way more popular out here than the midwest for some reason, so it's usually not too hard to find used ones. I just wish the 2009 Forester came out a year earlier...

steppinthrax
02-13-2008, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: PingSpike
The only time this doesn't seem to make sense is when you're buying a honda or toyota. I always see a lot of people saying to "buy a 2 year old one and saves thousands!" The trouble is, everyone else already thought of that...so now 2 year old hondas don't depreciate and you might as well spring the extra chump change and buy a new one. Outside of the Japanese brands however, the prices do still plunge into the toilet the moment they're driven off the lot.

We've got a new (was new anyway) hyundai elantra that I got for like 14 OTD. The 10 year warranty made it seem like a good deal to me. However, I think in the future I'm just going to buy used. Most automakers offer a pretty lame warranty, and if I'm going to be stuck with the repair bills after 3 years I may as well not pay thousands more for the car in the first place.

But I'm pretty utilitarian with my cars...they're just a means to an end, and a big pain in the ass half the time to me.

IMO New cars are a waste of money. Many people buy new cars are the same people who never worked on a car or know very little about the internal mechanics. There is little difference between a used Whateverbrand with 30 to 40 or so thousand and a brand new car. The car's first part of depreciation has been knocked off therefore you are getting a great value. And you are also not required to have both comprehensive and liability insurance. Generally used cars are purchased by private seller so you don't have to worry about all the trickery bullshit dealers will do.

Or you've never seen the oil changed on a car where the owner neglected to change it for 30K miles...and yes...that happens more than you think. I'm not arguing that new is the only way to go, but I totally respect someone's desire to get a machine they have had full responsibility for.

You go through a process of checking out the vehicle you want to buy. Both internally and externally. You reserach car fax for accident history and check out the engine. I generally won't buy cars that have more then 70 on them. I try to stay below 50. People who abuse their cars also show other signs of abuse externally that you can see. Pulling out the dipstick and checking the colors of different fluids is important. Checking the undercarriage and driving the car around and checking transmission shifting is also good. I've dealt with a lot of private sales that I could tell within the first few mins were bullshit (brown tranny fluid, black oil, shotty paint job, flooded veh). People who make bad decisions in buying a used car are just as likely to make a bad decision buying a new car. Because these people make bad decisions in life on a general basis anyway.

sindows
02-13-2008, 10:02 AM
I'm a cheap SOB so you usually don't hear something like this from me but my views has been proven wrong over and over again. So I will misquote someone and say the following:

Spend the extra money and cry only once. Save the money and cry over and over :)

senseamp
02-13-2008, 10:59 AM
Since you have your heart set on a 2009 new model car, buy new. Duh!
Plus you may wait 2 years only to find out that resale hasn't dropped that much. For example, I testdrove a 2004 Mazda3 when it came out in 2003, but decided to wait for a couple years to get it lightly used. Well in 2005, I looked at the market and bought a brand new 2006 Mazda3, because 2004s didn't depreciate enough to justify buying used.
Also, understand that if you buy a new car for 25K and it depreciates to 20K after 2 years, or you buy a used car for 15K and it depreciates to 10K during the same period, you could have been driving a new car under full warranty for same depreciation hit as the used one, even though the purchase price of the used one is much lower. It's all about the slope of the depreciation curve during the time interval.

eleison
02-13-2008, 12:12 PM
The best thing to do is to buy new and drive it into the ground. That way, the depreciation hit is spread out for the lifetime of the vehicle, not just for the time that you own it which could be a couple of years if you decide to buy and resale.

If you want to buy a new car year after year, don't buy new or use.... lease.


If you want to buy a car you cannot really afford, buy use... its a gamble but. Worse case is that you might have to take public transportation to work if it breaks down.

If you want to save money, buy a kia or a hyndai... don't expect chicks to dig you, but with the extra money, you can hire strippers whenever you feel bad for buying such a cheap car.