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View Full Version : Anyone think Iraq's Air Force will try and fight when we surround Baghdad?


Pastfinder
03-26-2003, 07:03 PM
Iraq has some solid aircraft (MiG-29, MiG-25, ect.). I'm wondering if when we surround and begin pounding Baghdad if the Iraqi Air Force will try some sort of suicidal attack against coaltion air forces...

Grey
03-26-2003, 07:14 PM
im sure the airfields have long since been ruined with cluster bombs

Pastfinder
03-26-2003, 07:18 PM
maybe, but how many of the aircraft have been targeted? Cluster bomb damage cane be repaired quickly

Alistar7
03-26-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by: Grey
im sure the airfields have long since been ruined with cluster bombs

as have the planes, they showed BDA video of planes being hit..

Pastfinder
03-26-2003, 07:32 PM
nuts, I wanted to see the USAF get some air to air kills...

UltraQuiet
03-26-2003, 07:37 PM
I think most (if not all) of the Iraq air force was flown to Iran in the last gulf war. Iran said thank you and has not been inclined to return the planes. Ha Ha.

If Iraq does have any planes left and they do mange to get off the ground both the crew and the aircraft will have very short, exciting lives.

Ylen13
03-26-2003, 07:39 PM
they have about 100 or so that is in flyable condition. Chances of them getting off the ground is somewhat good but they are no match for american pilots and airplanes then again like in ground war anything can happen and they maybe able to shoot down one or two american air planes before being shutdown.

Bulk Beef
03-26-2003, 07:40 PM
Iran said thank you and has not been inclined to return the planes.I think there about a hundred fairly new Migs in Iran. Can you imagine what the storage bill is on those things?

BCYL
03-26-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by: Ylen13
they have about 100 or so that is in flyable condition. Chances of them getting off the ground is somewhat good but they are no match for american pilots and airplanes then again like in ground war anything can happen and they maybe able to shoot down one or two american air planes before being shutdown.

Iraq's air force has NO chance... Their airfields have either been taken over by allied force or bombed to hell... Even IF they have a usable airfield and planes left, Central command already said they are closely monitoring anything that MIGHT take off... I doubt they would last long if they try to take off...

Jmman
03-26-2003, 07:47 PM
No.......

Yax
03-26-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Iraq has some solid aircraft (MiG-29, MiG-25, ect.). I'm wondering if when we surround and begin pounding Baghdad if the Iraqi Air Force will try some sort of suicidal attack against coaltion air forces...

If they have aircrafts, why aren't they using them now?

Pastfinder
03-26-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by: BCYL

Originally posted by: Ylen13
they have about 100 or so that is in flyable condition. Chances of them getting off the ground is somewhat good but they are no match for american pilots and airplanes then again like in ground war anything can happen and they maybe able to shoot down one or two american air planes before being shutdown.

Iraq's air force has NO chance... Their airfields have either been taken over by allied force or bombed to hell... Even IF they have a usable airfield and planes left, Central command already said they are closely monitoring anything that MIGHT take off... I doubt they would last long if they try to take off...


Don't be too overconfident. Once one lets their guard down, that is when the enemy will strike...

rufruf44
03-26-2003, 08:02 PM
Remember what Rumsfeld said? "Its not air superiority, we have total dominance in the air
Iraqi air force = non existant at this point.

Pastfinder
03-26-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by: rufruf44
Remember what Rumsfeld said? "Its not air superiority, we have total dominance in the air
Iraqi air force = non existant at this point.

Ya, I just want to try and get some sort of thread going by proposing this idea...

Red Dawn
03-26-2003, 08:22 PM
One of the News Channel Generals said "If they Fly they die" I guess the Wogs who are smart enough to Fly a Jet are also smart enough to protect their assests.

BCYL
03-26-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by: Pastfinder

Originally posted by: BCYL

Originally posted by: Ylen13
they have about 100 or so that is in flyable condition. Chances of them getting off the ground is somewhat good but they are no match for american pilots and airplanes then again like in ground war anything can happen and they maybe able to shoot down one or two american air planes before being shutdown.

Iraq's air force has NO chance... Their airfields have either been taken over by allied force or bombed to hell... Even IF they have a usable airfield and planes left, Central command already said they are closely monitoring anything that MIGHT take off... I doubt they would last long if they try to take off...


Don't be too overconfident. Once one lets their guard down, that is when the enemy will strike...

That's the whole point... Central Command ISNT being overconfident... They are closely monitoring anything that takes off... The Iraqis know this, so I dont think they will attempt to use whatever air power they have left...

A fighter jet trying to take off isnt exactly hard to detect...

Tripleshot
03-26-2003, 08:41 PM
Anything leaving the ground in Iraq that is not part of the coallition, is a target. How on earth are they going to get airborn? The skys over Iraq are owned by the USAF and British coallition. There is no airspace for a mig to fly in, let alone get six feet off the ground before being lasered in.

Jmman
03-26-2003, 08:45 PM
I am just about as worried about the Iraqi Airforce as I am about the Iraqi navy......;)

Aceshigh
03-26-2003, 08:49 PM
I read they only have around 30 planes now, mostly soviet migs, and their condition and ability to fly is questionable.

jjones
03-26-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by: Jmman
No.......
That sums it up nicely.

HappyNic
03-26-2003, 09:03 PM
But if they have underground runways then they can probably get some jet off the ground before the US can do anything. But with all those Max out Patriot missles, US and Britsh jets everyway, I don't expect for them to get far. Most likely their Jets would be use for Air to ground , aganist the M1A1 Abram.

BCYL
03-26-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by: Aceshigh
I read they only have around 30 planes now, mostly soviet migs, and their condition and ability to fly is questionable.

I am surprise they still have 30 planes at this stage of the war... I would imagine almost all their planes would've been bombed during the first few days of the war...

Kraeji
03-26-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by: Pastfinder

Don't be too overconfident. Once one lets their guard down, that is when the enemy will strike...


We're overconfident..

But i bet those USAF generals arent. They probably are itching for some enemy migs to pop up and send out our finest for some dog fighting

Bartman39
03-26-2003, 11:14 PM
Finaly a clear prospective on the things... :D



I am just about as worried about the Iraqi Airforce as I am about the Iraqi navy......


Iraqi`s air force would have to blow up balloons and the navy would have to raise sail...

Red Dawn
03-26-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by: HappyNic
But if they have underground runways then they can probably get some jet off the ground before the US can do anything. But with all those Max out Patriot missles, US and Britsh jets everyway, I don't expect for them to get far. Most likely their Jets would be use for Air to ground , aganist the M1A1 Abram.
WTF, underground Runways? Ahahaha!

UltraQuiet
03-27-2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by: Jmman
I am just about as worried about the Iraqi Airforce as I am about the Iraqi navy......;)

I don't know their Navy looks pretty lethal.

Iraq Navy (http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/DaveSohmer/iraqinavy.jpg)

rudder
03-27-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Iraq has some solid aircraft (MiG-29, MiG-25, ect.). I'm wondering if when we surround and begin pounding Baghdad if the Iraqi Air Force will try some sort of suicidal attack against coaltion air forces...

All of Iraq has now been declared a no-fly zone. Anything that would even be able to get in the air would be quickly destroyed.

Conky
03-27-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am just about as worried about the Iraqi Airforce as I am about the Iraqi navy......;)

I don't know their Navy looks pretty lethal.

Iraq Navy (http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/DaveSohmer/iraqinavy.jpg)


LOL! :D

Queasy
03-27-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Iraq has some solid aircraft (MiG-29, MiG-25, ect.). I'm wondering if when we surround and begin pounding Baghdad if the Iraqi Air Force will try some sort of suicidal attack against coaltion air forces...

Should we change the name of suicide tactics like this from 'kamikaze attacks' to 'Dixie Chick attacks'?

MadRat
03-29-2003, 11:34 PM
Its not the 200 aircraft they are reported to have that scares me. Its the 600 helicopters that makes me concerned.

The only warplane they own that stands a chance on its own is the MiG-25, which they probably cannot fly due to lack of parts.

OFFascist
03-30-2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by: Jmman
No.......

ToBeMe
03-30-2003, 02:59 AM
ROFLMAO.........it's late and I didn't read the whole thread, but, no way in hell! It would be a suicide mission for them to even take off...........................

calpha
03-30-2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by: MadRat
Its not the 200 aircraft they are reported to have that scares me. Its the 600 helicopters that makes me concerned.

The only warplane they own that stands a chance on its own is the MiG-25, which they probably cannot fly due to lack of parts.

The Mig 25 is a bucket of bolts and turns like a land yacht. Mig 29's on teh other hand (especially the later models M I think) can be lethal to our F-15/F16s given the same pilot skill......but only in close quarter combat. Technology wise (avionics systems).....I doubt that theere'd even be a change of a dogfight....

Tehy might try to fly, but any pilot there knows it's suicide to go up.....which, could be their most fearsome asset if they chose to look at it that way. But I doubt a Mig could get any chance of posing a threat....even if they take to Kamikazee style assaults. They'd be blown up before they even got close to coalition forces.

Andrew111
03-30-2003, 08:18 AM
OMG, you guys are forgetting Iraq's ultralight aircraft.:Q Iraqi ultralights spotted over U.S. troops (http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1720421.php)

It's amazing they can actually get anyone to fly those things.....they may be harder to detect, but they would be extremely easy to bring down.

Mookow
03-30-2003, 08:22 AM
A better title would be: "Anyone think Iraq's Air Force will try and commit suicide when we surround Baghdad?"

MadRat
03-30-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by: calpha

The Mig 25 is a bucket of bolts and turns like a land yacht. Mig 29's on teh other hand (especially the later models M I think) can be lethal to our F-15/F16s given the same pilot skill......but only in close quarter combat. Technology wise (avionics systems).....I doubt that theere'd even be a change of a dogfight....

They might try to fly, but any pilot there knows it's suicide to go up.....which, could be their most fearsome asset if they chose to look at it that way. But I doubt a Mig could get any chance of posing a threat....even if they take to Kamikazee style assaults. They'd be blown up before they even got close to coalition forces.

I'm guessing that, without constant retraining, the MiG-29s are probably all incapacitated by now. They never had many MiG-29s and just over two dozen survived the original Gulf War. (Four escaped to Iran despite popular belief that lots of them did!) These aircraft are maintenance nightmares and require a disproportionate amount of expense to remain serviceable. Simpler designs like the MiG-23 and MiG-25 are still flightworthy. The Iraqi air force has conserved the MiG-25 assets since the end of the first Gulf War because of its unique ability to outrun most of the American air defenses, and even earlier this year demonstrated their continued use. They are believed to have a dozen working MiG-25s. The MiG-23s were what they used a few weeks back to intercept the pair of American U-2 spyplanes before the war, so we know some of them are flyable. It is believed that six dozen are available with one-quarter to one-third of them in working order.

What they have that is futile is a variety of old MiG, Xian, and Sukhoi aircraft. The french probably kept them furnished with parts for their five-and-a-half dozen Mirage F1s; and one pair intercepted one of the U-2s I mentioned earlier. They also have alot of MiG-21's, 120 made up of various export versions from China and Russia, that are likely to be flyable for some time. They also have a hand full of Sukhoi aircraft (Su-7/20/22) that are all likely out of spare parts because they had so many unique types and hardly any of one model. A little over a dozen Su-25s survived the Gulf War and a few may be flyable, but again they probably don't have the parts for them. None of the 9 medium bobmers in their inventory, from Tu-16s to Tu-22s are likely flyable. (Luckily two dozen Su-24s flew the coop to Iran for us!)

I don't believe the F1s or MiG-21/J7s are a large threat because of their limited ability to carry bombloads and the inventory of air-intercept missiles they are known to own. A majority of their air-intercept missiles are duds by now, at least as far as being in working order. The newest ones are very low performance models, making them a low threat on the grand scheme. Even if they had newer models the F1s they bought are very limited (optimized for ground attack) and their MiG-21/J7s are not exactly equipped for dogfights. (The MiG-21s only shot down a few Iranian F-4s in dogfights because the latter would try to retreat from gun engagements ignoring the missiles carried by the MiGs.)

The leadership has organized their fighters into just fourteen total sqaudrons, with half for ground attack and another for reconn, leaving very few for a role of intercept/air supremacy. They also treat fighters as fighter-bomber destroyers (pure interceptors) making it unlikely that they'd try to engage American planes in head-to-head combat. American pilots were surprised by the total lack of initiative by Iraqi pilots during the Gulf War. When Iraqi pilots improvised many flew into the ground, being totally unfamiliar with the concepts of air supremacy. (One American pilot did the same, his training being specialized for a ground attack role.) Its really easy to lose ones spatial awareness in air combat if a pilot hasn't been trained how to maintain himself.

mastertech01
03-30-2003, 11:02 AM
I think the bumper to bumper warranty has expired on most of thier fleet.

Mookow
03-30-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by: mastertech01
I think the bumper to bumper warranty has expired on most of thier fleet.

I think the original designers for most of their fleet have expired